Re: Dolby TrueHD and DTS Master HD question
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Joined: Sep 2008
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connoisseur
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connoisseur
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I always check in the player to see if the lossless soundstrack True HD or DTS Master is actually being played. There have been a few movies such as Batman Begins and The Dark Night and maybe a few others in which the regular DD 5.1 soundtrack is default and you have to switch to the lossless each time.
I’m armed and I’m drinking. You don’t want to listen to advice from me, amigo.
-Max Payne
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Re: Dolby TrueHD and DTS Master HD question
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 200
local
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local
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 200 |
There should be an option for PCM in your presets (buried in the Onkyo menus). You can choose this for straight, non 'messed with' sound from your new BD player. Or, you can choose any of the DSP's (Dolby PLII, THX whatever, etc.).
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Re: Dolby TrueHD and DTS Master HD question
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 552
aficionado
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OP
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Skerdi, long time no see. Yes, the PCM indication on your receiver is correct. Since the player is decoding the True HD or Master HD to PCM, the receiver has no way of knowing how it originally started out before being decoded. You're getting whatever audio quality may or may not be present in the Blu-ray. As Chris mentioned, the audio difference between the loss-less formats and the improved lossy DD and DTS content has been shown in blind testing to be nearly indistinguishable, so don't expect to hear a significant difference unless the particular disc wasn't processed equally well.
Hi John, good to see that you are still around here. I used to always read and enjoy your posts. Thank you for the reply.
Axiom M60s, QS4s, VP100 Onkyo TX-SR804 Oppo 970HD
Rotel RB-1080/RCD-1072 REL Q150E sub, PS 3
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Re: Dolby TrueHD and DTS Master HD question
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,444 Likes: 16
connoisseur
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connoisseur
Joined: Jul 2004
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As Chris mentioned, the audio difference between the loss-less formats and the improved lossy DD and DTS content has been shown in blind testing to be nearly indistinguishable, so don't expect to hear a significant difference unless the particular disc wasn't processed equally well. In all fairness John, I recall reading results of a blind listening test or two where the listeners could tell a difference, and the nod was given to the high rez tracks. I know that in my set up, I can tell whenever the BR disk is playing the standard sound track. When I switch over to the high res track, the difference is beyond doubt. Enough so that I can’t help but wonder what folks are smoking when they make claims to the contrary. Now all that being said, I have numerous BR disks with downright horrible High Rez sound tracks. Just because the BR has DD-HD or DST-HD on the cover, that does not guaranty high quality audio.
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Re: Dolby TrueHD and DTS Master HD question
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 552
aficionado
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OP
aficionado
Joined: Apr 2005
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As Chris mentioned, the audio difference between the loss-less formats and the improved lossy DD and DTS content has been shown in blind testing to be nearly indistinguishable, so don't expect to hear a significant difference unless the particular disc wasn't processed equally well. In all fairness John, I recall reading results of a blind listening test or two where the listeners could tell a difference, and the nod was given to the high rez tracks. I know that in my set up, I can tell whenever the BR disk is playing the standard sound track. When I switch over to the high res track, the difference is beyond doubt. Enough so that I can’t help but wonder what folks are smoking when they make claims to the contrary. Now all that being said, I have numerous BR disks with downright horrible High Rez sound tracks. Just because the BR has DD-HD or DST-HD on the cover, that does not guaranty high quality audio. Hi there! I remember you buying a Marantz receiver capable of 1.1 HDMI passthrough. Do you still have it or upgraded? If you still have it, are you still able to get the high rez formats by letting your BD player do the decoding? It appears that you can tell the difference between the "old" and new High rez formats.
Axiom M60s, QS4s, VP100 Onkyo TX-SR804 Oppo 970HD
Rotel RB-1080/RCD-1072 REL Q150E sub, PS 3
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Re: Dolby TrueHD and DTS Master HD question
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 14
frequent flier
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frequent flier
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As Chris mentioned, the audio difference between the loss-less formats and the improved lossy DD and DTS content has been shown in blind testing to be nearly indistinguishable, so don't expect to hear a significant difference unless the particular disc wasn't processed equally well. In all fairness John, I recall reading results of a blind listening test or two where the listeners could tell a difference, and the nod was given to the high rez tracks. I know that in my set up, I can tell whenever the BR disk is playing the standard sound track. When I switch over to the high res track, the difference is beyond doubt. Enough so that I can’t help but wonder what folks are smoking when they make claims to the contrary. Now all that being said, I have numerous BR disks with downright horrible High Rez sound tracks. Just because the BR has DD-HD or DST-HD on the cover, that does not guaranty high quality audio. I known I can hear the difference almost immediately, but like any audio differentiation I think it takes a certain amount of "training" of the ear. I doubt most people would notice a big difference initially, but after listening to great BD lossless tracks for a while and I'm sure they would begin to notice. I think the primary differentiator is that it takes more work/skill to mix an outstanding lossy track than to mix a great sounding lossless track. In mixing both you need to be aware of spatial positioning and depth of the track, but with lossy tracks you need to also be very aware of dynamic range, compression artifacts, etc... all the standard issues linked with lossy compression. There's simply more to get right and consequently more that can go wrong. I've heard both great lossy and lousy lossless mixes. But, I'm willing to bet that as a percentage per track type, there are more great sounding lossless mixes than lossy ones. Lossless audio allows the sound engineer to focus on the soundscape and ambience, and forget about the technical challenges associated with lossy compression. All that being said, I don't know why studios don't just go LPCM everywhere? Why even bother with DTS-HD MA or TrueHD? Same end results and with the storage capacity of BD it's not like space is an issue...
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Re: Dolby TrueHD and DTS Master HD question
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,116
connoisseur
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connoisseur
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I find the dynamic range to be better overall as well as the clarity in dialogue. The surrounds seem "more alive" as well but it is less noticable. The biggest thing for me is the dynamic range.
I’m armed and I’m drinking. You don’t want to listen to advice from me, amigo.
-Max Payne
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Re: Dolby TrueHD and DTS Master HD question
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 25
hobbyist
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hobbyist
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I find the dynamic range to be better overall as well as the clarity in dialogue. The surrounds seem "more alive" as well but it is less noticable. The biggest thing for me is the dynamic range. I agree completely. I believe them to be clearer, with more detail in them.
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Re: Dolby TrueHD and DTS Master HD question
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Joined: Feb 2009
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All that being said, I don't know why studios don't just go LPCM everywhere? Why even bother with DTS-HD MA or TrueHD? Same end results and with the storage capacity of BD it's not like space is an issue... Storage capacity is only part of the issue. The bigger factor is the maximum allowed bitrate of a BD is 36 megabit/sec. A 7.1, 48 kHz, 24-bit PCM track takes over 9 Mbps by itself. Adding multiple languages would quickly use up all the available bandwidth, leaving nothing for the video or subtitle tracks. Dolby's and DTS's lossless compression can easily achieve a 25% reduction, and routinely exceed 50%.
Last edited by ClubNeon; 07/08/09 05:05 PM. Reason: Added the 48/24 rate to the PCM info.
Pioneer PDP-5020FD, Marantz SR6011 Axiom M5HP, VP160HP, QS8 Sony PS4, surround backs -Chris
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Re: Dolby TrueHD and DTS Master HD question
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,116
connoisseur
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connoisseur
Joined: Sep 2008
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I find the dynamic range to be better overall as well as the clarity in dialogue. The surrounds seem "more alive" as well but it is less noticable. The biggest thing for me is the dynamic range. I agree completely. I believe them to be clearer, with more detail in them. I agree especially with speakers like Axiom, they really benefit IMO. Gun shots I find sound soooooo good especially the final gunshot blast by the bank manager in The Dark Night , little details such as the shotgun shell hitting the floor sound so clear and deatailed, it feels like you are in the bank with the Joker . The whole first part of that movie is just incredible.
I’m armed and I’m drinking. You don’t want to listen to advice from me, amigo.
-Max Payne
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