Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Good subwoofer cable suggestions?

Hello all, I am in the process of finishing off my basement and am a bit of a loss as to installing in-wall subwoofer cable. I'm assuming it's RCA type cable, are there any tricks to attaching the cable to wall plates if bought in bulk?

Hi:

I used this cable from http://www.monoprice.com and am very happy.

http://www.monoprice.com/products/produc...&seq=1&format=2

You can also use bulk coax cable and an F-RCA adaptor at each end. This works fine.

Run the coax as you would if it were for cable tv and then use one of these.

Once you get it hooked up, try this trick: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmRTGRbrATs

Rick:
Wouldn't you want one of these instead?

Mark,

The way I figured was to use the regular f connector wall plates ( like with cable tv ) then use short sub cables with rca ends from amp to wall plate and from wall plate to sub. If ya do that then the adapter I linked to would be what is needed.

So do these connectors attatch to the RCA cable as the F-type connectors do with coax? Also, anyone have a link to a good but reasonable resource for bulk cable? Seems the best I can find is at "Parts Express" with 25 ftx5 sections...

Mark and Rick, in order for it to all come together properly, doesn't the OP need to incorporate several of these?

I hear it helps.

Hey Rick,

Isn't this how you set up you sub wiring?

Rick I bought a 1000' spool of quad shielded Tributaries RG6 for all of our in-wall runs and had some subwoofer cables made up as well. My wall plates for the subwoofers terminates with female F connectors and the F connector male end of the made from the spool of RG6 subwoofer cable plugs into the wall plate. I didn't need to use any adapters because the folks who terminated all of my wall plates also made the subwoofer cable for me.

The adapter you show would be for the wall plate terminal end while the adapter that Marks shows should be for the connection to the Subwoofer itself, right?

My mistake. I didn't see that the OP was looking for wall plates!

Hmm, ok wid and Mark, just run cable (tv) coax and terminate it at the wall as usual. Then, run a sub cable/rca connector as you described from amp to wall, then wall to sub. That's simple enough.

Last time I attempted an HT, I forgot to install the subwoofer cables during the build and had to just try to hide them around the baseboard with a monoprice 25ft cable. Sounded good. Looked pretty makeshift though.

I'm hoping to locate four wall plates around the room for subwoofer locations in order to find the optimal location for a single sub (EP-600)as per Dr. Floyd Toole's paper. It's a whole lot easier to do now than after the walls go up.

CG, I'd do six if I were you, one in each corner and one on each sidewall ... it's better to have too many and not use them than it is to not have enough when you do need them.

Good call. Who know's, if the ecconomy doesn't totally implode and when the smoke clears, I may actually be able to spring for a second sub. More possible locations, better outcome. Thanks!

Whenever we built our room I had no idea our single 600 would have ended up mid-side wall where it is now, fortunately I did install the subwoofer wall plates so I really lucked out by doing that. That was the reason for my suggestion.

If I were to do it all over again, I would run coax to all center points of the wall and/or the corners depending on the room setup.

I see HSU now offers wireless option for their top of the line subs, that would be killer for setup and not having to worry about cables.

Why doesn't Axiom look into Wireless.

Did you ever try corner loading it? That was my last best location and I was pretty happy with the results.

What would we do with all of that extra wire Randy?

I was reading about the Hsu wireless just the other day. Have you read any objective reviews on them>

A lot of great possibilities for TV placements...

That's where I had it originally but placed there it was lacking, after speaking with Jakeman on several different occasions I placed it along the mid-sidewall and it sounded so much better.

Whatever happened to Jakeman anyway?

True.

What is you room dimensions?

Jakeman, yeah where is that guy.

Bud, except in nearly square rooms the best location for a single sub, as Dr.Toole, Tom Nousaine and other researchers have pointed out, is usually the corner farthest from a large opening. If you're going to install multiple wall plates, as Randy commented you might want to consider eight, one in each corner and one at the midpoint of each wall.

Last, and hopefully not too pedantic a point, "RCA" refers only to the connectors at the ends, not the cable itself, which is most commonly a coaxial cable.

"Last, and hopefully not too pedantic a point, "RCA" refers only to the connectors at the ends, not the cable itself, which is most commonly a coaxial cable."

Thanks John, good to know...

One more point to bring up, if you haven't thought of it would be to run conduit for all the wiring to run through this way if the need should ever arise, the wires can simply be pulled through as required.

I have seen that done for projector wiring purposes with the composite-DVI-HDMI progression (across/within the ceiling), could be a little trickier in wall/around corners but certainly doable.

You use a flexible conduit like this which would make corners a little easier I would think.

John, I know this seems really basic, but when considering multiple wall plates, would that necessarily require a dedicated run of wire for each location or would some sort of "daisy chain" configuration work.

Great idea Jake, looks flexible enough to work with. On another note, while reading descriptions of cable products at various sites seems to me some vendors have suggested that Cat5 (or cat6) cable can conduct audio signals. Any validity to this? Anyone try this? http://www.hometech.com/audio/linelevel.html#coax

No, not necessary to run a separate cable to each possible sub location.

Of course I have absolutely NO experience with this at all. If I were doing my place, as an electrician, I would run a separate line to each location. If you were to do a continuous loop then you would need a junction at each location. If you were to decide to use the point at the end of the run then your signal would depend on the connection at every other point. (not to mention that the entire run would be way longer than necessary even though I don't believe you would lose signal strength for this kind of signal. why take a chance)

Of course this is a non-validated opinion.

Any loss of signal, which would be insignificant at any rate, could easily be compensated for by simply increasing the LFE output at the AVR to the sub(s) or at the subs themselves.
Remember, you don’t need a junction at each sub, each sub has a line level output as well, which is intended for just this type of “daisy chaining”.
It’s really the difference between running duplicate cables from the AVR or just one and passing through the signal from one sub to the next.(perhaps two cables depending on the location and number of the subs).

They are electrically equivalent. If you had 4 lines, the signal would be split in 4 either way (either a 1x4 splitter for individual runs, or 4 "Y" splitters at each location). The run length would be the same as well.

I wasn't thinking this to be a daisy chain event. I was thinking that the purpose of this pre-wiring was for sub (not subS) placement. If you move 1 sub around to each place then you would need a connection at each point to continue the run of wire around the room to the last point in the run.

The run length would NOT be the same. If the run was 25' in 4 different directions it would still only be a 25' run. If one run went out from the AVR and then connected at each point, the place at the end of the run would be 100'. I already stated that I do not believe that there would be a signal loss using coax but I don't know that for a fact. But why take a chance on extra connecting points and extra length in the run.

Daisy chaining multiple subs sure would work. I guess you would just need to make a connection if you have to send one sub out for repair of if you decide that a sub doesn't work at a particular location.

Bottom line is either way will definitely work. For me, I know what I would do.

In order to daisy chain an "in wall" line application, then at each outlet (where a sub would connect) you would have to essentially in some form or another have a "Y" connection. That is the coax would come in to the junction, allow for the sub to connect at the wall plate, then leave the junction and on to the next wall outlet. I spent the night into the wee hours searching for some sort of product that addresses this application but unfortunately came up empty-handed.

Looking at it from another angle though, if at some point I wanted to add something like an SMS-1, Audyssey/SVS AS EQ-1 or Behringer Feedback Destroyer it might be beneficial to have separate runs to each wall outlet. I've not use one of these products as yet so I don't know from experience if that would be an advantage. If anyone out there has any input on this line of thought, your suggestions would certainly be appreciated.

There is always the HSU ULS-15 subs with built in wireless.

I want someone to try that sub out!

We need a report on how well it works.

Yeah, I'm still curious about it. I'd like it for my computer. Of course, the Elemental Designs A2-300 is a lot more affordable, which I've been considering, and it might give me all of the performance I've been looking for in a computer sub.

Sean, believe me, the thought has crossed my mind. I heard that at the last CES show, other vendors were starting to come out with wireless technologies for the sub channel, just makes sense for placement issues.

My problem is I have 2 Axiom 350v3's and a 600 I'd have to sell first. I've never owned HSU subs.

That is really a tempting product which would certainly make this discussion moot. The hesitancy I have is that it is still a relatively new technology (wireless LFE transmission) and I would sure hate to miss the opportunity to do the in-wall wiring at this point in construction if it would prove inadequate.

Especially with the oncoming prevalence of multiple sub HTs, the wireless technology seems to be very advantageous. Couple wireless subs with remote tuning options and you'd have something special.

My experience with wireless anything hasn't been great, which makes me do hard-wiring as much as possible. But yeah, I would still like to see wireless technology take off as an option in subwoofers.

I've been following most of the threads on AVSforum and other forums, and current owners of the dualdrive or quadrive ULS-15 setups say the wireless works great and has no sonic difference. One guy said his kids Wii would make ONE click sound when he first turned it on, but selecting a different channel on the HSU sub eliminated that issue.

That's good to know.

The only thing I'm unsure about is the delay (distance) setting for each sub. Since most receivers only have ONE preout for the sub, you would most likely have to average the distances of the 2, 3, or 4 subs. That is what I do now for my 3 subs.

Ok, the more I thought about the "y" connector to daisy chain an in-wall line, the more it began to make sense that you could possibly use the typical "Y" that most use somewhere in the chain as an in-wall application as well. With the common leg presenting at the wall plate for sub duty, the other two legs would serve as an input and output to the next terminal. You would just have to be sure it is well secured at the input and output legs, i.e. solder or heat shrink or both.

I think that would work for most AVR and pre's with a single LFE output. Now if you are addressing a unit with mutiple LFE outputs, you definately would need separate lines for each sub location. That would be a nice problem to have!

I don't understand. Is it really that difficult or inconvenient to run a separate line to each location? Why wouldn't anyone want to run a separate line to each location?

I ran a separate coax run to all my possible sub locations in the room that I never seem to finish. You can get very tidy 6 connector wall plates to terminate them on then just plug into whichever one you need. Should I ever actually run two subs, the splitter will be between the AVR and the wall plate.

Loops of coax to multiple boxes make for a bit more complexity to troubleshoot in the future should something funny happen. Because coax is so dirt cheap, I was thinking more about simplicity than I was concerned about electrical properties.

Agreed!

Just a bit more time consuming drilling out all of the wall studs for each separate run. The coax cost certainly isn't the deciding factor since it is relatively cheap. I suppose it is just the principle of the thing... why run 4 or 6 or 8 runs of coax when you could run just one with the "y" connections to make it a series. But then again, you would certainly have more options with the separate runs.

I ran separate runs of RG6 out to the six wall plates from the A/V cabinet, but I can see the pros and cons with each way of running. Right off the top of my head, the task of trying to find a break in the single/run system would seem like a pain but certainly not an impossible feat, what really are the chances of a break occurring anyway?

Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

Rick, can you recomend a connector/adaptor/wall plate that would do the job? Did you use the RCA Jack Keystone connector/wall plate like this http://www.ramelectronics.net/audio-vide...prod72300G.html

I was looking at the pic of your HT and I just can't make much out of the wall plate connecting your 600.

Amazing HT bt the way!

Bud, thanks for the compliment ... I bought F connector wall plates and had a local audio video installer terminate all of the connections, here's the type of plates I used, F Connector wall plate. And here is the installed wall plate in our room, Our installed wall plate. I can't remember exactly where I bought the wall plates from, maybe Radio Shack but I believe they can be found just about anywhere.

The reason I used an outside installer for the terminal F connectors is because they had the proper crimping tools and the meters to make sure all runs didn't have any breaks. I installed all of the other in-wall wiring and had them use the meters to double check for breaks in the system.

Thanks for the quick reply Rick. I guess the biggest issue here for me has been in how to terminate the cable runs into the wall plates i.e. cable-connector-wall plate, or simply cable-wall plate if that is the way it is done.

Since I'm not much of a carpenter, and am having the basement finished by a construction company, I thought I would (at least) do the wiring for the speakers/sub as I did it with the surround sound in our last house without issues.

I've covered a lot of information on the different hardware options on this topic but it has all been online. I probably need to hit Radio Shack or similar outlet to see this stuff realtime and see how it all fits together.

Bud

Bud I'd probably hit a local independent audio video retailer that also does installations and talk to them, they should be more than glad to show you the various connectors to use and how to use them. It may cost a little more to buy from them but the knowledge and help gained in the process is something you'll probably never get from the chain stores.

I had a lot of fun doing the planning and installs in our room, it was very enjoyable for me.

Murph, Where have you found the six connector wall plates (for RCA)? I seem to only be able to find 3+1 coax...

Bud

Bud you should be able to find those wall plates just about anywhere, online, Radio Shack or even Home Depot and Lowes maybe. I have six different wall plates in my A/V cabinet with the different cables and wires grouped together for each plate, i.e., speaker wires are all on one plate, analog cable on another, subwoofers, HDMI, Cat5, Cable TV and etc.

You can even make up the type of plate you like using one of these...wall plate, along with these...terminal connect and can get the different terminal connects (RCA, F, speaker and etc..) that you desire.

Monoprice.com wall plates

Those Keystone wallplates are available in two types. One with the holes integral to the plate and the other the holes are in what is called a Decora style insert (like what Rick has). This allows multiple gangs of inserts with a different number of jacks in each. However, the price for all those inserts can add up quick.

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg14/buzz_065/May15_0011.jpg

Thanks Jake, just what I was looking for...

Bud

Kyle, Are those your wall plates? If so, how long is your HDMI run?

Bud

Yes, those are mine. The HDMI is a 15ft cable but I can't comment on how well it works as I don't have any HDMI gear yet. I just installed it for future upgrade. Everything else has worked great with the exception of the digital (optical) audio. With the connector and plastic cable there was too much signal loss. I had to upgrade to glass fiber ($$$$$) and a single connector (passing through the wallplate in the equipment cabinet without a connector).

Sorry, I've been traveling but I see others have given you some ideas.

I used something very similar to this 7.1 wall plate for most everything but added additional RCA jacks for subs using a Decora plate Like this one. that has room for an insert kind of like six of these. except they had an F-connector on the back and were a lot cheaper than the ones I linked.

f-connectors are your standard coax (cable TV) conenctors. They are easy to crimp on to cable and they screw on so for a little added insurance for the side inside the wall. I went with RCA on the outside just as it's more of an audio standard but you could easily make a custom sub cable with an f-connector on the wall end and an RCA to plug into the sub.

Note: when you get into trying to tighten 6 f-connectors on one wall plate, it can get tricky as they are so close together. Requires some patience and it can help you spot if you are developing arthritis in your fingers, like me.

Looks like you are ready for about anything Kyle. I'm inspired!

Bud

Murph, thanks for the reply. That is certainly an interesting suggestion for a subwoofer cable using coax with an F type connector on one end and RCA on the other.

Many thanks, Bud

Bud here are a couple of pics of three extra F/RCA cables I had made up from the A/V installation folks who terminated my wall plates.

F/RCA cable

F/RCA cable

You could certainly build them yourself if you want, I just didn't care to at the time.

Those are awsome Rick. Are the RCA's any big deal to connect to the coax?

They are the same as any other coax end

I have been using some compression connectors

http://www.techtoolsupply.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=75

And the tool to install

http://www.techtoolsupply.com/index.asp?pageaction=viewcats&category=142

I am planning on using a set of RG6 cables with these RCA ends as interconnects. It is spare cable, so I figure why not.

Does splitting a single sub cable(Y adapter) to two subs degrade the signal at all? Initially I will be using one sub, but I'm thinking down the road sometime, I may want to add a second. My DSP3400 has no provision for a second sub hookup.

A "Y" splitter shouldn't cause any problems whatsoever!

Tks, Mark. I'm asking because I was told it makes a difference with tv signals through split coaxial cable.

Even with coax, as long as the splitter is up to standards, it shouldn't degrade the signal either. I have my main cable line feeding into a 6 line splitter and each of those 6 is split at least once more, no problems at all.