Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Technical Questions EP500 Sub rattles sometimes

I have an Epic 80 7.1 system with the EP500. It is incredible sounding to say the least. One thing I have noticed, though, is that every so often if there is extreme lowend bass happening, the EP500 will vibrate so hard that the cone rattles against the enclosure. Is this normal? If I put in digital video essentials HDDVD and do the speaker test, I can repeat this every time.

I have all of my speakers set to small in my receiver so the sub is handling all low end. I've only heard this on two Bluray movies so far, so it's not a big issue, but it does concern me.

Does anyone have any ideas/suggestions?

Thanks

have you calibrated with an SPL meter to make sure it is not running to hot?

I had a rattle on my first ep 500 and axiom sent me a new driver, a new amp, and finally sent me a whole new sub.

You may find some helpful info in these links


http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=192062&fpart=1

http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=181851&fpart=1

Do you have the sub calibrated to the same SPL as the other speakers? If you have the volume(gain) on the sub and/or receiver cranked to high, you might be running the sub to hot.

My trim is set to flat. I have the crossover bypassed. The sub volume is at the first tick past min. I used an SPL to do all of the speakers. I set the sub to 10db higher than the rest of the speakers to give a little more punch. So 75db for all but the sub which is set to 85db.

I didn't think that 10db would affect the subs performance. Is that an incorrect assumption?

You aren't incorrect. Have you tried tightening all the bolts on the sub? The allen wrench that comes with the sub in order to put on the feet fits in all of the bolts.

That's the first thing I did when I got my EP350, although I wouldn't tighten them too hard... wouldn't want to strip out the MDF!

10db may be a little much since about 6 db is perceived as "twice as loud"... I still don't think it should be rattling though.

I run my ep 500 at about 80 db with all others set to 75. Occasionally during an action movie I increase the sub level in the receiver from -2.5 to -1 db which offsets this a little more... but that is usually at an 'average' listening level.

does the noise sound like it is comming from the driver or from the amp?

Ken, the screws tighten into threaded metal sleeves... do you think over tightening would really strip the MDF? It seems like it would strip the theads on the screw or the sleeve, or strip the head of the screw.

Either way I wouldn't over tighten anything... maybe tighten about a 1/4 of a turn or so.

I disagree. With certain test tone generators (ie, DVE, which I have) it is necessary to bump the sub by 10dB because of some reason that I don't remember off the top of my head.

You should be able to get the EP500 to max volume before the DSP kicks in, and should not hear any rattling.

Yes, when I called JC from axiom he said that you should be able to turn the EP500 up as much as you want and it should not rattle.

is it possible that the noise you are hearing is port chuffing?

It seems like it's coming from the driver. When I first heard it from the DVE tests, I took the front off and could see the driver head and it looked as if it was rattling against the back of the driver due to the amount of movement.

I'll try shoring up the screws, but I don't think that's the issue. But you never know. :-)

The DSP specifically prevents that from happening, so unless you've got a bad DSP, I would guess there's another problem; maybe a wire inside that's hitting the driver, or some such.

Somone posted about a bad driver on their ep500 a while ago. Axiom sent them a new one and it resolved the issue.

I say its time to give axiom a call

WoW, your running your subs 10dB hot, where is jakeman when you need him. My EP600 and 2 350v3's are calibrated at the same SPL as the other speakers, or 78dB's. When combined, that puts them around 6dB higher than the other speakers, however, the frequency response across all seats is flatter.

Most experts will tell you to run the sub(s) at the same level, including Axiom.

Ok, after looking at the threads above and what you have said, I went down and took the driver out. It is definitely the driver. If I push in on the woofer manually, there is a clicking sound (kind of like those clicker toys we had as kids). It happens with every press of the woofer repeatedly. Not sure what would cause this. At this point, I would assume I need to engage Axiom about it and see what they say unless you guys have any other ideas.

I think I would have called Axiom before doing that...

Yah, just give them a call and they will hook you up.

Hi all!

I also happened to discover a rattle/vibration problem today in my EP350 v3. Thats why Im here now looking for answers in the forums.
Well, Im here almost everyday anyway, but this problem was a not very pleasant discovery so its worth some extra forum time.

I only have a stereo system and I normally don't play very loud, and I've heard this rattle before but I always assumed that it came from the good ol' crt tv standing next to the sub.
In trying to maybe reduce this noise I "accidently" discovered that it was coming from the sub itself.
I've tried some things like moving the sub and putting it on a carpet but its all the same. It sounds like its coming from the amp on backside and is somewhat similar to that of terzaghi's noise: http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=7&Number=191860

By reading through some posts though it seems like Axiom are willing to help and thats very comforting. I just sent them a mail so we'll see what they respond. I also made a recording of my own which I attached to the mail (read afterwards that they only accept pictures as attachments though). I can post it somewhere if anyone is interested to listen.
I really love their customer service, and Alan really gave me good personal advice when I first bought this sub.

I must say that I was nervous when I first recieved the sub about three months ago, because the box was badly beaten by FedEx, and as I live in Norway it had come a long way. But it looked good as new once I opened the partially already open box and removed all protective stuff and the plastic. Too bad I sold my X-ray machine so I couldn't check the inside.

A thought that struck me during reading some posts was, that some people here, who had these problems and then got them fixed described that they now got much more punch in the bass that was lacking before.
I rekognise that feeling because I've never really felt that there was that big "omphff" that you are supposed to feel. Maybe I was expecting too much after reading just about everything written about it here in the forums (still can't find any reviews though except for the old 350).
Im very green to subs in general, at least real life experience, so I've always just thought that well this must be it and its probably all good because its a good sub according to others. But if a friend of mine had owned this sub and demoed it for me, I would not be overly impressed, and I've never felt that "the pictures are coming of the walls" feeling that everyone else is talking about.
Also I thought it could have something to do with room acoustics (I have done the crawl though), or the fact that I only use it in a stereo setup as of now, connected through the high level inputs, and that maybe just maybe it will kick more once applied as a .1 LFE in a HT setup.

And finally, ofcourse it can be all good in the "omphff" sector and maybe I expected too much, and its just the rattling that is the problem.

Im not sure I'll be able to sleep now as Im going to think about sub rattleing all night, and work starts in about 5 hours, but I'll give it a try.

Wish me luck! (with the sub issue ofcourse, sleep is overrated ;))

try playing some material that causes the rattle. When you hear it try pressing on the back of the amp plate firmly and see if it goes away. If so, I would reccomend tightening the amp a bit.

Also, what do you have the gain (volume) knob turned to on the back of the sub?

What is your crossover setting and your sub db level in your receiver?

Wow fast response...

The starting note on Norah Jones - Cold Cold Heart is shake RATTLE and roll maker.

Tried pressing already, doesn't help.
The rattle is only there when I turn the volume knob higher than normally use, but the volume isn't that high anyway.
I use the high level inputs as I only have 2ch amp.
The rattling is not there if I play at normal levels using 80Hz setting on the sub, but if I turn up the volume and set higher crossover its very much there.

Both my EP500s had bad rattles from the get go. Called Axiom and they sent two new drivers. Rattles are gone. Awesome customer service. I too had pulled the drivers, and one the cone had pulled apart from the coil. On the other, when I pushed the cone in and out manually, it would not operate smoothly, causing the rattle. The first situation sounds more like yours. I would call Axiom right away. No need to live with it as it should not rattle. BTW, I bought my EP500s about 7 months ago. About when did you get yours? Just curious as to maybe you got into the same batch of drivers I got into.

Are you sure the rattle is in the sub? Sometimes it can be nearby objects, or even something within your walls, that causes the rattle.

Yeah, it's in the sub. I actually called Axiom and they are going to send me a new speaker. The speaker is definitely the issue. When you guys rave about the service, man you aren't kidding!

Me too is sure about it beeing the sub. If I put my ear near the back of the sub I can clearly hear that it is coming from the sub.
I tried moving the sub away to anther room and its still coming from the sub.

My 500 also developed a rattle in both the driver and strangely
the amp. Axiom replaced both, GREAT folks and service!
With the amp I could actually tap the back plate lightly with my
finger and the amp would vibrate. The driver cone was separating
from the outside ring.

Bottom line is, if you have any problem/question...call Axiom.

sounds like a possible quality control issue to me.

Well I got answer from JC, and he gave some things to try out.
I took the woofer and amp out, and they both seems to be in good shape. I suspect that it might was the cable running to the woofer that was vibrating against the plastic cover inside the amp cabinet.
I tried to alter its location a bit and it helped. Its still some vibrations if you crank up the volume but its much better. I will try to find something to put in between or around the cable that can stop it from vibrating just to make sure. Im not certain though about how hot it gets in there, and dont want whatever I use to start melting.

Nice avatar Hashpipe, gotta love Scrat.

Yeah... he's the man alright. Have you seen the extras on The Incredibles? There's a little mini movie there with Scrat called Gone Nutty. It's really funny.
Maybe I too should do some photoshopping so my Scrat is also holding a precious...

EDIT: Done

I did see that clip, very good...much like your improved avatar

Was there a second disc? My Incredibles disc doesn't have this short...

Scott

I was confused, as well. Scrat is a Fox/Blue Sky creation. The Incredibles are Disney/Pixar.

Yes I believe you are right.
I actually just have downloaded this short together with a Incredibles Teaser Trailer (which actually contains some scenes not featured in the movie itself).
It just said it was Incredibles extras from dvd, but it seems it's not.
I think Gone Nutty is from Ice Age extras.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gone_Nutty
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0342965/

I remeber seeing but not where...

IMDB says it's on the original Ice Age

Wiki

FYI, the new driver fixed the issue. Problem solved! Thanks Axiom support!

That is awesome...

I had the noise you explained on 2 occasions with my EP500. With the first, a setting in my Denon amp had it running 10 DB hotter than what it showed for DTS DVDs (or was it for non-DTS, I can't remember now.)

Second time, I actually found a cats toy stuck way back inside the port. This was both a mystery and an embarrassment to me as the cover is always on and I had also been speaking to Axiom as to what the problem might be.

hmmm, considering the talk that it should never rattle, I now wonder if the stuffed bear was in there way back when it was running hot from the Denon setting issue? I should crank it 10db to experiment.

Sorry to bring up this old topic, but I have a question about my EP500. It's been rattling on me again lately, in which I've opened it up 3 different times now to move the wires.

Every time I do this, the problem is fixed, but only temporarily. Will the sub's performance weaken every time I open it up? Considering unscrewing and re screwing back in the bolts, would this weaken the sub? Is there a solution on how I need to arrange the wiring in the sub so the rattling (vibration) will stop? Any help is appreciated!

EDIT: Also, I have tried on the bass heavy scenes to hold my hand on the back amp just to make sure it wasn't that rattling, plus I made sure all of the bolts were tighten down, I'm still getting a major rattle. It sounds like it's in the amplifier section, but I'm not sure. Depending on what bass scenes it is, it will change from a little vibration to a big rattle.

My sub isn't set very hot either, it's around 1/4 of the way from the min. mark. Sorry for the rant. Is there anything else I need to check?

I never told you guys that I upgraded my 350 to a 500 on the day my order was supposed to ship. I could jokingly say that maybe I shouldn't have but I won't .........................

You know, the 800's coming out soon, Bob.....

Bob, would that delay your order also or did Axiom have the EP-500 available for the switch?

It might. originally ordered just the 800s and after week 3 added the rest of the 5.1 system (Ah, the good old days when I still had overtime). It added another week to my order. When I updated the order I was told that they would average the wait time for all speakers ordered.

Ascension, could you shorten the wiring, or turn the lugs and retighten to make them shorter? I remember my first 500, the wires running from the amp to the driver were very long and resting on the port, causing a rattle. I had to rearrange things as well and reported this to Axiom, they have to have enough slack so you can remove the driver. Maybe you could place a thin piece of foam or something between the two.

Thanks for the reply sirquack. I'll try to shorten the wiring. I was going to try to move around the foam to help it not knock against the port. Does it matter if I move around the foam too much I wonder?

Hi Ascension,

I haven't had my EP500 opened up for a couple of years, but if memory serves, there is also a plastic boot around the amplifier inside the EP500, and the boot can rattle, so you should check it as well.

When we were developing the EP500, I exchanged about three different amplifiers, as well as different boards on the amplifier, so I had to open it up numerous times. I seem to remember a rattle developing with the plastic boot, and I managed to get rid of it.

Also keep in mind that every object in your room has its own resonant frequency that can be set into motion by a particular frequency. I once had metal Venetian blinds that rattled and I swore it was coming from the subwoofer.

Regards,
Alan

Also, make sure that it isn't port noise you are hearing. I found that if I play certain scenes with the master volume up high, and the sub calibrated slightly "hot", I would get port noise.

This is another reason I want an ep800!

Thank you for the advice Alan and terzaghi. I very much appreciate it! I'll check that tonight when I get home, because it sounds like it's close by the amp section, but like you said, it could be something totally different in my room that's rattling.

Here is the link from when I was having problems:
http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=13665&Number=191895#Post191855

In the end axiom ended up sending me a completely new ep 500 (after sending me a new amp)

I may end up calling axiom. I took out the amplifier last night. I made sure the wiring wasn't touching anything. I checked the plastic boot on the amp. It wouldn't budge at all.

Next I checked the plastic port to see if it was loose. It seemed like it was built in there pretty tightly with no movement whatsoever.

I will remove the driver tonight and play with that a little bit. Maybe I'll remove the amp again and see if the cord moved while I was putting back in the amp.

I never realized how heavy that freaking amp is. Very well built!! Kudos to you axiom for a solid amp!