Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Technical Questions Room acoustics

Hmm, so if getting a bigger amplifier won't help much, and larger speakers might not help much either, I'm not sure what to try next.

AS for the DACs, I was using the digital out on the dvd player, and the analog out on the cd player. So I was in fact seeing a difference between the DAC of the Receiver, and the DAC of the cd player. Maybe the transport of the cd player compared to the transport of the cheap dvd player make some difference? The sound is definately better with the Marantz 6000 cd player hooked up over RCA cinch cables, compared to the dvd player hooked up digitally.

As for a small sound, I mean that the bottom end seems to be lacking. The speakers can go deep enough, but there seems to be some ummmpf missing. I wonder if my big-ass room just sucks the bass out of the speakers...

I'm not familiar with the B&W DM602s and you have already had a lot of good advice here but I'll add in another thought to consider.

About 4 or 5 weeks ago, a work acquaintance invited me over to troubleshoot his PC, a skill I'm getting less skilled at and less tolerant of, as the years go by. We got chatting and he commented on his stereo setup in his very large, cathedral ceiling room. A lot of open space, wood walls and glass everywhere. He had a similar complaint. His desk area was near the back away from the stereo and he felt he had to turn it up way too loud to hear it properly. He complained of the same fatigue symptoms.

He demonstrated the sound from his JBL floorstanders and to me, they were sounding very thin. I don't think bright is the right word but they definately lacked what I will call richness. I can see why he would be tempted to turn it up but when he did for just a short period, I could already tell I'd become fatigued after a while.

My highly unprofessional guess was that a good, strongly sized subwoofer would help to fill in the richness that seemed to be missing. On a whim that only can come about when you combine two men with beer, we took his minivan and the two of us went through the torture driving 10 minutes to my house and carrying my EP500 up from my basement and delivering it to his living room. I also intended to take my db meter but forgot it after sweating the trip up my basement stairs with the sub.

With just tweaking by ear, the EP500 definitely seemed to fill out what was missing. He went from cranking it to -10 on his amp to listen in the back of the room to -21. It was still slightly loud but not only was it not stupidly loud anymore but it sounded much more full and lifelike. Something you could definitely listen to for hours and stay relaxed. I ended up leaving it there with him for the weekend so he could demonstrate to his wife.

Hopefully, I've inspired an Axiom purchase but his brother who sold him the JBLs owns an AV store in Vancouver, so I probably not.

Just another angle to consider. Maybe you don't need more power, just something to fill in the gaps.

If you were using two different input-types from the two players, you're comparing apples to oranges...

It sure sounds like you need a good sub to compliment your speakers. It could be a combination of a big room and the natural roll-off of the speakers.

Thanks for all the excellent and thought out answers you guys. I really appreciate it.

I think I have to agree that probably the best solution is to get a sub. That way I shouldn't have to crank up the volume too much, and potentially damage something. I did get to try an 8" down-firing sub from Elac (german brand), but it sounds a bit sloppy.

Can anyone suggest a nice clean sub to try, for the dimensions of my living room?

thanks!

-Tom

Well, the EP350 is fantastic, or you could look at something from Hsu Research or SVS. Elemental Designs is supposed to be pretty good, but I don't know if anyone on these forums actually has heard them.

My EP500 from Axiom would do a great job of filling that size space. EXTREMELY powerful when required but blends smoothly for music.
I'm done lending it out though so you will have to buy your own.

Axiom, SVS and HSU seem to be the most talked about models around here but the Axiom EP500 is the only one of this caliber I have actually listened to.

I think the point was that moving up to 115 watts won't make any real difference over the 90 you have. Try moving up to 300 or more and see if that gives you what you need. It worked for me. Cheapest route, go to a guitar center or other pro sound place with a satisfaction guarantee. Drop a two channel pro amp ($500 and up) into your system and see if you get what you are missing - if not, bring it back!
But be careful, I don't know your B&W's but the extra power did force my PSB tower's bass driver to hit full extension at moderate-high levels (95-ish) on Dire Straits, etc. Never had that happen before even at much higher SPL (105) on my Denon 3300. So you could punt your woofer into your lap if you are not careful. (This gives me a new appreciation of the Axiom M-80 running with 1200 watts outside. My PSB's could not do that, no chance.)
I recommend the QSC GX3 or GX5 as they have unbalanced inputs so you don't need a XLR-RCA adaptor, which introduced a 60hz hum when used in my system.

I found this review of the B&W's, looks like they are similar to the M3's. So they should be offering a sense of bass but would be lacking true bass and could very well leave you wanting more in your size of room. Get that sub.

I think even the lower end sub offerings from Axiom would work better than just the 2 bookshelf speakers alone. As was mentioned, the EP350 is a very good sub for the money and it can give you some good impact if you ever get into HT.

Hi dmbartender,

I just looked up the specs on your B&W speakers, and they are way too small for your big space. It's no surprise that there is no bottom end. I thought those were floorstanding speakers!

Anyway, I'd term those B&W's as just OK, not in the same league as the Axiom M80s v2s or M60v2 floorstanders. (The latter models are comparable to the expensive B&W 800 series.)

The average living room is 2,100 cu. ft. Given the volume of your room, you should consider the M80s or M60s and a subwoofer like the EP500.

Regards,

Alan