Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Sony Blu-Ray Player...

Good player? Good deal?

Sam's Club.

Well here's what I know. It does not support dolby trueHD or DTS-HD MA and I've read many complaints about it freezing often. I also decided to check amazon and many of the customer reviews confirmed the freezing issue. This alone would have me ruling it out but who knows, maybe someone with experience will have something positive to say about it.

Thanks, I figured as much. I stopped by Sam's this afternoon, saw it and my immediate thought was this is first B/R player I've seen under 450 bucks. Looks like the previously suggested Panasonic or the PS3 is the way to go.

I'll have to agree with the PS3.

Yeah I'll have to agree. Save a bit more and buy one that will last and actually play what the disc is capable of outputting. Last thing you want to do is rush into it and have a bad experience, this hobby is too damn expensive for that.

How is the PS3 with the high def audio formats these days? Is it able to pass TrueHD and DTSMA via HDMI?

Absolutely!

It can't bitstream it, but it can pass all formats as LPCM.

I have just recently upgraded to the new Denon BR from the Sony. Love the Denon but have no complaints re the Sony. Froze once, but just turned it off/on and everything was fine. Sound was great, so at that price point I would not be afraid to jump in.

Greg

PS3 also plays SACD. At least my 80GB version does. A nice bonus as I probably wouldn't have invested in a SACD player otherwise. Impressive tough, now that I have tried it.

Can someone educate me on what the functional as well as practical differences (read: differences in audio quality and or versatility) of a bitstream and an LPCM signal.

I think I understand that the bitstream is a digital copy (encoded?) of the signal, that the receiver decodes an processes, etc. Is the LPCM version the same digital signal via HDMI, just decoded by the player?

If this is true, then am I to assume that the PS3 (assuming latest firmware) will permit me to send a TrueHD AND a DTS-MA signal?

A buddy is building a system from scratch and he's considering paying the slight extra for the PS3, but I want to be sure that it is otherwise up to snuff. The addition of the gaming system certainly makes it a good value, but my fear is that there are hidden compromises (picture/sound quality) when viewing Blue Ray. Any comments?

You are correct. In it's simplest form, it basically comes down to where it gets decoded.

If your receiver has the ability to decode the new formats, you may prefer to send it the unconverted HD sound format, via LPCM, and let the receiver do the decoding work that separates it out into the separate 5.1 or 7.1 channels as analogue for your speakers.

If your receiver is not new enough to decode the new HD audio streams, them the PS3 will decode it for you, and send all the separate channels information via bitstream that most any digital receiver can handle. With most of the work already done, the receiver just has to convert the seperate channels into Analogue to feed the speakers.

It's more complex than that but this is the basic difference.
In theory, the resulting analogue signal to each speaker should be exactly the same no matter which way you do it. Some may argue keeping all conversion as far down the stream as possible is better while others might argue over which converts better. For me, I don't care. It just sounds great!

Edit:
And yes, the PS3 will allow you to utilize all of the new High Def audio formats. It's just a matter of which box, PS3 or receiver, ends up doing the decoding work. Either way, you get to hear the new and improved sound.

Cool. Thanks for the clarification. I think I had it backwards first time around.

Actually, now that you mention it, I think I wrote it up backwards. Same idea though.

It's actually the reverse, the PS3 will decode the format and send it decoded by LCPM via HDMI to a receiver that cannot decode the new formats , that's how I do it with my PS3 and Denon 4806.

If the receiver can decode the new formats you can send the new formats via bitsream and let the receiver do the decoding. I don't think there is an issue with SQ or PQ either way.

One thing to remember, however, is that at this point the PS3 won't bitstream (allow the receiver to decode) the High resolution soundtracks. The good news is that any receiver that will decode them will also simply accept them as LPCM (as the PS3 sends it). So it isn't really an option to let the receiver decode with the PS3. However it isn't a big issue it gets there one way or the other.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Seriously!? I didn't think the PS3 could play SACD's. I've not replaced my 480p DVD/SACD player yet with a HD/BR capable device because I don't want to lose my SACD's and I don't have the AV rack room for two players.

How does it pass the audio? Does it have analog outputs or is it via HDMI?

Edit: Well, I'll be darned. AVS

The 20gb,60gb and older (2007 80gb) PS3s will play SACD.

Thanks, all. I'm going to recommend that my buddy get the PS3, then.

Any reason why I should get the higher vs. the lower gig player (other than the obvious hard drive size difference)?

oh yeah, consider this thread hi-jacked. My bad, Rick.

So, that's great that the PS3 will decode the new formats and send them LPCM to a "older" receiver that cannot decode those formats.. but what if the receiver only has coax or toslink inputs ? and NO HDMI ? can I still have the new HD Sound format, decoded by the PS3 and sent LPCM via toslink or coax ? My pre-amp is pretty darn good, Anthem AVM-20, but it predates HDMI.

No such luck, Riker. It wants HDMI.

Storage size depends upon your intended usage. You can now download movies and TV shows directly to your PS3 for viewing. You can load your own movies, MP3s and photos on a PS3 as well. There are downloadable games that don't require you to go out and buy a disk, just pay online.

However, if you need extra room it is super easy to plug in an external hard drive right into one of it's USB ports for an extra 500GB or more. The internal drive has also been designed so it's easily replaceable.

So short answer = pay more attention to the features of the differnt size models so that you get all the features you want. Size can easily be added later.

This wiki page shows the big difference in features between all the models. Size refers as much to feature set as it does storage space.

PS3 model comparison
.

Ooooh. Just read the chart closer in the link I sent you. They are starting to strip a lot of features out of the new, 80GB models. No more SACD, flash card reader, or PS2 compatibility.

If you want SACD, now is the time to hunt down the last of the older models.

Wait, there's a new 80 GB model, different from the old 80 GB model, with fewer features?

Can the older PS3's be upgraded to the newest firmware like blueray 2.0?

Yes.

That chart may be misleading as the Metal Gear 80gb bundle I recently bought comes with SACD capability, card reader and other...

Perhaps. A Google revealed a lot of web board and blog posts complaining about removed features on the 80GB, especially the lack of PS2 game support. Perhaps you got lucky and bought old stock. After all, we are not far into August.

Hopefully, the data was wrong and they are still shipping the same box.

A side note on players that are sending the new format as a bitstream is that they can't use some Bluray Profile 1.1/2.0 features like extra audio commentary during the movie, because it has to be mixed in with the original soundtrack in the player. More info on this can be found elsewhere.
To use these features one would have to do the decoding in the player and send decoded/mixed audio as LPCM.

Something I would like to know is if any Axiom owner with a 3808 and a player that does both has done a comparison.
The capability to decode the new formats in the reciver mostly look like a sales thing more than to be actually useful at this point unless there is a difference in AQ?

Hashpipe, I would think that a player that does not decode the format but passes them along to the receiver via bitstream would be cheaper to manufacture, thus cheaper to purchase. However, the customer is likely to have paid a premium to get that feature in the receiver.

However, I have not heard of any issues with bitstreaming players not being able to play profile 1.1 content... do you have some links? I would think the problem would be a fault of individual bluray models not working like they should, not the process of bitsreaming altogether.

I can't tell a difference between the PS3 audio as L-PCM and the BD30 to the 3808 as bitstream. About the only drawback with the PS3 outputting LPCM is sometimes discrete 7.1 get's screwed up and output as a matrixed 7.1 or 6.1

The PS3 is my favorite SACD player. I have one of the first models to be sold. Not sure which one it is, but I think it has a 20 gig hard drive. I bought it for BR and I do not play games. I still keep in on my rack and use it every once in a while. I love how fast it is.

I can agree on that the cost probably would be lower.
Just looking at the Denon offerings shows that pretty good.
Although their more expensive model has the Realta video processor that brings up the cost. Not sure really yet about how a pure transport vs. a player makes any difference in PQ. I guess this mostly concerns DVD playback but Im not sure.

Here's a link where they talk some about interactivty issues.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=958508

I just bought the Oppo DV-980H DVD which Im later going to pair with a 3808.
The Oppo is one of few players that supports SACD DSD output over HDMI, opposed to PCM or analouge.
Going to do a whole lot of comparing stuff once I get everything set up. So much stuff to figure out. I know that the Denon supports DSD input but as I understand it, it won't be able to apply any EQ unless its first converted to PCM which I think can be done in the Denon. I think DSD mode is called DSD direct, similar to the Pure direct mode for stereo. The Oppo can send SACD as PCM also.
Not sure how it handles DSD direct concerning speaker distance/level settings but I think that it shall work. The Oppo can send SACD as PCM also.
Also the Oppo has another scaler/deinterlacer than the Faroudja in the Denon. Opinions on which is the best varies but the Faroudja is said to create a more film like picture while the Oppo is sharper.
All is probably going together with a Samsung LE-46A656 which in itself has a descent scaler/deinterlacer.
Man it's getting more and more advanced, I guess you just have to set a good limit on how much you tweak vs. set and forget.
If anyone has ay experience with Denon 3808 with the Oppo player that would be great!

Hmmm.. seems that someone has reported issues with bitstreaming and profile 1.1 content in that thread. However, this post was back in December 07, so surely any issues have been fixed with new players.

Well as I understand it this issue is due to limitation in the bitstream process or how you would call it. It seems like that it's not something that can be fixed. Google it and you will see.

Although I believe few people can hear any difference between the two decoding options, maybe, just maybe you could with multidollar equipment and a trained pair of ears.

Also as BR players are getting better I think any difference will become smaller and many people like to use the extra features that are available with PCM. Especially considering the fact that PS 3 is the no 1 BR player right now, and it can not send high def sound as bitstream.

http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=797122

Nope, the one I bought was a brand new limited model for the release of the newest and last Metal Gear Solid game.

This is a very good thing then!!

I think the difference is the newer model ps3's uses software emulation, so there is not 100% support for all ps3 games.

1st gen ops3's used hardware emulation I believe, so it played 100% of the ps2 games.

I think.

Ran into a Sony rep in a store and he said the 300- BD player is the entry level model, but might skip if you have your sub cranked up.

He said the 500 series has more anti skip and solid state technology built into it and I cant remember which one is the top of the line from Sony, maybe the 550. He said that it has all the features of the 500, but 7.1 audio is better than the 500.

Check out the new Sony BDP-S350.I just got mine from Vanns for $349.98.From what I've read it's much improved over previous models.