Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater similar topic (m22 as center)

Ya, what Ken said. AFAIK, if you want to place them horizontally, you might as well get a VP 150.

Wow, thank you for all the replies and the welcome. As far as placement goes, I tried my usual spot, about a foot below my tv and also above the tv. Unfortunately I still got the same result. Also my old center channel, Polk csi3, seems to sound better with dialog to me which is where I find the vp150 to be off. To my knowledge the speakers are working properly. At this point I'm not sure what to do because I really love the m60's, but I don't think I can live with the center channel. I might be able to squeeze 2 m22's horizontally below my tv but how would I wire them out from the receiver? I have two unused channels since I only use 5.1, but would that mess things up as far as sending the right audio to the right speakers? Thanks.

Maybe order up a VP100 as it does sound ever so slightly different than the VP150, but also seems to have less placement issues regarding SQ as well. I have both and the VP100 is still a great center and is basically the M22 just not ported but designed to be placed on it's side.

I've used dual horizontal MTM centers for a long time -- MTMMTM -- and although I take a lot of cr@p whenever I post this, it works really well.

As many who want to teach me Loudspeakers 101 so accurately point out, long arrays of speakers tend to 'beam' -- the center lobe of the diffration pattern gets narrower, and the usual +/- 20 degree off axis seating recommendation that accompanies most horizontal MTM's shrinks.

But audio is all about compromises, and although you can notice differences in FR outside the center lobe more than with a single MTM by paying attention as you move from one seat to another, these differences are overwhelmed by the overall improvement in SQ provided by more radiating area and reduction in required excursion for a given SPL.

And once you start improving on the basic setup -- both speakers facing straight ahead and together -- and start angling then and spacing them to best cover your seating positions, you can almost always do better than a single unit (IMO).

This setup works well with 6.x" or smaller MTs, MTMs, or TMM's.
If you have the space, identical full range speakers in all positions is the way to go -- full range implying the ability to generate concert levels down to 40-50 Hz without distorting higher frequencies. If you don't have space for vertical designs, horizontal W T/M W designs do have an advantage in horizontal dispersion and distortion, but you have to pay for it.
And of course there are coaxial and full range driver systems.

If you have an acoustically designed room and have a large budget, you can do better (obviously). If you are after pin-point imaging any horizontal array is questionable. But for those of us who find the price/performance of quality two-way systems optimum and who have typical TV setups requring horizontal speakers, doubling the center can and does work.

As an added bonus, you have the thing that makes this work best -- an additional amp channel so you can power each speaker individually.

And -- I've NEVER heard an above-the-screen / below-the-screen setup work. Not only are the centers too far apart to integrate, but the different refection patterns from the floor and ceiling keep the sources "psychoacoustically distinct".

Finally to address the question you actually asked :), different voicing for the VP150 vs the M60s:

IF the difference you hear is in the lower midrange and bass, two ported M22's will get you closer to the 6.x" woofer in the M60s, but for best results you'll need banded or parametric EQ on the center channel -- and you are still going to need to cross to a sub by 80Hz.

Things you can try that don't cost any money:
Run you sub xo up to 100 Hz either on the VP150 alone or globally.
Play with any center channel EQ you have.

Thanks for sharing your experience. I doubt anyone here will give you crap revealing your non-standard center channel arrangement -- especially since you defended it so well.

Welcome, and stick around.

Yes, welcome GG, and certainly no crap. An observation might be that if you found the dual center to be of advantage while the horizontal configuration was something of a disadvantage, the next experiment(if you haven't done it)is to flip the centers onto their ends and try a dual vertical center, such as Mike Drew and some others here use.

John, I have tried vertical centers above the screen. It has not worked for me personally because I tend to place my TV's a little higher than many do. With the base of my centers over 5' in the air, moving the center of the sound source even higher away from the screen (MTM on end as opposed to MTM on it's side) tends to dissociate the sound more from the screen. Also, vertical orientaion reduces the sound radiating off the TV screen, which may improve frequency response depending on how much baffle step compensation was designd into the center speakers, but that reduction of the 'extended baffle' effect detaches the center sound from the screen even more.

Thanks for reminding me about dual vertical centers -- because of the factors above it's been a long time since I tried it. I'd certainly urge anyone to try vertical placements -- it's all about tradeoffs and the best way is to try things in your setup and see how they sound. My only point to the OP is not to be afraid of placing speakers side-by-side. The diffraction patterns that develop are certainly an imperfection to be aware of, but in everyday residential setups the benefits of multiple centers often outweigh that disadvantage.

Just curious if this is actual listening tests or just hearsay?

Edit: Nevermind, you have never heard that setup.

Well, I've never heard it either, but I'm gonna set it up and I think its the greatest one ever. All you guys that don't like it are stu... oh, never mind. Wrong forum.

If I can ever get proper connections between my pc and receiver, I'll let you all know how it sounds to me.

I've heard this setup many times in venues ranging from living rooms to home theaters to commercial listening rooms. And I've tried it many times myself, with different centers at different heights off the floor.

An above-below center setup is usually a subjective improvement over a single center setup when using 5.x" or 6.x" woofer centers in larger rooms and mid sized theater rooms, but does suffer from the problems I mentioned above (its all about tradeoffs).