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#211463 - 06/13/08 10:12 AM epic 60.500, sub just doesn't sound right :(
Hohlraum Offline
newbie

Registered: 06/13/08
Posts: 4
Loc: St. Louis, MO, USA
I have an epic 60.500 setup and the sub just _feels_ wrong. I can hear the sub kicking in long before I get any bass from the M60's. I've played around with the volume on the sub but it seems that if I turn the sub down then there isn't enough bass but if I turn it up its just obnoxious. The bass just sounds fake, loose and "vibratey." Like some punk kid with a bass kicker in his trunk removed all the weather stripping so it would rattle more. Here is my setup beyond the epic 60.500:

Receiver: Sony STR-DA5300ES
Primary Audio Source: Sony PlayStation 3 (games and blu-ray)

Receiver has speakers all set to small (this setting allows you to choose the cross over) and a cross over matching the sub (see below)

Sub and the receiver are currently set to a cross-over of 60 or 80 (I'll update my post with the exact setting when I get home. I'm nearly positive its 80).

Sub phase is 0 (I tried both and couldn't feel a difference) and trim is Flat. I've tried volume settings anywhere from 9 o'clock to 6 o'clock.

I'd sure like some advice.
_________________________
Axiom Epic 60.500 (7.1), Sony STR-5300ES, Samsung HL-S6188W, Dish ViP 622, Sony PlayStation 3, HTPC

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#211464 - 06/13/08 10:18 AM Re: epic 60.500, sub just doesn't sound right :( [Re: Hohlraum]
Hutzal Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 2102
Loc: Hollywood. (Canadian @ <3)
Buy an SPL meter and calibrate your whole system.
_________________________
Producer | Composer
www.robbhutzal.com

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#211480 - 06/13/08 11:31 AM Re: epic 60.500, sub just doesn't sound right :( [Re: Hutzal]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13337
Loc: Iowa
First of all you don't want to have your sub crossover in the loop since your receiver is handling the bass managment. Turn the crossover knob on the 500 to "bypass", or to the highest setting if you have a newer model. You don't want the sub on 80 and the receiver.

Also, did you set your delay (distance) setting in the receiver for all speakers?

Also, where is the sub positioned in relation to the other speakers? Did you also calibrate your speakers using the receiver pink noise to the same SPL?
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#211486 - 06/13/08 11:57 AM Re: epic 60.500, sub just doesn't sound right :( [Re: SirQuack]
Da_Gimp_Pimp Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 06/23/07
Posts: 4022
Loc: Sitting down somewhere
Try following the instructions on Mojo's post about halfway down the page on the link below. I have used it with my 80s and EP500. As far as a SPL meter goes I think it should be a mandatory purchase with a home theater, I don't know what I would do without mine. Sub positioning just as sirquack mentioned is extremely important. I had my EP500 positioned in the front left corner of my room and wasn't happy with the results because it was causing a localized effect with LFE. I recently relocated it to the side wall about 2 ft. behind my listening position and I noticed a huge difference. You could also try the subwoofer crawl Video or even the EP500 setup Video

Link

I'm not as knowledgeable as the other guys on this forum but hopefully that helps. Let us know how you make out.

Cam
_________________________
Does a dyslexic atheist not believe in dog?

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#211514 - 06/13/08 03:43 PM Re: epic 60.500, sub just doesn't sound right :( [Re: Da_Gimp_Pimp]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10398
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
My guess is the sub is too hot and you need to turn down the gain on it. As the others have mentioned you need an SPL meter and set the system up with all speakers to the same level, using the pink noise from the receiver or some test tone cd's/dvd/s like Avia. You can then adjust the sub up from there as most of us seem to run the sub a little hot by 2-5db.
_________________________
Jason
-----------------
TTTHHHPPPPPTTTT!

My HT

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#211538 - 06/13/08 09:56 PM Re: epic 60.500, sub just doesn't sound right :( [Re: Hohlraum]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10395
Hohlraum, welcome. You can be sure that you have an excellent sub in the EP500, as you'll find when it's properly set up. The first point, as Randy mentioned, is that setting the "crossover" control on the back of the sub to the same number doesn't result in "matching", but more likely a conflict. It should be set to bypass or turned all the way up so that it doesn't get in the way of the crossover that your 5300 is doing at 80Hz.

Secondly, unless your room is very large, you may find that setting the trim even to full(as I found to my surprise with my EP500)may result in a smoother overall room response.

As has already been mentioned, you should calibrate the speaker and sub levels, and this shouldn't be done by ear. Either use the auto-calibration system of your 5300 or a separate SPL meter which you'd use to make level adjustments manually. Either way should give good results.
_________________________
-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#211564 - 06/14/08 09:56 AM Re: epic 60.500, sub just doesn't sound right :( [Re: JohnK]
Nick B Offline
devotee

Registered: 08/05/06
Posts: 496
If you don't properly locate the sub in your room then it can sound terrible. You need to spend about $60 on tools to do this. First thing you is need a radio shack slp meter (just get the analog one for $40 since it is supposed to be more accurate than the digital anyways). Secondly, you need the Rives test cd 2.

http://www.rivesaudio.com/software/TestCD.html

Here is how you use these two things to find the best place in your room so that the bass sounds great and the sub sounds like an extension of the mains. I copied this from my post a few weeks ago.

The cd has test tracks that are corrected for the radio shack slp meter. So it is accurate below 100 Hz with the radio shack slp meter. Track 32 to 40 are the important ones to find the best location for your sub. Those tracks have the corrected 20, 25, 31.5, 40, 50 63 80 100 and 125 Hz test tones. So here is what you do: Set your sub crossover to bypass and your receiver crossover to 80 Hz. Find the 3 or 4 different locations that you want to put the sub and run the tone tests with the rives cd from tracks 32 to 40. You want to run the test tones with the phase at 0 and then 180 degrees in each location. Keep a chart of all of this information. The best location and phase will be the one with the flattest frequency response. If you have full range speakers (m60's or m80's) you could also test each location and phase with different crossovers for the front speakers as well, but only if your receiver allows for the mains to be crossed differently that the center and surrounds. For example in the first location run the test tones with 40Hz, 50Hz, 60Hz, 70Hz and 80Hz each with 0 and 180 deg on the phase setting. So that is a total of 10 runs that you have recorded in your chart for the first location. Repeat this with each possible sub location and pick out which location has the flattest frequency response in your range.

For my room I ran the tone tests for about 3 or 4 locations and it turned out that 80Hz worked out best for the crossover with my m22's. I tried 60 and 70Hz as well but the frequency response was a huge mess. The phase makes a huge difference when trying to match your mains to the sub. In one phase setting my frequency response was +/- 8 dB from 25 Hz to 160 Hz and with the other phase setting it is +/- 2dB. That is what my in room response is right now. You can't get much better that than since the tolerance on the Outlaw sub is only +/- 2dB. So all this work is definitely worth the effort.

- Nick

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#211778 - 06/17/08 09:19 AM Re: epic 60.500, sub just doesn't sound right :( [Re: Nick B]
Joey Offline
old hand

Registered: 06/08/07
Posts: 85
Loc: Rossford, OH
One point not mentioned here is that when you set the distance from your sub to your listening position, add no more than 10 feet! I know it sounds strange but you do mention that the sub kicks in too early and it may be because you have it set too far away which is not good. I discovered this important point through years of research on various forums. So give it a try. If you set the sub distance too close, it may fire too late, too far away and it will fire too early, 10 feet over what it actually is seems to work great. ;\) YMMV
_________________________
"Tis better to desire that which you do not have, than to have that which you do not desire!"

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#211783 - 06/17/08 09:48 AM Re: epic 60.500, sub just doesn't sound right :( [Re: Joey]
Murph Offline
axiomite

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 6835
Loc: PEI, Canada
I'd also guess it's being run a bit hot. It has great protection circuitry but I had to learn that sometimes you can actually get not only cleaner but stronger bass by turning it down to the magic number on the dial.

But, since it's brand new, check the simple things and make sure none of the hex bolts holding the port and amp tightly in place have not become loose. Also check the port for obstructing objects, like stuffed animals. Ya, it happened to me.

If all else fails, give Axiom a call. They will work with you to resolve the issue one way or another.


Edited by Murph (06/17/08 09:49 AM)
_________________________
With great power comes Awesome irresponsibility.

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#211912 - 06/17/08 05:04 PM Re: epic 60.500, sub just doesn't sound right :( [Re: Murph]
cop1s Offline
regular

Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 6
I had the same problem a month ago and I was quite despaired . I did a lot of 'crawl around on your hands and knees ' , but when I was putting the sub at the supposed right place , it was still boomy and vibrating . The sub was always in a 90 degrees plan from the front wall or the side wall or even the back wall .

But, Saturday , a miracle happened !!!
I put it at 35 degrees on the side wall and approximatively 1' in front of the M60 . No more vibrations , very punchy and beautiful . So , depending of your room , the position is crucial . So , try it everywhere and in every angle .
Good luck ...

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