Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners Receiver opinion needed.

First time poster, long time lurker.

You guys must be sick of this, but I need advice on selecting a new receiver.

I've been looking at the Denon AVC-2808 for a while and just want to make sure that I'm making the right selection. Since the 2809 just came out, that means the price for the 2808 should be dropping a lot (if I can still find them in the stores).

The speakers that I have are just 5 M2 bookshelves since I got them as a present to myself when I started my first job 3 or 4 years ago. The receiver that I got back then was the Onkyo TX-SA601 or TX-SA602, but I sold it when I changed jobs and moved to Tokyo.

I'm living in Japan so my receiver selection is also limited to the usual Denon, Onkyo, Yamaha, etc. My room (and speakers aren't that big so I don't need one that can power massive speakers. My room is roughly 120-140 square feet in size with a roughly 9 feet high ceiling.

I also want to make sure it has at least 2x HDMI and the usual blu-ray sound supports. I'll be using it for movies and games primarily. I want it to be flexible enough that I can still keep it for if and when I upgrade my speakers in the future.

The 2808 seems to fit my needs pretty well, but I just want to get a second (or more :P) advice from you guys.

Thanks!

Tori, welcome. Sure, the 2808 should be fine for your use, but there's really no "right selection", meaning that the other similar receivers from Onkyo, Yamaha, etc. wouldn't be "right". Moderate cost receivers these days are excellent and should be bought considering features and price.

Incidentally, "massive speakers" frequently are more sensitive than smaller ones and require less power at a given sound level.

I would suggest you give the folks at 6ave.com a call. They have been selling the denon 3808 for $1100, and I beleive the 2808 for $850. You have to call them to get the price. I think the 2308 was like $650.

Ask about other receivers as well.. they may have special prices over the phone for others you may want.

Edit: Make sure that the denon models you are looking at support the sound formats you want. MY 3808 can decode all of the sound formats but I have never used that feature since I have only used the toshiba A2 HD-DVD play er and the sony PS# as a bluray player. Both of these do all the decoding in the player... so you may not need a receiver that decodes the formats afterall.

Do they ship to Japan, the OP is living in Japan.

OOPS,never read that part.. probably not!

Thank for the advice guys.

The 2808 can be had here in Japan for about 76,650 Yen (roughly USD$713). A couple days ago the price actually dropped to around USD$630, but I was still on the fence and lost out on the chance to get it.

Like terzaghi, I use the PS3 as my blu-ray player so I guess most of the encoding will be done in the player. I just set up the PS3 recently so I haven't gotten around to setting up all the settings and stuff yet (but that's a totally different topic).

The 2808 supports most of the HD audio formats...at least the ones I expect to be using on the PS3. And reading the older posts, Denons seem to have the reputation of matching Axioms.

More or less those are the reasons that I'm looking at the 2808.
It doesn't have the GUI the 3808 has, but its significantly cheaper. It doesn't have DLNA support, but the PS3 can handle that so it's a nil issue for me.

Are there any other receivers that I should look at before I pull the trigger?

Remaining stock of Onkyo 805's can be good value since the 806 was recently introduced.

The 805 is sadly a bit over my budget. It's selling for about USD$900 here and I'm hoping to spend around USD$800.

I just came across these two Yamahas and they seem pretty decent too.

RX-V663
http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/productdetail.html?CNTID=567571&CTID=5000300

RX-V863
http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/productdetail.html?CNTID=567570&CTID=5000300

Overall, just looking at the specs, both of these seem like they support more audio formats than the 2808. Except the Yamahas have lower power ratings than the 2808 (95W for the 663/105W for the 863 vs 110W for the 2808). I read on one of the Japanese home theater forums for the Denon 2808 that some of the users weren't happy with the DSPs for it and that Yamaha's are better when it comes to DSP selections/effects. Not to mention the Yamahas are one of the few black receivers available in Japan and not the ugly gold that are common to home theater components here. :P

I recall that Yamaha receivers in the past(?) had a bad rep on these forums for not being good matches with Axioms. Is this still true?

Only in that Yamaha receivers do not consistantly handle the 4 ohm load the M80s present. Some are OK, some are not. In your case, the 663 would be a great receiver!

I'm using a low end Yamaha HTR 6030 with a pair of M2s and it sounds great. The only DSP I ever use is "Music Enhancer" on streaming internet radio (usually 128k)which works quite nicely (I think it just exaggerates certain freqs to make it sound fuller).

In a typical Japanese urban apartment there is no way you are going to be using more than 95 watts of power. Besides, 110w is way less than 1dB more anyway.

Tori, there's been no informed comment that the Yamahas have any problem with Axioms. Both the 2808 and 663 would give you transparent amplification within their nearly identical power limits. Again choose on the basis of features and price. Note for example that the 2808 has the Audyssey MultEq XT setup and equalization system while the 663 uses the YPAO; many consider the Audyssey to be more advanced at this stage of development.

AutoEQ is for chumps. Real men "play it by ear".

Thanks again for all the advice everyone.

After looking around some more, I'm now leaning towards getting the DSP-AX763 (US RX-V663 I think...).

The main reasons are:
1. Price.
2. More audio format support.
3. It's black :P

Audyssey MultEq XT is very nice and quite tempting, but since I plan on calibrating (probably poorly ^^; ) with DVE it's not that big of a loss I guess.

Your ear is a better judge of what you want to listen to than some machine anyway. Even as good as the Audyssey may be it is still only a starting point for tweaking to your individual taste. The YPAO will get you into the same area of the ballpark.

DVE and an SPL meter should also serve you quite well.



I, of course, keep waffling between the 3808 and the 663 for my step up to HD.

If I didn't want the Gui and network connectivity I think I would be going with the 663, too good of a price point.

I would disagree with some comments about overlooking the Audyssey and other built in algorithm routines of the latest generation AVR's. Your ears and an SPL meter can't compensate for room acoustics, however, they are a good follow up compliment once you've run the auto setup, such as Audyssey, which exceeds the ability of YPAQ. Also, DVE is just OK.

And if it can't handle 4 ohm speakers like the M80 you can still add a cheap 2 channel pro amp like the Behringer A500 for the fronts and be well ahead in $ spent.

Its really about the features.

Hey... hadn't seen anything about that amp before. After a quick Google, very tempting. The lack of a trigger is a serious downside, though.

$180? Wow.

There has been some talk on audioholics on pro vs consumer amps. It seems the pro amps deliver a lot more watts per $. No fancy toys like 12v triggers though.

The 500 and 2500 are also used by the DIY sub crowd.

But do they use massive toroidal transformers? I need those. And fat shiny power cables.

Stable to 2 ohms, what more could you want?

You can always go to monster for those fat shiny cables.

Yeah, without some sort of trigger mechanism (even an IR receiver), I think it's a non-starter for me.

I know my both of my Denon's are good to about that 2 ohm mark, as I had the VP150 and 2 M22s hooked up as a center channel, all at the same time, and output was on average 80db.

Dude, they invented The Clapper years ago.

Oh, that's fine and dandy until he puts on "In the Navy" by the Village People! The thing will be going on and off about 200 times!!

The likelihood of that is so low it would only occur once in every 100000 collapse/rebirth cycles of the universe.

Yeah, but that's how many times it's going to collapse and be reborn every second once they start up the Large Hadron Collider.

Dude, I so want to be sucked into a black hole along with the rest of humanity.

If the power trigger is the biggest obstacle, you could add one of the fancy power "conditioners" or fancy surge protectors that do have programmable power on/off and still be $ ahead versus buying a more traditionally priced amp.

Also, what about plugging this into the switched outlet on the back of a receiver? Too much draw to work, or would that be an effective solution? That way it'd come on only when the receiver did...

Jason

Fred - do you have one of these or you've just read about them? I'm seriously interested, and my birthday is coming up... $200 is worth a try, and I've bought from zzounds before where they have a full money back 30-day return policy... TEMPTING.

I have just read about them. You can do a search on audioholics.com and probably come up with a few owners if you want some direct feedback.

I would look at one of these as an option If I decide to go with the RXV663. Given prices of most receivers in Canada, the RXV663 + the crown 2 channel amp is a very cost effective solution. I would be giving up a lot of features though.

I think the receiver's triggered outlet would be a bad idea. Most of those say they're for low power only.

No, the big obstacle is that I really don't need it.

Bah... if that was my biggest obstacle I would have a 5th bedroom instead of a home theater. Never let that stop you!

I looked at PartsExpress and the amps get very high marks... I have the Behringer Feedback Destroyer that I use for sub tuning so I already know I like the brand...

Fredk... thanks, JUST when I said I was done spending money in the HT for the foreseeable future! :p

Jason

Power on/off is nowadays a bad move for most electronics. They are getting closer and closer to computers (when they are not actual computers; that includes all HD players) and computers don't appreciate having their power yanked out.

Toshiba had stats last year that the most common cause of A-x (HD-DVD) players failures where flash chips dammaged by sudden powering on.

By the way, the power switching problem is now solved as well, for < $50.....

SmartStrip Current Sensing Power Strips

(just in case anyone else is interested)

EFalardeau, you beat me to the post... I agree with what you wrote for many components, absolutely. For pure amps though (not including AVRs), I think you'd still want them powered down when not in use as it would seem likely they'd cause unwanted heat generation and power draw if left on all the time. (my uninformed 2 cents on the matter)

I agree. 12V-triggers are also a very convenient option (My A1400 and EP500 are linked to a "zone-2" trigger on my 805, which means that I can shut them down/up independently when use my headphones).

You lost me on that.

RXV has pre-outs. Hook up A500 to pre-outs = happy Fred, no?

I'm always happy to help others spend money on stuff they don't need.

Nice find on the power outlet!

That's the spirit, Peter! What better way for us to learn more about Black Holes than from inside one? Of course there are some who lack scientific curiosity. Just in case, don't make any plans past Wednesday.

Well, yes, but that won't turn the amp on or off. Plugging the amp into the receiver's auxiliary power outlet (assuming it has one) would turn it on and off, at least until the receiver's power circuitry caught fire.

When I had my amp I ran it into the switched outlet on my PureAV power center, then ran a line from the switched outlet to the receiver, so the amp would go on and off with the receiver.
The switched outlets on receivers as Ken mentioned should not be used for anything but low power devices.

Gocha. Can I plug my coffee maker in there?

Receiver switches on queing music and brewing a cup of joe. Fred crawls out of bed and grabs his coffee on the way to the kitchen, spilling half of it into the receiver.

I love technology!

Fred:
Don't get me started!

I've thought for awhile that all receiver manufacturers should include sleep and wake timers for the $1nit would cost....

This is not true any more unless you're talking about servers. In the past, hard drives were an immature technology and the more times they were spun down and up, the shorter their lifespans would be. The electronics in modern computers and modern home theater electronics is more than robust enough to withstand regular power cycling.

Don't let this myth prevent you from saving electricity.

Agreed. (although I have a PC on 7x24 because half my house wouldn't run without it.)

A good universal remote can ease the pain of turning everything on and off all the time. One button and 3, 5, 10...etc. devices come alive and configure themselves to do whatever you need.

Throw in some X-10 technology and now your popcorn maker will start too so it's ready by the time the previews are over.

Murph, remind me to take the ferry up there and meet you sometime. I like automated houses, my wife likes Jeeps, and we both like kayaking....

I suck at reminding people but I will remind my wife to remind me to remind you.

You are most certainly welcome any time. I'd look forward to it. I have 2 sea kayaks and have access to extras so we could all go out. Water gets cold here soon though. By late December take skates instead.

Though this thread kinda went off from my original post...but whatever.

Thanks to everyone for your advice.

I just pulled the trigger on the Yamaha DSP-AX763 (US RX-V663) for 63,000 yen (~USD$600). It should arrive this week Saturday.

Now if I can just remember how to calibrate the speakers and all that fun stuff...

Welcome to the Axiom Forums!

Sorry, We all have a bit of ADD here when it comes to staying on topic. I've never seen a question go unanswered though.

Enjoy the new toys!

The usual scenario goes, question, answers to question, threadjack, then thread dies or returns to topic, very normal situation around here.

It's part of our charm!

That part of our charm is greater than the charm of our parts.

or the charm in our pants.

I had the same problem.

My LPA-1 needed a remote turn on. My receiver doesn't have one, but it does have a switched outlet. Since it's obviously a seriously bad idea to plug something like an amp into that switched outlet, I created my own remote turn on....

I looked up the specs as to how much voltage & current was required for the amp to turn on. Then I just went to my local Radio Shack and bought the appropriately rated AC/DC adapter and correct sized plug (& polarity) for the amp turn-on input. Cost me about $10. Amp fires up when the AVR is on, and shuts back down when it's off. Safe & tiny current being pulled from the switched outlet.

Works perfectly.

Very cool Peter. If I ever go that route I might just ask you for details.

Jason