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#256786 - 04/14/09 08:22 PM Re: Recommended stereo receiver for M60's. [Re: Mtbound10]
lhulls Offline
veteran

Registered: 10/13/06
Posts: 139
Loc: Niagara Region, Canada
I have always respected Yamaha equipment and do so to this day.
I’m not really familiar with their AVR equipment in surround mode but have read some good reviews and some not so good reviews of their AVR’s, although this can be said of most, if not all equipment that is reviewed by multiple sources.
I do know that the Yamaha’s sound excellent in two channel mode, and they have plenty of balls behind their output stage.
\:\)
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Those who have long enjoyed such privileges as we enjoy forget in time that men died to win them.

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#256790 - 04/14/09 09:15 PM Re: Recommended stereo receiver for M60's. [Re: Mtbound10]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7031
Loc: Canada
 Quote:
For the dollar I do not see how you can get more.

They are certainly the most feature rich avrs out there this year. I was quite excited about them when I started researching. Unfortunately I have M80s and Yamis do not play consistanlty well with 4 ohm loads.

For an 8 ohm speaker, they are probably fine.
_________________________
Fred

-------
Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

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#256801 - 04/14/09 10:25 PM Re: Recommended stereo receiver for M60's. [Re: Mtbound10]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10363
Mt, welcome. No problem at all with the Yamahas as to basic amplification, which can match the Denons, Onkyos, Pioneers, etc. in that regard. When features are considered, in my view the comparison of room equalization systems becomes the deciding factor. The presence of Audyssey in otherwise nearly identically-performing receivers give Denon and Onkyo receivers an edge which leads me to mention them more often.
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-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#256823 - 04/14/09 11:53 PM Re: Recommended stereo receiver for M60's. [Re: JohnK]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13318
Loc: Iowa
I agree John. Yammy and Pioneer does not have the edge when it comes to setup and calibration.
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#256874 - 04/15/09 10:13 AM Re: Recommended stereo receiver for M60's. [Re: fredk]
alan Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/29/02
Posts: 3186
Loc: Toronto/New York/Dwight
Hi all,

I've owned excellent Yamaha stereo gear in years gone by as well as some of their early soundfield processors (prior to the era of Dolby Digital 5.1, etc). Unfortunately in recent years, as FredK has pointed out, there have been issues with some models of Yamaha AV receivers (Pioneer, Sony, Onkyo as well) driving the 4-ohm M80 tower speakers. Because of that history with M80 owners, and also because other inexpensive AV or stereo receivers (Denon, Sherwood Newcastle, Harman-Kardon, Outlaw Audio) have no problems with overheating or shut-down with 4-ohm loads like the M80s, I tend to not recommend Yamaha, Onkyo, or Pioneer receivers for use with any 4-ohm speakers. With 8-ohm or 6-ohm speakers, they're fine.

Regards,

Alan
_________________________
Alan Lofft,
Axiom Resident Expert

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#256888 - 04/15/09 11:30 AM Re: Recommended stereo receiver for M60's. [Re: Zimm]
Zimm Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/08/08
Posts: 1361
Loc: New Orleans
 Originally Posted By: Zimm
It has been proven that Denon amps sound better than Yamaha amps. Just a fact.


Ask FredK and JohnK, they love to explain the inherent sound characteristics of some amps that make them sound better than others. \:\/

[...runs to get flame retardant avitar...]


Damn, all that trolling and chumming the water and not a single bite. \:\)
_________________________
Panny 3000 PJ, 118" Carada, Denon 3300, PS3, Axiom QS8, PSB 5T, B&W sub, levitating speaker wire

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#256983 - 04/15/09 11:23 PM Re: Recommended stereo receiver for M60's. [Re: alan]
Mtbound10 Offline
regular

Registered: 04/14/09
Posts: 9
 Originally Posted By: alan
Hi all,

I've owned excellent Yamaha stereo gear in years gone by as well as some of their early soundfield processors (prior to the era of Dolby Digital 5.1, etc). Unfortunately in recent years, as FredK has pointed out, there have been issues with some models of Yamaha AV receivers (Pioneer, Sony, Onkyo as well) driving the 4-ohm M80 tower speakers. Because of that history with M80 owners, and also because other inexpensive AV or stereo receivers (Denon, Sherwood Newcastle, Harman-Kardon, Outlaw Audio) have no problems with overheating or shut-down with 4-ohm loads like the M80s, I tend to not recommend Yamaha, Onkyo, or Pioneer receivers for use with any 4-ohm speakers. With 8-ohm or 6-ohm speakers, they're fine.

Regards,

Alan


Alan,

I actually emailed one of your reps at Axiom today in regards to the yamaha being able to handle the 4ohm load of the M80's... his response, (and please do not think I am throwing you under the bus if you read this) was that he looked over the yamaha 863 manual and based on what he found felt that the yamaha 863 would have no issue driving the M80's...

I do not want to start a debate over this but I am interested in hearing more in regards to the science behind this reasoning and what your take on the situation is besides previous experience as well as everyone elses approach...

Alan you also mentioned that you have used yamaha receivers in the past... how long ago and what models? Based on what I have read the yamaha's have had a pretty good overhauling over the past few years alone... The amplifier in the 863 is the same that they came out with last year or the year before I believe due to the fact that it is a proven amp and works well under "pressure"?

I am as they say... all ears ;\)
_________________________
Yam 863
Pan 50 Plasma
EMP compacts and sub
Pan BD30

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#256985 - 04/15/09 11:40 PM Re: Recommended stereo receiver for M60's. [Re: Mtbound10]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13318
Loc: Iowa
Alan and Brent are on the same team, I think Alan is the boss and makes the rules. \:\)

Axiom did many tests in their lab in the past. Denon, HK, SN, and a few others proved to have no issues. Yamaha, Onkyo, to name a few, had issues.

All receivers can drive the m80's, the question is to what levels you push them before the built in circuitry protects them. Current models from Onkyo, Pioneer, and Yamaha have proven to be more compatible.
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#257011 - 04/16/09 08:16 AM Re: Recommended stereo receiver for M60's. [Re: SirQuack]
Mtbound10 Offline
regular

Registered: 04/14/09
Posts: 9
 Originally Posted By: sirquack
Alan and Brent are on the same team, I think Alan is the boss and makes the rules. \:\)

Axiom did many tests in their lab in the past. Denon, HK, SN, and a few others proved to have no issues. Yamaha, Onkyo, to name a few, had issues.

All receivers can drive the m80's, the question is to what levels you push them before the built in circuitry protects them. Current models from Onkyo, Pioneer, and Yamaha have proven to be more compatible.


I figured they work together, and I am sure they are both very qualified to answer the question which is why I was thrown off by their contrast in answers making me hesitant to validate either answer as right or wrong. I was not made aware of any testing and until I got a response from Brent after he took the time to actually look at the manual for the 863 (which as a future customer I find VERY appealing) most of the responses in regards to this question of Ohms sounded more like doubt and or peronal preference in regards to the performance of the Yamaha recievers compared to that of their own. from very knowledgable audiophiles either here or at Audioholics... My major concern of course was doing damage to my brand new receiver which I still have quite a bit to learn about. Because of this I want to be sure and knowledgable about what I am attaching to my receiver to be able to make a smart choice.

With that being said please do not take any of my comments, questions or concerns as disrespectful or inconsiderate... ;\)

Cheers!


Edited by Mtbound10 (04/16/09 08:18 AM)
_________________________
Yam 863
Pan 50 Plasma
EMP compacts and sub
Pan BD30

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#257016 - 04/16/09 08:45 AM Re: Recommended stereo receiver for M60's. [Re: Mtbound10]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13318
Loc: Iowa
We are not looking at your post as being disrespectful or inconsiderate, if you feel that way. These are questions that come up all the time. Most of us have been around long enough to remember the days when certain brand receivers didn't play nice with 4ohm rated speakers. It is not just Axiom, but other brands as well.

You won't harm your receiver, it has built in circuitry to go into protective mode if needed.
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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