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#229412 - 11/11/08 01:04 AM Re: M22 Ninja Master Crossover review. [Re: jakewash]
grunt Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 3569
Loc: Nirvana
 Originally Posted By: jakewash

That is hard to say, it has been awhile since I have listened to some ~$1000 bookshelfs and when I did I was never that critical, the price was beyond what I was looking to pay at the time. I will say that if you already own a set of M22s and are looking for more detail then the $317 is worth the money, just remember you my find them even more unforgiving than they already are, I know I did.

I think that might be my next round of listening tests. I found a couple of dealers here that sell the Monitor Audio GS10, they retail around $1000-1500.

Thanks for the feedback. Hope you get a chance to test the GS10s as I’m interested in how the upgraded M22s perform against something priced higher. I’m looking at the possibility of getting some Chorus 807v (about $1,100) for a stereo only system. I planed to A/B them against the M22v2 once I get a house and can setup a dedicated room. The guy I bought my headphones from will let me take a pair to demo. The Ninja upgrade may provide another option should I find the M22s don’t measure up.
_________________________
3M80 2M22 6QS8 2M2 1EP500 Sony BDP-S590 Panny-7000 Onkyo-3007 Carada-134 Xbox Buttkicker AS-EQ1

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#229415 - 11/11/08 01:56 AM Re: M22 Ninja Master Crossover review. [Re: JohnK]
SatKartr Offline
aficionado

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 608
Loc: Dallas
Cogent analysis but I'm always left to wonder after hearing the undiluted AE perspective, even when so eloquently expressed, whether something has been lost in translation because ears are so finicky, so slippery in their responsvity that I'm still not convinced we can eliminate all of the subtle if not even vague subjective impressions without running the risk of missing the boat to auditory bliss in a premature grab for scientific truth.

Just a thought. After the philosopher Daniel Dennett wrote the tome, "Consciousness Explained," Ken Wilber suggested the title really should have been, "Consciousness Explained Away."

Can you tell I'm really jonesing for my new speakers?
_________________________
"If you try to turn toward it, you go against it."

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#229417 - 11/11/08 05:15 AM Re: M22 Ninja Master Crossover review. [Re: grunt]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10398
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Dean, you could still try the Ninja Masters out, they are not hard to install and Sean does offer a money back guarantee much like Axiom, he has a 45 day trial period. There is only one way to know for sure if you would like the modded M22 sound....

I have not heard any Focal bookshelf speakers, but if they sound anything like the Profile 918's I have heard, you are in for treat.
_________________________
Jason
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#229418 - 11/11/08 05:27 AM Re: M22 Ninja Master Crossover review. [Re: JohnK]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10398
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
 Originally Posted By: JohnK

I'll proceed to make a guess that if the described impressions actually exist, the factor involved would appear to be that the tweeter in the Ninja is mainly responsible(because of the much lower crossover)for a lot of the upper mid-range that the mid-woofers handle in the standard Axiom. Since changes in the crossover frequency are relatively simple and inexpensive, I'd also assume that Ian tried several different crossover frequencies in the design of the M22s and selected what delivered the best results with a wide range of program material.
I would have to agree on all counts.

Just another musing, we have said many times on this forum to would be owners, that the Axioms are detailed and when you play good recordings you are rewarded, as they sound SO good. The Ninja Master XO creates the same feelings and thoughts in me as when I first heard the M22s way back in 2003, only now the poor recordings are that much harder to listen to, but the good ones are even better.
_________________________
Jason
-----------------
TTTHHHPPPPPTTTT!

My HT

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#229421 - 11/11/08 08:06 AM Re: M22 Ninja Master Crossover review. [Re: jakewash]
DaveG Offline
aficionado

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 868
Loc: WI
Jay, thanks for the interesting review.
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Dave

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#229424 - 11/11/08 08:29 AM Re: M22 Ninja Master Crossover review. [Re: jakewash]
EFalardeau Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 08/27/07
Posts: 3270
Loc: Laval, Quebec, Canada
Thanks a lot for the expirements and the sharing, it was quite intesresting. I do have a question and a request, though.

Question: Did you guys swap the physical speakers with each other at some point to take speaker placement out of the equation?

Request: Are you in a position to try the new xover mixed with VP100/VP150 and QS-8 to see if there is a good tone match? Also, since soundstage was mentioned, there could be a different in phases (for better or for worse) and object movement transistion accross the channels could be affected.

Thanks in advance! ;\)
_________________________
E = MC2 = ((2M80 + VP180 + 4QS8)/(EP800 + EP500))^(ADA1500 x D2v)
Audiobytes! 2M22! 2VP150!

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#229429 - 11/11/08 09:01 AM Re: M22 Ninja Master Crossover review. [Re: EFalardeau]
myrison Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/03/08
Posts: 1898
Loc: Austin, TX
Jay - awesome stuff my man. Thanks for taking the time to do the review. I really enjoyed reading your impressions.

Jason
_________________________
Epic 80-800: HG Cherry | HT Pics

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#229434 - 11/11/08 09:50 AM Re: M22 Ninja Master Crossover review. [Re: myrison]
bugbitten Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 04/06/05
Posts: 2339
Loc: Madisonville, KY
Thanks Jay!

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#229440 - 11/11/08 10:44 AM Re: M22 Ninja Master Crossover review. [Re: bugbitten]
BlueJays1 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 4078
Loc: Porch,enjoying Bombay Sapphire
Interesting analysis. According to the Ninja's listening notes the crossovers are suppose to tame down the "percieved brightness" of the stock version. The biggest difference you noticed is the exact opposite. This makes a double blind test of the crossover even more appealing and pertinet, but I guess we will never know.

A couple of questions.

How well does the modded M22 match with your centre channel (what are you using)? Axioms centre channels (or if using a matching bookshelf) are designed for perfect timbre with the mains. The new crossover has obviously changed that based on your review. I wonder if the modded crossover would have a negative effect with multi-channel sources.

Thanks again for taking the time to do all of this.


Edited by Dr.House (11/11/08 10:51 AM)
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#229465 - 11/11/08 02:26 PM Re: M22 Ninja Master Crossover review. [Re: EFalardeau]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10398
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
 Originally Posted By: EFalardeau
Question: Did you guys swap the physical speakers with each other at some point to take speaker placement out of the equation?
Yes, made no difference but I am going to try them not toed in as much to see if that helps tame the sibilance, which, according to Sean, should help.

 Quote:
Request: Are you in a position to try the new xover mixed with VP100/VP150 and QS-8 to see if there is a good tone match? Also, since soundstage was mentioned, there could be a different in phases (for better or for worse) and object movement transistion accross the channels could be affected.

I did try them with the VP150 and QS8s, I ran them as mains while watching a few different movies and I didn't notice any panning issues and the tone was still pretty good. The only times I noticed a difference was when only music was playing and I felt that there was nothing coming from the center, the music just filled the room. Once some dialogue or other center channel sound started up, the center/screen became the prominent point of sound again. The Eagles Farewell Tour DVD in DTS 5.1 still sounded great, maybe even a little better as the mains disappeared and the music just took over.

I have been trying to think of a comparison and came up with how I felt Audyssey changed the way my M80s sound. Those of you that have found an improvement with the latest Audyssey EQ, may find that the Ninja Master XO makes the M22 sound like the M80s do when Audyssey is dialed in, more open and airy. I have not tried the Ninja Masters with Audyssey to see what that does to them.

I may have to purchase them just to be able to keep them long enough to try all the new ideas coming in. I am wondering how the stock Ninja XO compares to the sound I heard from the Ninja Master.
_________________________
Jason
-----------------
TTTHHHPPPPPTTTT!

My HT

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