Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion The Water Cooler Michael Jackson Dead

Apparently Michael Jackson has passed away... story from cnn.

Sad day. First Farrah Fawcett , and now probably Michael Jackson. Wow.

this doesn't bode well for his UK concert......

Yep, a sad day.

But tickets are still available. There were links right at the bottome of a couple of articles I found on his death. Funny, in a twisted sort of way.

Ed McMahon died on Tue. so I guess they still always go in 3's.

How will you remember him?

As the "King of Pop"...one of the most popular artists of all time?

Or as a guy who got really strange, had lots of plastic surgery, bleached his skin, and molested children?

I will remember him by this catchy tune

The training wheels come off your bike you start to notice boys you like, he he he. (The Simpsons)

Does Carradine make it 4's, so we can expect two more to get it back to multiples of 3?

nothing like death to revitalize a music career...alive creepy pedophile, dead cultural icon and all around amazing human being.

The bummer is that you need that first reputation to have that potential. Bad news for me.

We'll remember you as that weird guy that produced the Medusa Head bags.

still has the biggest selling album of all time, and I own it...

And, you own that own it, which is impressive self-confidence.

I liked him in the Jackson 5 but he was ok on his own. To much of a damn freak imo. I can't say I have any respect at all for him.

Ditto, Rick.

and there is what the media wants you to think.

Sorry to say Randy but no media needs to be involved. Listen to him and watch him and if that doesn't scream the boy ain't right then I don't know what to say.

....and let's not forget that Jackson payed out $25 mill to the parents of the allegedly molested child years ago. I'm sure an innocent person would fight such a serious accusation tooth and nail rather than be branded a pedophile.

I can't comment on how being that successful through the years could affect you, it is not a normal life and your surrounded by good and bad influences. Yeah, he was a little odd during is later years, but I can also think of many other performers/actors that aren't exactly what I would call normal.

As far as having the means for paying someone to keep it out of the courts, that does not prove he is guilty. It could mean it didn't want to go through many years of trials, appeals, and ultimately stand to lose a lot more money. The key work was "alleged".

A greater portion of his adult life was spent as a freakshow celebrity than as a relevant artist.

Bea Arthur?

And that Vegas guy.

I can honestly say that I am not effected in any way by his death (or most celebs for that matter). It doesn't mean that I don't feel bad for the families that are grieving, but they are still *just* people after all.

I know that most people disagree with me, and that's cool. I'm not saying that people can't be sad or whatever, just that even if a celeb that I actually really enjoyed their entertainment, I'd miss their entertainment but that's about it... Sorry does go out to you die hard fans though.

I can't say I ever listened to his music or ever will but he is probably the most popular musician (sigh) worldwide...errr singer/dancer to die since John Lennon. He has certainly left a mark in music history.

I'm with you Nick. The exception will be Niel Young, but thats because he inspired me to pick up the guitar.

I'm with Nick and Fred, with exception to those who are concerned with the betterment of humanity.

As has been said, I've never been that big into his adult career, but I did listen to a best of the Jackson 5 CD coincidentally earlier in the week and have to admit he was extraordinarily talented as a child.

I DO think it's sad the way society has a tendency to make celebrities so much bigger than life and then, once they're big, tear them down because they're too big.

For all his adult weirdness, and I HAVE been vocal about that weirdness to friends over the years, I try to remember that it's likely that we made him that way. How easy it must be to lose touch with reality when you're under a microscope since your childhood, have access to virtually unlimited money, are surrounded by "yes men", idolized by the public, and separated from them at the same time.

I'm not defending him, but I DO think it's us that made him that way.

Will all due respect Mark, saying that anyone but himself is responsible for his own actions is, well imo ridiculous .

We as a society should take personal responsibility a bit more serious. To blame anyone else for ones actions is a cop out.

Mark, I agree.

When I was 9 or 10 I really liked the Jackson 5, and listened to ABC123, I'll Be There, etc. No Disco collection would be complete without Off The Wall, and Thriller was influential in the whole 80s MTV genre. It's remarkable that he was so big in so may eras, but I can't say I listen to any of his stuff anymore.

What I find fascinating though, is that he was the prime example of this cultural phenomenon of celebrity worship. Primarily American, but to some degree a worldwide phenomenon, we tend to worship celebrities, and celebrity, some to the point of living vicariously through them. This tends to ruin them as people. The most recent example of this is Lindsay Lohan. It's fascinating to watch, like a trainwreck.

Rick, aren't "personal responsibility" and "society" kind of mutually exclusive? I mean, we can each take responsibility for ourselves, and if everyone did that society would be better off, but I can't take personal responsibility for all of society. To do that would require imposing my will on others, or subjecting my will to theirs.

I'm a HUGE believer in people taking responsibility for their own octions. I can't stand to see people sue McD's because they didn't know coffee was hot, or parents not letting kids take responsibility when they get into trouble.

But if you lock up a man in solitary for thirty years, you gotta figure he's not going to be "right" when released. It's a bit of an extreme example, but I didn't think MJ's reality was anywhere near "real", so who am I to say that it didn't affect him?

Again, I'm not really defending him (and absolutely not if the molestation charge was legit).... I'm just talking the weird skin-lightening and plastic surgery-type weirdness.

I think as a society we have drifted away from taking responsibility for ourselves. If we were to reverse this trend imo we would be better off.

Ditto, Rick.

I also wholeheartedly believe in meliorism.

As long as I can still blame my parents for my looks, we're all good.

One could also say that the Jacksons, particularily Michael, never had a true childhood. How many times have we heard of kids being pushed/forced into showbiz by gold stricken parents? Just like Elvis, I'm sure Jackson(and other celebs) are surrounded by people who don't have their interests at heart.

It is all about $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ for the rich and famous. whether your talking about managers, producers, or doctors.

Michael Jackson's father interviewed on the red carpet, two days after his son's death. He is doing "great", has a publicist read a statement (yes he's standing right beside her) and even plugs his new record label. Oh yes, remember that "his family just lost the biggest superstar in the world".... NOT A SON!!

Wow!! To say that things are a little odd is an understatement.

Video

I think it's fairly safe to say that that man's an ass.

Couldn't have put it any better myself!

Why do you thing poor Michael was as screwed up as he was? The poor kid never had anything even resembling a normal childhood or adolescence, and dear old Dad probably was a major factor in that situation.

Though I readily acknowledge his talent, I was never a MJ fan, personally or professionally. But, I would never wish so unnatural a life on anyone. He paid a terrible price for the fame and success.

I agree, Jack. What a messed up life.

I've been less affected by his death than most of my friends. To me, the real Michael Jackson was dead long ago, or at least in such a state that I tuned out as if he were dead.

Is Michael the only child in the family that had a poor upbringing? With exception to LaToya, the rest of the family turned out "normal" (whatever that means nowadays).

I don't think it's right to excuse his actions as an adult because of his misfortune as a child. Setting a precedent like that, I would have to apply it to any person that does any wrongdoing or anything that would be perceived as being weird; I believe in uniformity.

Just my opinion, and I don't want to create tensions with anyone that has an antithetical view.

What an excellent post Cam!

He was the only one who was 5 when it started, and easily the most successful. We are all products of our environment; that doesn't excuse us from personal responsibility, though.

I mostly agree with your post wheelz999, however not every person biology is the same. I watched last night Martin Bashir 2003 MJ interviews; Michael was clearly suffering from severe mental health problems. I'm no psychiatrist so I could be way off here, but I think most mental health problems are biological in nature. Yes, upbringing circumstances could exacerbated those problems, but not every sibling has the same biology as Michaels' so it's not surprising seen more adjusted siblings than other given the same upbringing.

I just think it’s sad that his death has obscured Farah’s death. She was an American Icon who deserves more press and grieving than MJ. Did any middle aged man not have her poster on his wall when growing up???

Ron Howard seems to be pretty normal.

But if you threw Ron Howard under the roof of Joe Jackson (No, not that one, you know, Michael's Dad), what would you get? I can't claim to know the answer. I just like asking questions.

Bingo, good post Cam.

Tito Jackson?

See, and Tito's not a big-shot Hollywood director. Case closed.

What Michael went through is hardly an apples to apples comparison to the other siblings. I don't think Jack is talking about "just" his early childhood, but his success later in life, and his smothering surroundings.

I suppose if you were worth close to the Billions mark in your life, everyone would leave you alone.

It is easy for us to make opinions about a lifestyle we will never know.

Chill, Randy, we're just joking around. It's something we do, mouthing off about all sorts of stuff. You're right, it's hard to imagine his life. So many handlers, wanna-bes, hangers-on, etc, that I'm sure it's hard for somebody in his situation to tell who is really looking out for his best interests.

I'm reminded of Britney Spears' current situation. She seems particularly ill-equipped mentally to handle fame, and that hanger-on Sam Lufti used her big time. She may very well have a serious mental illness, and at least seems very gullible/impressionable/daft. The courts had to intervene on her behalf and appoint her father guardian of her estate.

It's very heavy stuff to be declared unfit to manage your own estate, so I'm not sure that this could have or should have happened with MJ, but his final years certainly sound like they were pretty miserable. Certainly, if he is felt to be a competent person. i.e. has legal capacity to care for himself, then he bears responsibility for himself.

Again, what a sad, sorry mess his life became.

Cam, my post was not meant to "excuse" Michael for his behavior. It was meant as a partial explanation of why he was what he was. I firmly believe that, at some point in our lives, no matter what mistakes our parents have made, we ultimately must take full responsibility for who and what we are.

Ken, JaimeG, and J.P all made salient points.

Randy, thanks for "getting" what I meant.

Mike. Couldn't agree more with your point. Was talking, last night, with a friend who said exactly the same thing. Farrah made a courageous fight for life and deserved to be front and center because of it. Sad to see her upstaged.

Yea, no kidding Mike.

Man I've spent many a night dreaming about that woman ... RIP Farrah!

On a serious note, here is a great interview with Michael Jackson, MJ Interview

I agree with you on that one Mike, glad I still have one of those posters in safe keeping.

Highest selling poster of all time.

Women have nipples!

At the age I was when the poster was popular, to me it was more like "nipples have women!"....

I remember as a pre-teen going to the mall each week to see if they had a new Farrah poster available. She was a lot smarter than people gave her credit for as well.

My sister was a huge Michael Jackson fan and my brother and I used to tease her mercilessly. We were more Led Zeppelin, Kiss and Black Sabbath fans. I do remember the days of watching his new MTV videos with anticipation and awe. He was talented without a doubt.

RIP to both.

But he put that shit up like....
And women go:



Sing ! 'cos all you got to do is sing.



Michael Jackson, who can sing,
and is a good looking guy.



But ain't the most masculine fellow
in the world.



That's Michael's hook, his sensivity !



That's when women be sayin:
"Michael's just so sensitive..."



And they eat that shit up. Mike knows.



He be using women. I've seen Mike walk up to a
girl and they'd be in the audience and say:



"Is it allright if I come down there to sing to you..."



And women go: "Whaaaaa !"



Then, if you don't scream, Michael
gets really sensitive and cries on your ass.



Ever hear that record "She's out of my life" ?



"Tito, give me some tissues."



"Jermaine, stop teasing."


(Eddie Murphy, 1983)

Well, the new issue of Rolling Stone has a short article about Michael Jackson's upcoming tour, and how it's his last chance at a career comeback.

!!!??? Michael Jackson is DEAD????? Just kidding. I will say that if I actually watched much TV, I would be tired of the Media Frenzy by now. Every time I walk past the monitors here at work, there is something about MJ.....Rob