Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Just set up my new epic80-500 system in 7.1

Just saying hello to all the other axiom owners out there. I have been lurking on this forum now for quite some time; it and a years worth of internet research and demoing speakers has prompted me to buy an axiom system.

I went with the epic80-500 system in 7.1 powered by my Denon 3808which will be used for 95% movies/video games and some casual music listening. I finished up the install last night with ceiling mounting the QS8’s. Running the wires in my 4 foot peak height attic was a pain to say the least. I was crawling around up there for over 3 hours!! I certainly think it was worth it for my situation where the couch is ¾ into the room and running stands and wires would result in accidents!

My first impressions of the system are very positive but I will leave any real review until I have had time to properly break in the speakers and run audessy. The short story is I watched some Band of Brothers in 5.1 DTS and the system was great if levelling and synchronization problems are ignored. I couldn’t watch a blue ray as my PS3 died last week I haven’t got my replacement yet.

My only complaint is lack of base. This may disappear with proper setup. As for the base sound it was super clean with no booming or muddiness, probably the best I have personally heard. I was wondering if the 500 would be enough sub for my room when I ordered the system so only time will tell. The listening area is 28 X 22 X 8.5 or just over 5000 ft^3. The thing is my home is open concept so there is only a ¼ length wall separating it from the kitchen/dinning room which is 26 X 28 X 8.5 or over 6000 ft^3. 12000 ft^3 of open air might be a little much for the 500. The rooms are all laminate with many windows i.e not ideal. My only downfall is I snuck the sub in under the wife’s nose, she thought that I was only getting towers and a few small surrounds like the HTIB’s she has seen and we have previously owned. She was not pleased when the huge boxes showed up! She likes the towers but detests the sub so a second 500 or even a single 800 is not in the cards.

I’ll post some pics in the gallery soon.

I can’t wait to crank this system up!!!!!


Osborne

Welcome Osborne. That sounds like a very nice setup. You have a very big space to fill and you would definately benefit from another sub. Sounds like you will have a major challenge 'sneaking' another sub in though. Long term, I wonder if there is a way to build a sub in somewhere so it is not so conspicuous?

Post some pics when you get a chance.

Congrats on the instal brother, sounds like you really spent a lot of time getting it done. I wish you would have started talking to us earlier, maybe we could have been of some help while you were picking out your speakers? For that size room (with the kitchen included) it might be hard to fill it with bass if you are REALLY into bass, ya know? Axiom doesn't make 'IN YOUR FACE' subwoofers so much as they make accurate and refined subwoofers. So if you were wanting A LOT of thunder, then you might have been better served with another company for your subwoofer needs.

However, take your time, set everything up right, and give the EP500 a chance to grow on you. In the end you just might decide you like the bass it puts out after all. But by all means, if after 30 days you aren't happy with it, then send it back and get yourself something that does satisfy your bass desires. You might try SVS or someone else that stuffs a lot of 'BOOM' into a fairly small footprint that your wife might like better? Funny thing about women and audio, they always seem more concerned with the asthetics then the sound. Can't have a 'big, ugly box' sitting around in their livingroom, no matter how great it may sound, right? Ha ha...

Keep us posted friend, welcome to the site. You will find many a helpful suggestion around here if you give us a chance. Don't be shy, we LOVE newcomers. And we truely want to help you get the most out of your system, even if that means suggesting something other than Axiom. Even though the regulars here do enjoy Axiom products, we try to be as unbias as possible. For instance, my beliefs go like this...

Axiom floor, center, and surround speakers offer A LOT of bang for your buck.

Axiom subwoofers offer bang for a lot of buck.

Axiom amps offer A LOT of buck for your bang.

Hope to hear from you soon.

Welcome osborne!

Looking forward to the pictures of your new system. If you have any questions on setup let us know.

Congrats!

There aren't too many subs that are both musical and also good for HT. The Axioms, from what I've read and from what owners have stated(I don't own one), are one of a handfull of subs that do both well.

You are correct. And that is the 'finesse' that is an Axiom subwoofer. However, when you say 'do both WELL', you must keep in mind that not everyone's definition of 'well' is the same. There are those who really want the bass to stop their hearts from beating. Problem is, that isn't how much music is recorded (besides some rap music), and Axiom speakers are all about recreating the original performance. So Axiom subwoofers don't move the furniture around like some people might expect.

There are so many subwoofers on the market that inflate the bass to a point that is way over the top from what the original recording intended. For instance, I've been to many a Dave Matthews concert. And while there is certainly bass present at these events, it's not nearly as strong as it is on some peoples home stereo setups I've heard. But people get used to this experience. A lot of home stereo systems are as 'over bassed' as American television is 'over sexed'. And people get used to this, and then expect it.

Then they buy a system like the Axiom Epic 80/800 and come here asking, "where's the bass"??? It's there, but it's recreating the bass as it was intended, as it was recorded. It's not being fed steroids before consuming you like other manufacturers do. But you know what, that's what some people have become accustomed to, and they don't want the bass recreated 'as it was intended'. And my honest opinion is if that's what they're after, then they should probably consider another company for their bass needs.

But I would strongly suggest getting to know what 'real' bass is like for the 30 day trial period before doing so. Once you've toned down your expectation for 'over the top' bass, you might just dig the way Axiom subwoofers reproduce it.

Better to beg forgiveness than ask permission. So what’s it gonna cost ya to smooth it over?

Couple thing to try if you haven’t already.

Calibrate everything and listen for a while. If your use to boomy bass it’ might just be that you need to adjust to the cleaner nature of it.

If that doesn’t help pump up the volume on the sub.

Try corner loading the sub. Though this might cause boominess.

Set your M80s to large and use sub + mains feature play bass from all three sources.

Combine some of these.

But calibrate first to you have a good baseline to make changes from, and can judge what each change is doing.

Micah, I doubt there is anything special about Axiom subs in creating bass "as it was intended" compared to some other fine sub companies. You can crank up any fine sub including Axiom's so that your home stereo is over bassed. Just my opinion.
Bill

Sure you can turn up an Axiom sub, but even on full blast my EP800 does not have the same SPL as my old JBL PB12 250 watt downfiring subwoofer from back in the day. Mind you those were the days when all I cared about was feeling my music pounding through my chest cavity. I didn't care about accuracy, depth or tightness... which is a good thing, because the PB12 couldn't do any of those things very well. It was sloppy, it didn't hit the really, really low notes, and half the time I couldn't even distinguish what instrument it was reproducing as anything and everything it played pretty much made the same exact 'thud' sound. But it was LOUD God Damn It!!!! Seriously loud, it thundered FAT bass out at you in an evil, sinister way. Oh it impressed the heck out of all my drinking buddies (this was the 1st sub I owned when I was in my mid 20's), but then again none of us had any clue what a reference subwoofer even was???

Put it next to my EP800 and I'm afraid you wouldn't even hear the poor Axiom sub... not to worry though, because you likely wouldn't hear the M80's, VP150 or QS8's either. It's brute force vs finesse. You see when the EP800 reproduces a pipe organ, you can actually TELL that it's reproducing a pipe organ, fancy that. In fact while it's belting out musical notes, you can distinguish one musical instrument from another... simply amazing! It doesn't just go 'BOOM BOOM BOOM' all the live long day, it actually speaks to you. Oh yes, it is an audiophile subwoofer.

Turn the EP500 or 800 up as far as you like, it will never match the shear force some other subs can hit you with, but that's not what it was designed to do. But this is why I feel some people who are moving up from a sub similar to my JBL PB12 look at a $1500 dollar Axiom sub (I believe the JBL ran me somewhere in the neighborhood of $400 dollars) and think, "wow, that thing must be able to blow the windows clean out of their sills"!!! And when it doesn't they are disappointed without ever getting to know what real bass is supposed to sound like. This is the difference I'm speaking of.

Very true, but you will find that different companies optimize their subs for different things. There are always trade offs in design. For instance, you can push a sub to reach 3 or 3 Hz lower at the expense of upper bass headroom/dynamics. I can't remember who it was here, but one of the members that compared the EP600 and the PB13 ultra preferred the 600 for music and the PB13 for movies. There were subtle differences that lead to the preferences.

Thanks for all the compliments and support guys.

I spent the morning trying to equalize my system. I am afraid that my initial thought might be correct.

After running audessy a number of times it always came back with the same result for the sub. it kept saying plus 12 through 5 db. I started the dial at 9 o'clock and went through multiple tries and sub locations. I have it now turned all the way up with the trim setting at 0 db. When running audessy at this setting it still shows plus 5 db as the trim setting I should use.

I did craw around the room listening for a good spot for the sub with the sub in place of the couch, the corner where it is now is a decent spot.

So anyone have any options for maybe picking the performance up a bit? Room treatments are out by the way, W.A.F. comes into effect.

As for performance of the sub in every other respect I am more than pleased. I have heard louder subs and even a number of 300-500 dollar subs which have more output. But as was said earlier the quality of sound was not there. They rattled and vibrated, really colouring the sound. There was high output but no detail. After watching 3 movies today in DTS and listening to a number of C.D.'s the 500 is very good. While i do want slam and presence I do not want muddy crappy sound that vibrates the floor for the sake of rattling dishes. I do feel I could use more output. As some of you here are afflicted with the same addiction to base as I am you can never have to much. Ideally I would like to balance the system and then bring the volume up a bit more on the sub to bring the bass up a little more.

Osborne

Osborne:

It seems like that sub should be putting out a lot more.

Excuse the biggy picture but do you have the sub connected to the SW out on your 3808 like this:


I have a SVS sub with less power in a room that has about approximately the same volume as yours. With the sub volume at 12 o'clock my Denon sets it to -2 db. Something seems wrong with your setup maybe. Just an idea...

This is exactly the situation I refered to. I know went through your head when you first fired up the EP500... "That's it"??? As good as it sounded, it seemed to be lacking a little something, and that something was... VOLUME!!! You said it in the beginning of your post, you've heard louder subs costing $300 - $500 dollars. As I said in my post, many people are conditioned by these high output/highly distorted subwoofers that cost very little. They are the subs most of us start out with since they're all we can afford when we're first starting out.

So when we feast our eyes on something like the EP500 with its remarkable size, the substantial weight, the magnificent finish and of course the sizable price tag (expecially for a mail-order company), its only natural to assume that it's going to knock us clean out of our socks. I think the subtle approach Axioms line of subwoofers takes really shocks people at first. I've only been around for 3 quarters of a year and I've seen many a post that starts, "I think something is wrong with my subwoofer"...

What's wrong is that our expectations were preset at unrealistic levels by subwoofers that misrepresented the actual bass output of a musical recording or a movie's LFE sequence. And its hard to believe at first. Out of all the people I've seen on here that wondered, "where's the bass"??? I don't recall a single one of them making a connection they had missed somewhere and then come back on here to say, "ok there it is, its breaking the window panes now"!!!

Instead its my opinion that those who stay with Axiom subs get used to the way real bass sounds and decide they like it. And those who aren't happy with it, trade in their Axioms for another brand. And I'm not implying that Axiom subs are weak by any means. My whole point is that entry level subs use entirely too much gain, but we get used to that level of performance and then go into our Axiom purchases expecting that much volume, plus refined clarity and accurate response. But that isn't what Axiom subs are.

It would be an interesting test if Axiom had a Denon receiver to play with. What I would suggest to them is to install into their showroom at the plant and calibrate it using a EP500 with the newly designed amplifier which has the gain set differetnly then the older amps to test if it needs a boost in the receiver settings for proper calibration. It seems people are having a harder time calibrating the 500's with the newer amps.

People are often hesitant when calibrating a sub to

A) increase the gain on the sub past half
B) increase the gain on the receiver

when "volume" is lacking

Steven - I agree that your initial thought are probably right. Sounds like your room is a huge volume to fill and if you are use to something that just moves lots of air w/o regard to detail then the EP500 might not feel right.

A couple other things you could try:

Place the sub right in front of your listening position aimed at you. Having it near field may increase the slam w/o the muddiness.

From you’re initial post I’m supposing a second sub is out of the question? Assuming so have you ever tried a Buttkicker or other tactile transducer. It wont quite slam your chest but it will rock your seating giving you very low bass w/o the high SPLs that make everything in the room shake. I used one in my apartment to make up for not being able to turn up my subwoofer (yet to finish my seating so I can set it up in my house but I will use it). It lets me keep the SPL from the sub down enough to keep the bass tight and punchy while still feeling the earthshaking rumble in my bones when appropriate.

Maybe there is a difference with the new subs versus the old subs then, because it seems a lot of the new owners (myself included) don't seem to feel that these subs get nearly as LOUD as some of our older, less expensive subs. Much, MUCH more defined, tight, accurate & responsive, but no where near as loud!!! If you with the older model Axiom subs don't feel this way, then perhaps there is a bigger problem then we know about.

I say problem because it would be hard for me to understand why an audio company would purposely lower the volume on their subwoofer line??? That would be like Ferrari upgrading the F40 with 250 LESS horsepower!!!

The combined volume of my listening area and adjacent kitchen is about 4000 cubic feet. My EP500 has no problem filling this area with way more bass than I need and I’ve yet to push it to see what it can really do here. However, I’m not sure we share the same idea of what is enough bass.

Actually, it would be like re-designing the gas pedal.

The question is whether or not the new sub still has the capability of outputting the same maximum level.

Equipment designers have been having a "loudness war" with the volume controls for years..designing the control to have full output with a quarter turn so that boombox seems really, really powerful. Imagine if someone designed a really nice receiver, but it took a full 360 degree turn of the volume knob to reach full output. At full output, it can put out as much as the competition. But people would consider it weak in that it wasn't "cranking" with only a third of a turn of the knob.

So, if you think of a volume control as simply a gain control, it would be best designed if it had to be turned up to maximum to reach full output with a weakish signal....and a little less than a full turn if it had a strong input signal. Then you would have the finest amount of control over that gain, all the way to "full output".

So, again, the question is not how much the volume control gets turned, but whether or not the new subs full output is equal to the old subs' full output.

I do have some updates but first..

Jollo

That is where my cable is placed for the sub. Honestly I don't think anything is wrong with the sub or my setup. There certainly a fair amount of output. More you can feel the pressure in you ears during movie scenes rather than the floor is shaking! I am very please with the sound I just would like a little more of it, and it is a huge space to fill.

So I guess kinda what I was after was after was a little more pressure and presence rather than rattle.

First update

After really pulling out all the stops and sucking up like you would not believe I got to move some furniture and place the sub in the corner with the 1\4 wall. After recalibrating late into last night I gained 3 db with this location compared to the back corner which was open to the rest of the room. The sub is still set at absolutely full volume and audessy wants to add 1.5 db to balance the system.

An even better update!!!!

Ohhhh I'm in deep now. Since she was P.O.'d with the sub anyway I told the wife of my initial problem with the sub. I mentioned that there were other subs but they were "bigger", or more or less taller..... Since I told here she can't put anything on top of the sub, OMG she wanted to hide it by putting plants on top, she said taller makes no difference now!!!!


Maybe an 800 is in the cards.......


I will keep listening for the next week or so and see what my ears tell me to do.

That's true, Mark. I had the gain at half when I first set up my Paradigm sub and it was far too much, I'm at approx 1/3 and I believe I could lower it some more in fact. Made me wonder who would have it near or at full gain?

Exactly! If you are having problems, it is well worth the cost of an inexpensive spl meter to know in a quantifiable way what your sub output is, both compared to others and to the rest of your system.

I think sub design concern is a red herring.

Edit:

well, that makes sense. You sound like the guys on the DIY forums that keep adding more subs for more presence. It is quite amazing how much woofage some people end up with and it does seem to make a difference to have more subs to produce similar output.

Thank you for that articulate post Mark. I enjoyed reading that.

Hey Osborne:

It was just a thought, I've seen people hook them up to the wrong outputs. I hope you get it worked out. Maybe a bigger sub is in order.

Good luck.

I have my EP800 set to full volume & the Denon is at +6 (can go to +12). It is loud, but as stated earlier, not nearly as loud as my old JBL was. Turning the Denon up any further results in those 'popping' sounds I described (the second new driver should be here any day) & still not as much volume as the cheaper sub.

Once the second driver is installed I'm not expecting any more popping noises, but I don't expect it to get any louder either. Keep in mind I'm very pleased with its performance. If I wasn't I certainly would have returned it for the $2300 dollar price tag it came with. Its just that I've heard much louder, & I am sure there are probably many people out there that would expect a sub costing better than two grand to put a $400 dollar sub to shame.

It does so with sound quality, but it would lose a sound pressure competition.

That still doesn't sound right to me.....

It doesn't sound right to me either. My SVS PC-Ultra is driving 7,000 cubic feet. I'm using 15Hz tuning and have applied the one level equalization to tame a nasty room hump centered around 65Hz. Both those produce limiting to the max output. I can't be sure but feel the sub is not being taxed that hard to provide all the bass I want. Maybe our SPL expectations are different. I'd love to hear a high end Axiom sub in the DFW area if anyone here would offer. Hint. Hint.
Bill

I dunno if the others will like it but I'll throw my two cents in.

First thing I'd do is update my denon AVR via the net. Logic there is some issues with LFE processing were documented in the firmware updates given out to shops a while back. I can't remember what model though. Second make sure you have it plugged into the back of the denon's line level out section in the RCA named SW.

Then I'd go into the Denon setup screens and make sure your x-overs are set right. Make sure it's set to LFE+Main for both surround and pure direct/stereo modes (pure direct has it's own descrete x-over settings remember and LFE+mains to 80Hz squazi highpass) and that the fronts and center are set to large. Set the rears to small. Set mains x-over to 60Hz, center and rears to 90Hz. You can try 40Hz for mains as well. Sucks Denon doesn't have high/low settings and the Hz steps between 40 and 80Hz are in 20Hz increments as I figure about 46 to 56 would be ideal. I'd love to set it to 53Hz... Set levels for each chan to something like this to start. Mains +2.5, Center +2, rears +1 with LFE at +5. Set the sub to 80% on the dial and set sub x-over to 100Hz or infinity (personally I think it sound better going through the x-over even if there is nothing there to cross. Set DSP to half and on the denon make sure roomEQ is turned off and tone defeat.

This should result in decent spl levels. One thing though, LFE coax can make a difference. Out of all frequencies one could send down consumer line level, LFE seems to be the most affected by a poor peace of coax. With the kinda money you spent on that sub I suggest you get an LFE cable from Bluejeanscable.com You might be shocked that it will allow your sub to play louder and fuller. Specially if you have a peace of shit coax segment like that crap Monster directional LFE cables with a broken ground.

If you really wanna go nuts and have a HTPC/notebook you can get yourself some kinda external USB soundcard with phantom power, a Galaxy SPL meter, some cables and download a copy of roomEQ or trueRTA. For about 200 or so bucks and some forum research over at hometheatershack.com you will be able to make that sub hum bigtime. It's a fantastic unit. Top notch. In fact the best product axioms has less the M22.

Really the easiest luddite method to figure location is to generate LFE tone and move around the room to where it's loudest then move the sub to that location. Do this over again a few times and you should get a general idea of best placement. If it's more boomy at that location try changing the phase switch. I dunno if it can really hurt the sub but personally before I change phase I turn the volume on the sub to zero flip switch and then turn it back up. I really hope this helps you out Osburne. The EP500 here has been able to move plates on the wall, make that oak floor move up and down maybe an inch in places and actually might be responsible for a crack in the drywall. When I was testing I had a pal place his had on those windows man and he was like WOW check out the flex. I walked over and felt it and almost freak out! I was yelling, "turn it down! turn it down! I thought the windows was going to break! Seriously no one word of a lie! It actually scared the heck outta me

Solid-State

PS hmm... due to RCA breakage replacement I might have different rev amp than original testing... It does seem not as loud perhaps. I wonder if Mika is onto something... I'll run those same tests again.

You're right, maybe our SPL expectations are different. But that's not what I'm talking about here. I'm talking about my EP800 not being able to play as loud as my JBL PB12 did. And my analogy stems from people who are used to high SPL subs buying an Axiom sub that can't match those SPL levels and feeling something must be lacking. Only I'm starting to get the impression the older Axiom subs can reach those insane SPL levels, which makes me wonder why my EP800, as well as a lot of other members on this board with newer Axiom subs, can't reach the same SPL levels as the older one's could?

Are there any graphs I wonder that show the max SPL of say an older version EP500 or EP600 compared to one of the EP500's or EP800's that have the new amp installed in it? That would be interesting to find out imo, if they are the same or not.

Axiom published this data! LOL the thing is INSANE DUDE! I seriously believe that it could possibly blow out a picture window! Do you guys have PCs you can use in the theater? Download some software man like roomEQ and run some test tones and sweeps. And if you have shit LFE coax... and pal by now you know I'm for real and not a smoothsaying slickster, get some LFE from bluejeans or buy a spool of 1694a and terminate it yourself but old shortwave radio buddy's "analog" LC-1 coax does do better than 1694a and is easier to work with.

Solid-State

Micah,

If your not happy I'd swap that EP800 for two EP500s this would have been the better choice from the get go as you must have a large space. Or you could place your EP800 on it's side so both subs are closer to the floor. Really though it sounds like your space would be best suited with two EP500s than that insane EP800.

Solid-State

I guess in order to be fair I might want to hold off on my 'final opinion' concerning the EP800's SPL limit until after I have installed the final replacement driver. Who knows, once all the 'popping' is gone and I can really crank this bad boy out I will come to a different conclusion than I have with an 'ill performing' piece of equipment.

It's just that it seems strange to me all the complaints lately when it comes to Axiom subs. Made me wonder if there was a bigger issue at hand. I will say that I noticed a vast improvement in all around performance once the 'really' bad driver was replaced. And while the second driver isn't nearly as flawed as the first was, perhaps whatever is wrong with it is holding back the 800 from achieving it's normal levels of performance.

All intents and purposes, with the bad driver, really you are running a passive rad and a single driver in an oversized housing. I'm sure when the other driver's in there it'll change everything.

Will it 'blow my windows out of their sills'???



LMAO, actually I can't play Madonna's 'Rain' much louder than -5 or so on the Denon. It actually does start to rattle the windows pretty violently at high volumes. But that's about the only song I've experienced that kind of bass with. That and movies of course.

I agree Micah, getting the replacement driver installed is the most important troubleshooting aspect at this point. All this other talk about switching out interconnects is nonsense. I love Blue Jeans cable products and pretty much use them exclusively (speaker wire, subwoofer cable, toslink, hdmi) but your problem does not stem from a faulty bbigwyrz subwoofer cable.

Micah,

If you have a budget to purchase something like that $2500 EP800 I would serious consider purchasing these items.

Galaxy CM-140 or if budget allows a PAA3 and a great mike.
Behringer DSP1124P
M-audio Fast-track pro 4x of budget allows a MOTU Ultralite MK3

Download roomEQ or buy a trueRTA license.

Prince range to get the gear is from $200-1000 bucks and you should be able to test and calibrate with the best of them. If your ear needs training buy this book. http://tinyurl.com/mvmd4n


Solid-State

Popping, replacement drivers? What are you guys talking about? Micah share experience and issues. Man I figure it must be pretty heard to kill that sub... but hey people pull off just about everything in this business. I hope the "popping" was not accompanied with blue smoke pal.

Solid-State

If the "popping" was accompanied by smoke than the amp would be toast and there would be no power to the sub. This obviously did not occur.

Ahhhhh! He escaped!!!

Not so far as my mail-order degree scientific brain could tell.

Hey Micah can't you take a joke? You deserved it with your notion on the inner workings of gravity LOL.

Ok here are some pictures of "Tower of Axiom®" v2. I have yet to glue the magnetic disks to the sides so it's not entire complete with "Nano Photon" and "Electro Gravitational Force" "enhancers". I did place EPDM rubber "Nano sandwitcing" for optimum "chocolatidity".















Solid-State

PS Preorders can be taken for the "Tower of Axiom" "High end" upgrade with "Nano Photon Gravitational Coupling Technology®".

Try the same humor on anyone else you know as well as you know us and report back.

Uhh... Try the same attitude on me you don't know well in person and you won't have to report back!

Holy Batman!



LOL

Come on guys! I'm holding an olive branch here. Your attitudes and behavior should be embarrassing! Seriously!!! You guys SEEM to suck! Totally... What a bunch of BABIES!!! WHAA!!!!

Solid-State

It might help if you weren't trying to beat us with the olive branch?

The branch is okay, but the little offshoots keep poking me in the eye!

COME ON! GET REAL!

Have you read how I've been treated?

It's friggin OUTRAGEOUS!

Solid-State

I just filled my diaper with a solid state.

Can't you?

Are you suggesting CV was joking? Hardly... it's another pathetic LAME ATTACK!

Right away I can tell your a great funny guy with one post... As for the others... One word!

UGG

Solid-State

I'm glad we're not getting to you, at least.

I tried to flush my solid state but pieces kept floating back up

LOL

Ok now you guys are gunna get me going on the poo poo humor!

LOL


I really like the seemingly changing of tone and more important HUMOR!

American humor is so direct and personal... English humor is usually directed at one's self not others! I'm Irish and English so...

LOL

Solid-State

Can you show us with a little "leading by example"?

WOW!

This new Phonic PAA6 sure look like an AMAZING little device!

Man I wish I had $1200 bucks to burn as I'd get me one of those!

http://www.phonic.com/en/testers/paa6.html

Solid-State

You might want some Haldol instead.

Is that for people with multiple personalities?

And I kind of felt bad last night for inadvertently whacking the bees nest. Tonight, not so much.

Hope you didn't lose any sleep, Joe.

Micah et al, back on the sub loudness topic, my own use of my EP500 is to have it calibrated in the way that I learned was intended, i.e., that you shouldn't be aware that the sub is even operating as a separate entity, but that the speakers seem to be putting out a lot more bass. Although I recall joking with Peter B. after we got our EP500s that setup was uneventful except for sweeping up the fallen plaster and broken glass, in fact if I wanted to I could play it at a level far above a normal balance. I'd briefly checked possible levels with bass test tones and measured as high as 116 dB with room gain.

It's unclear why some subs which are apparently less capable on an objective measured basis, give some an impression of greater "loudness". Boominess at certain frequencies? Higher distortion simulating loudness?

As to the setting on the sub control which varies loudness(as discussed before it doesn't vary the fixed amplifier gain, but simply allows more or less voltage from the source material through to be amplified), it apparently has been modified in more recent units so that a higher setting is needed to let more voltage through(this is a variable resistor). If in fact now a 50% or higher setting lets the same proportion of the incoming voltage through as did a setting around 25% on my EP500 and other older units, this doesn't affect maximum output in any way and certainly essentially all of the incoming voltage is let through at the maximum setting. There's no reason why the Axiom numbers for maximum anechoic and in-room levels would have been reduced.

Ditto. But guys I'm sorry, there is simply no reason the EP 800 should not bruise your kidney when playing, if that is what you like:


Now I still don't understand why they need an 800 watt amp, but if you can't feel 125db at the claimed 13hz, there are only two options: (1) you got some serious health problems, or (2) the sub is not outputting as advertised. Based on John's explanation of the gain issue, I would not worry about the clock setting, but you should be able to rattle your liver with this sub. I fully get your quality bass v. sheer spl analysis, but I think you should have both on tap with the EP 800 or 500.

The integration of the sub with the fronts has been no problem and it does sound eactly as you described, like there is no sub, just more bass from the mains.

As for output, as I have said there is alot of output but my system is telling me not quite enough to balance the system correctly. In fact while watching x-men 3 during the scene where the professor dies there was enough air movment from the sub to shake the leaves of a plant 2 to 3 inches away from the sub. While I don't mind one bit having the knob turned all the way up I would like more bass than what I am getting in my huge room.

So far after another day and 4 movies down my impressions of the system just keep getting better and better. Certain scenes in movies just blow me away, the powerful explosions yes but mostly the clarity and imaging of the speakers. There is a sceene in band of brothers Bastonge where the medic is lost, walking through the forest in complete slience. Then a twigg naps. You would swear someone broke a stick 10 feet in front of you!!!

And i think I might be calling Axiom about the 800 today.....

Yes I'm going to await my second replacement driver's arrival before I make any more comments about the 800's full output. I will just say that SO FAR it doesn't come close to the full output of my old sub, but that may very well change. If this isn't the case, then I guess there are just a lot of bugs to work out of these new amps, and that's why there have been so many complaints about them.

In a sealed sub you need EQ [dsp] to boost the bottom end to play flat. Boosting takes a lot of power.

Well maybe when you get your EP800 fixed you will get both accuracy and force. I get both with my SVS PC-Ultra
Bill

That is wisdom JohnK. I had a low end sub that used to rattle my fireplace screen in a former house. When I upgraded to a quality sub that stopped.

I can shake pictures on the wall now with my SVS PC-Ultra, but only at insane levels that I would never listen at.

Bill

As a reference, my living room is somewhat of an L shape. My living room space is 20X20X8. It opens to a 13x4x8 "hallway" that leads to the door and upstairs/downstairs.

In that room, the EP500 (and 3808) puts out *scary* amounts of bass/LFE.