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#240824 - 01/16/09 07:30 PM Re: M80's on the way, need advice...please [Re: RickF]
BoB/335 Offline
aficionado

Registered: 12/26/08
Posts: 505
I thought it was behind my refrigerator.

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#240837 - 01/16/09 08:04 PM Re: M80's on the way, need advice...please [Re: Dduval]
Worfzara Offline
aficionado

Registered: 07/25/05
Posts: 709
Loc: London area, Ont, Canada
 Originally Posted By: Dduval[/quote



I get a little perplexed here, I have always wondered if a standalone pre is better (sound quality wise)than a AVR used as a pre...your thoughts??


So there is nothing wrong with a good AVR like the Denonís, HK, Rotelís etc. It is a good solution that is economical compared to going with a sep. power amp. The only issue with an AVR is its lower power rating. You can only put so much stuff in a box. Stuffing 6 or more channels of amplification, a huge power supply, and all the circuitry of a pre / processor and still being able to put it in an AV rack, it s miracle of modern electrical engineering. However there is a limit to what even the gods can do. Your trade off for this all in one box solution is power output. So depending on your room size, and how loud you like to listen, the output of an AVR may or may not be enough for you.

My view, going with separates will only marginally sound better then a good AVR at low to moderate levels, 100 db or less at the listening position. For most of us, that is loud enough. However if you want to really push the volume to 105 db plus, then the separate power amp (150 wpc or more) will really start to shine over the AVR. I am not saying the AVR canít get you to these levels, it will, but with more distortion, because it is quickly running out of headroom. And this could damage your M80ís. For the record, I donít ever recommend anyone listen at levels over 105 db for long periods of time. This could cause major hearing loss, and if youíre deaf, your M80ís arenít much good to you.
_________________________
paul

Axiom M80, VP180, Qs8, EP500
Panasonic PT-AU900
AudioTrak AT-6100
Denon AVR-990

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#240839 - 01/16/09 08:04 PM Re: M80's on the way, need advice...please [Re: Worfzara]
Worfzara Offline
aficionado

Registered: 07/25/05
Posts: 709
Loc: London area, Ont, Canada
To give you an idea of what type of speakers you just bought, here is a neat story. When I was talking to Ian (the owner of Axiom) a few years ago, he told me that at one of his outdoor parties, he had a live band (elec. Guitars, elec. Bass, drums, keyboard) playing through 4 M80ís. All I could think was, you put a live band through HT/audiofile speakers? Are you insane? He said that as long as the power is clean and there is no clipping, there was no worry of driver damage. Still, I donít know if I would offer my M80ís to the garage band down the street.

The moral of the story, the more power you have, the safer your M80ís will be.

paul
_________________________
paul

Axiom M80, VP180, Qs8, EP500
Panasonic PT-AU900
AudioTrak AT-6100
Denon AVR-990

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#240843 - 01/16/09 08:37 PM Re: M80's on the way, need advice...please [Re: Worfzara]
Wid Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/22/03
Posts: 6720
Loc: The Peoples Republic of Il.
 Quote:
The moral of the story, the more power you have, the safer your M80ís will be.


Well put, I'm a big believer in getting as big a power amp you can comfortably afford.
_________________________
Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud


Top
#240852 - 01/16/09 09:21 PM Re: M80's on the way, need advice...please [Re: Worfzara]
Dduval Offline
devotee

Registered: 01/14/09
Posts: 349
 Originally Posted By: Worfzara
 Originally Posted By: Dduval



I get a little perplexed here, I have always wondered if a standalone pre is better (sound quality wise)than a AVR used as a pre...your thoughts??[/quote


So there is nothing wrong with a good AVR like the Denonís, HK, Rotelís etc. It is a good solution that is economical compared to going with a sep. power amp. The only issue with an AVR is its lower power rating. You can only put so much stuff in a box. Stuffing 6 or more channels of amplification, a huge power supply, and all the circuitry of a pre / processor and still being able to put it in an AV rack, it s miracle of modern electrical engineering. However there is a limit to what even the gods can do. Your trade off for this all in one box solution is power output. So depending on your room size, and how loud you like to listen, the output of an AVR may or may not be enough for you.

My view, going with separates will only marginally sound better then a good AVR at low to moderate levels, 100 db or less at the listening position. For most of us, that is loud enough. However if you want to really push the volume to 105 db plus, then the separate power amp (150 wpc or more) will really start to shine over the AVR. I am not saying the AVR canít get you to these levels, it will, but with more distortion, because it is quickly running out of headroom. And this could damage your M80ís. For the record, I donít ever recommend anyone listen at levels over 105 db for long periods of time. This could cause major hearing loss, and if youíre deaf, your M80ís arenít much good to you.



So Paul,

Man, I really appreciate your insight. So another question, would you say ( I would think anyway) that since I have a separate amp coming, I would have better sound quality with separate pre/pro "or" upgrade to a better AVR to use as a pre/pro? (like a Denon, etc).?
_________________________
M80's, QS8's, M22's, CHT SHO-10, Dual CHT SS-18.1's, Onkyo NR3008, Mitsubishi WD-73740

Top
#240876 - 01/16/09 10:51 PM Re: M80's on the way, need advice...please [Re: Dduval]
Worfzara Offline
aficionado

Registered: 07/25/05
Posts: 709
Loc: London area, Ont, Canada
Now that is a tough queston. In theory it makes sence because now you have a dedicated powersupply for your amp, and a dedicated power supply for your pre / pro with out the added baggage of amplifiers in the same box as your pre / pro. But there are always exceptions to the rule and I have never tested this, I went straight from an AVR to separates. Did it sound better, sure, will my $2000 Rotel pre / pro get barried with me at my funeral, it will if my wife has anything to say about it.

Keep in mind also that it isn't cheap and for most people the imporvment in sound quality isn't worth the thousands of dollars spent to go this route. We are now entering the law of diminishing returns. Spend huge amounts more, and get very little improvment in sound quality.
_________________________
paul

Axiom M80, VP180, Qs8, EP500
Panasonic PT-AU900
AudioTrak AT-6100
Denon AVR-990

Top
#240880 - 01/16/09 10:58 PM Re: M80's on the way, need advice...please [Re: Dduval]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10360
Very good, Dana; you're enjoying excellent sound despite the fact that you were "aware" that the Yamaha would shut down. Again this is an example that a problem shouldn't be assumed. It appears that the Yamaha is fully sufficient for powering your M80s at a sane listening level(be aware that if your "hard drive" exists for more than 4 hours that you should seek technical assistance)and that more maximum power capacity from a separate amplifier would make no difference at all if you don't venture into hearing loss territory. Your receiver delivers audibly flat frequency response with inaudibly low noise and distortion within its designed operating limits. Separate amplifiers or pre-amplifiers can't improve on that, regardless of price. Enjoy.
_________________________
-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#240929 - 01/17/09 09:54 AM Re: M80's on the way, need advice...please [Re: JohnK]
DaveG Offline
aficionado

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 868
Loc: WI

Congrats on recieving your M80s, enjoy.
_________________________
Dave

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#241153 - 01/18/09 10:41 AM Re: M80's on the way, need advice...please [Re: DaveG]
Dduval Offline
devotee

Registered: 01/14/09
Posts: 349
To both Johnk and Worf...

Thanks for your input, I get it 100%

I can see me now, I'll keep upgrading, researching, spending...man, I've been bitten by the bug! I have an addiction!

As with all addictions, the first step is "to admit you have a problem"

"Hello everyone, my name is Dana and I'm an audioholic"

\:\) \:\)
_________________________
M80's, QS8's, M22's, CHT SHO-10, Dual CHT SS-18.1's, Onkyo NR3008, Mitsubishi WD-73740

Top
#241181 - 01/18/09 12:13 PM Re: M80's on the way, need advice...please [Re: Dduval]
doormat Offline
devotee

Registered: 10/28/07
Posts: 395
Loc: Cold Lake, AB
 Originally Posted By: Dduval


"Hello everyone, my name is Dana and I'm an audioholic"

\:\) \:\)


Wrong forum:

Audioholics
_________________________
M80s/VP160/QS8s/EP350; M22s; M3s.

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