Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners System upgrade

This is a copy/paste from another forum, I figured I would paste here to see what owners of the speakers I am thinking about purchasing think....

I am trying to decide what to upgrade when I actually can afford it.


My current system is:
Receiver - Onkyo TX-SR602 - http://www.us.onkyo.com/model.cfm?m=TX-SR602&p=i&class=Receiver

L/R - Pioneer S-H253B-K - http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/S...K.Support?tab=F

Center, Surround L/R, Rear Center - Polk Audio R15 - http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/products/individual/bookshelf/r15/

Subwoofer - SVS PB10-ISD - basically... http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-10nsd.cfm

DVD/BR Player - Playstation 3
Game System - Wii
Game System - Xbox

Junk cable box

TV - Pitiful 19" CRT


Of course if I could afford to, as many of us here probably would, I would end up getting a full set of RBH speakers and the separates to power them.... but since that isn't an option.... I am considering getting either the VP150 center from axiom ( http://www.axiomaudio.com/vp150.html ) or the M80's. I am guessing one of those two upgrades would be the most beneficial.

I could get the center channel much sooner than the floorstanding ones. Right now I am in an apartment so the subwoofer is already more than enough. No one is in the next apartment so I was able to go over into there with my PS3 remote.... I could hear all the lyrics from music in 2.1 mode perfectly clearly with the receiver at -20dB to -15dB (calibrated approximate reference)

The room is L shaped, about 2200 cubic feet, but I hope to be able to use it if I move into a larger place.

I think the answer to your question depends mostly on your listening habits, your music preferences and whether you do more movie/tv watching or music listening.

I don't own the VP150. I have the VP100. I wish I went for the beast when I had the chance. But that's a different story. If you do a lot of movie watching, etc., then the Center might be the best place to upgrade first. A ton of sound information comes out of that speaker when watching TV, from dialogue to on screen effects. You probably already know this, though.

Note that the M80s are pretty power hungry, and take a 4 ohm load. You Pios probably take an 8 ohm load. Basically, check your receiver before you upgrade to M80s. Or check out the M60s (which I have and love).

I guess my advice is to upgrade the center first, then follow it with the M80s, then consider the QS8s - the QS8's totally rock, by the way. The best surround speakers I have ever heard.

Then again, perhaps I would buy a new TV first... That popped out at me as a more apparent weak link in your system than anything else (your lack of any Axiom products aside).

Good Call Capn.

Improving the rest would be nice to do but upgrading the TV will produce the most instant gratification.

Yeah, I had considered the same on the TV, but considering 1) The TV options I would pick would take quite some time to save up for and 2) I don't have the credit rating to just finance it.... was thinking maybe going ahead with a cheaper purchase such as the center channel... (Would also maybe give me a chance to see the quality of the axiom speakers without risking having to spend a ton to ship them back)....

For movies the TV doesn't bother me too much, but when I have to read something designed for large HD screens (most modern games) it drives me insane.

I mostly use the system for movies and TV anymore, if I do listen to music in front of all the speakers it is typically in a DSP mode like all channel output so I would still see a benefit from the center.

Just thought to note.... I am a little concerned about the 4 ohm but I am almost positive the 602 is rated for it.... Either way it has handled a LOT more than it will have to here. The SVS sub (sorry guys) seems to of taken a ton of the load off the main speakers/receiver (and when I was still living with my parents it also caused the siding to rattle a few times...)

Not to dissuade you in any way, but have considered saving up and enjoying a little delayed gratification. I cringe when I hear you talking about financing consumer electronics.

I meant I do not want to finance it as well as I couldn't even if I wanted to LOL

I agree on the TV first. Have you considered something like RP? You get a lot of bang for the buck there so a 50" tv would not set you back much more than M80s. This is what I did. I upgraded the TV first because my son and I like to watch movies on the weekend. Mind you, I was using a 19" CRT so that was more of an upgrade.

I don't know what those Pioneer speakers sound like, but if you are 50/50 music/TV or more, I would go with the M80s first. They will have by far the biggest impact on music.

If the focus is more on movies and there are lots of people watching (bodies outside the sweet spot) then I would go for the center channel first.

If there are just two of you watching movies most of the time, I think you could get away with using your receiver and the M80s to create a phantom center.

Edit: Oh wait, you are using a 19" TV. TV first!! I picked up my Sony 50A2020 for $1,400 as they were being discontinued. Coulda picked it up for 1100 if I was willing to wait past Christmas.

Sorry, should have asked about the budget. buying one or two pieces at a time is a great option and extends the fun and excitement for a while.

I'd have to vote TV first as well.. after going from a 27" CRT to a 50" plasma.

Even a 27" no-name CRT from Wallmart($200-$300) or a 32" LCD TV for maybe 500-700 will really change your gaming/movie experience compared to a 19" CRT

+1 for the TV.

Went from a 19" TV to a 50" LCDRP and it was a huge improvement!

I now want a 60-65" 1080p LCD TV but looks like I have to wait until they come down in price!

In August 2005 I paid $4500US for my Samsung, a 61" 1080p (hah! -- only on VGA input) DLP, HLR6178W I think. Comparable units seem to be all of $1500 these days. I've been generally pleased with it, but do find myself wishing they'd had the 67" in stock, or that the 71" hadn't been something like twice the price.

So since everyone seems to suggest tv... if I do go that way would you guys recommend LCD, Plasma, or DLP Rear Projection? Also have considered front projection but to get a proper setup it would probably cost me too much.

I watch a lot of regular tv and movies. Will probably be playing video games and maybe running a PC into it nearly as often.

rear projection units such as DLP or LCDRP have a great cost/size benefit. While the viewing angles on my LCD RP are not as great as a flat panel LCD, the picture is still really good, and I was able to get a 50" for less than the price of a 32" lcd flat panel at the time.

paid about 1700 after tax about 2 years ago for my 1080i LCD rp sony kdfe50a10. at that time, a 40" lcd flat panel from sony was nearly double that price.

I prefer the picture of the plasma over all other comers. To me, it looks more like the tube tvs I grew up watching (which is a good thing). When the picture breaks up (which is it bound to do on occasion, the plasma goes a little "soft" instead of pixelating into a checkerboard mess like I have seen on some LCD and DLP sets. Nowadays, too, there are some really great deals to be had on "off brand" plasmas. Often-times (make sure you do your research before you pull the trigger on this one, though), the plasma medium made for Sony and for Advent, for example, may actually be made by the same manufacturer to the same specs. Processors and other important bits will be better in the Sony, giving you a superior overall picture, but the point is that the off brand stuff can still give you great results - maybe at the cost of some fancy features that you may or may not use very often.

If space behind the set isn't an issue, then you really can't beat your dollar for screen size punch that you get with DLP. Most of the problems associated with screen door and rainbow effect have been minimized to a degree that, unless you're looking for it, you won't have a problem with it.

For me, LCD is a nice compromise if space and sex appeal (i.e. hanging it on the wall) are issues and your budget won't support plasma prices.

Running a PC into any of these sets should not be a problem. Most these days have PC Inputs. Check before you buy if this is a necessity. If you run XP and have an nVidia card, there are some great tools for managing the overscan on your TV so that the windows bars aren't cut off. Also, in the rare chance that you fall in love with a set without a PC input, there are converters that can be purchased for not too much that will allow you to send your laptop or CPU video out onto an HDMI or a component video in on the TV.

It's True, most computers these days have a Digital output (DVI/HDMI) that can be accepted by the HDTV via HDMI or DVI-->HDMI quite easily. In the case of my Macbook to 50" RP LCD avsforum members had gone through and found the right settings to make the computer appear almost pixel to pixel perfect on it. These days that sort of thing isn't a big issue. And if you have a RGB/VGA input on the TV, it's just that much easier.

I agree with the captain, the best bang for the buck, if you have the space, is RP.

I might have considered plasma, except that I spend a lot of time on my computer and, although the risk is greatly reduced from early generations, burn in can still be an issue.

LCD had improved in leaps and bounds. I havn't really looked at current gen, but around last christmas, I coudn't tell much difference in picture quality between the best LCD and the best Plasma. Black levels are still a little better on plasma, but not much.

Ok, and for the same price range.... rear projection vs front projection?

you mean you want to debate between a TV and a projector?

IF you get a projector you are going to have to buy a screen seperate, which can cost you several hundred dollars at the very least.

I'd suggest you look at some RP DLP models.

Mucho more $ for front projection to get to to good quality 1080p and you need a light controlled environment. Lots more than M80s or an RPTV.

probably $3500 for 1080p projector plus the screen....

just a guess though.

You can get a good tv for much less than that

1080p is nice for front PJ. But it is not absolutely necessary.

A decent PJ and screen can run you less than a $1,000. New cables will probably be required.

I got the Mitsubishi HC-1500 (720p) for under $700 and my screen for less than $250 - it's a fixed frame white screen with a black velvet border.

1080p will cost about $1000 to $1500 more. The screen won't change. Carada and some other companies make great screens. But in a dark room (especially given today's high contrast, generously bright projectors), a high gain screen is not really necessary. The big problem with PJ is the throw distance and the room's light control. If you've got a pretty straight shot, roughly 12 to 15 feet from the screen, perpendicular thereto, and a room with plenty of black out curtains, it can definitely work. 100" is a thing to behold.

HD stuff looks great. DVD looks a little fuzzy when it's blown up to 100". Blu Ray looks absolutely gorgeous. I'm sure 1080p projector would look even better with Blu Ray, but for my money, right now, I think I will be hard pressed to upgrade before the 1080p prices come way down. Big Screen projectors, pretty much, though require a Blu Ray player to really enjoy them.

I think I mentioned above, though. The projector is a great experience for watching movies - like you're at the movies, in fact. It's a bit ridiculous for casual viewing, like watching the news. This is especially true when you consider the fact that he bulbs burn out every couple of years with moderate use. You can expect to change your bulb every year and a half to two years if it is your primary TV. Then's there the minor hassle of having to let the bulb warm up. Every time the PJ goes on, you have to wait about 30 seconds before you see anything, which can be a PITA.

In re: screens. Many a company want to sell you awesome screen materials with crazy crystals all over them, and charge you more than you paid for the PJ. It's your money, but I avoided those guys. Honestly, I don't want to know if there is a big difference between these screens, but I am very skeptical that, in a totally dark room, the screen material is going to make the image better. Brighter? Maybe. But, as I said before, todays PJs are plenty bright, especially in a dark room.

If you want more advice, though, I did tons of research before purchasing, so feel free to ask.

Thanks for all the advice so far.... when I think of more I will ask

If looking for an alternative to expensive screens....

My test runs with a $100 dollar sheet of "Wilsonart, Designer White" Laminate, on a simple home made frame, produced flawless results with my Epson Powerlite 1080P projector. Here is one thread I found as part of my research with some great screen comparison pictures.

Example thread on Laminate Screen

If I ever get off my butt and finish seam filling, it will be put into permanent operation.

In short, this particular brand and model of laminate has been regarded as equal to or even better than many of the 500 to 700 dollar screen alternatives. It certainly totally satisfied my eyes, although I don't claim to be an expert.

I have to agree as well. Get a TV first. While 1080p might not be "necessary", why buy something that's already dated, coming out of the box? Save up until you can get it right the first time. As far as future proofing goes, 1080p and 10-bit color are pretty important. The 120hz option is pretty cool too, as that could open up 3D options in your future.

After that, I'd opt for the M60's next, VP150 third, then QS8's last. Reasoning being, the M60's will be far and away the biggest improvement in sound from where you are now.

The biggest piece of advice I can give though is to save up, and buy everything piece by piece and get it right the first time. The temptation is to grab whatever you can get now because you want it as soon as possible, but in the end you'll just be disappointed in your purchase, and want to "upgrade" everything again. In the end, spending more than if you'd just waited awhile and bought the good stuff to begin with.

Just my two cents.

120Hz opens up 3D options? How's that then?

Because 120Hz is divisible by three dimensions.

Duh.




Yeah, I got nothing. . .

Ah but 60 is divisable by 3D also

Might have been a typo for 36D. That does open up quite a big on a good TV.

Yeah, I was never that good at math.

You guys are so helpful. That's why I like it here.

Of course I can't find a link online now...

A company demo'd an incredible 3D television system here at my office not too long ago. I believe it required a 120hz television (as well as their special player). The results were actually quite stunning.

I've also seen a story about video cards that can create realistic 3D for gaming. (the games are already coded for 3D, the card simply splits that info up into each eye) Both systems require special 3D glasses.

Must have to do with using alternating frames or something.

yep...basically 60hz to one eye, and 60hz to the opposite eye.

Cool. I wonder how they manage that.

with engineering, I suspect.

I'm gonna go with "magic."

I saw something on this too. Did that article say anything about being able to watch 2 sources at once? The one I read had one guy watching tv while another wore special glasses and played video games on the same display....

That hurts.