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#277846 - 11/05/09 08:46 PM Question for Sat TV users
oldskoolboarder Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/25/03
Posts: 2181
Loc: Menlo Park, CA
I putting together AV wiring diagrams for my electrician to pull wires next week. I know what I need for an HD Tivo or similar box but I have no idea what's required for satellite anymore.

For you Dish/D* users:
1) How many coax runs should go to the AV rack? I see at least 2 for SAT and 1 for OTA. Is that still valid?
2) Do Sat boxes have HDMI audio or do I need to account for a digital audio run?

I normally use structured wire which has 2x RG6 and 2x CAT5. If I have 2 runs of structured and 2 extra runs of CAT5 I think I'm covered. That gives me extra CAT5 to use wired IR, network, or use baluns for other uses. I could use the 4th coax as a digital coax. Sound right?

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#277847 - 11/05/09 08:53 PM Re: Question for Sat TV users [Re: oldskoolboarder]
nickbuol Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/16/04
Posts: 4415
Loc: Marion, IA
I hate to say it, but it depends.

We have two newer Dish boxes that are both dual sat tuners, plus can do OTA if need be. They both have CAT5 (Ethernet) and HDMI on them. Of course, you can also use the ol' phone line if you don't use the CAT5 connected to the internet.

The boxes have 2 inputs via COAX for the Sat, one of them has 1 and the other has 2 inputs for OTA, and then there are all of the outputs to the TVs.

Local TV will be whatever you want to run to it, the secondary will most likely be a coax since the runs are longer.

You should be able to figure out which service's boxes you want to use and Google the model to get images of them to see the inputs/outputs on the back.
_________________________
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M60s, VP180, VP150, QS8s, SVS 20-39PCi, HTPC, JVC RS45, Onkyo TX-NR709, Shakers

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#277848 - 11/05/09 08:54 PM Re: Question for Sat TV users [Re: oldskoolboarder]
ClubNeon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/06/09
Posts: 3448
Loc: Western Maryland, USA
I can only answer 2, I helped a coworker hook his Dish Network HD receiver up to his new TV. It does indeed do audio over the HDMI.
_________________________
Pioneer VSX-1018AH-K, PDP-5020FD, DV-79AVi
Axiom M22s, VP150, QS8s
Sony PS3, surround backs
-Chris

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#277866 - 11/05/09 11:10 PM Re: Question for Sat TV users [Re: ClubNeon]
myrison Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/03/08
Posts: 1898
Loc: Austin, TX
Dish also supposedly has a single wire multi-switch that they employ in some installations that require only one coax run to each sat box... however, in my experience not everyone gets one of these, so it's pretty hard to predict before you schedule your install.

To be safe, your plan of having extra coax and CAT5 seems like the right call. On that topic though, don't you want to run CAT6 as opposed to CAT5? GigE ethernet can't hurt if you're ever going to be networking computers over this connection and CAT6 doesn't cost a lot more than 5.

Back to the sat box question, most new boxes now should all have HDMI, so I think you'd be fine with that assumption.

Jason
_________________________
Epic 80-800: HG Cherry | HT Pics

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#277901 - 11/06/09 09:57 AM Re: Question for Sat TV users [Re: myrison]
nickbuol Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/16/04
Posts: 4415
Loc: Marion, IA
Good point Jason. I actually got off my butt and looked, and I have both boxes set up with just a single coax coming from the dish itself, and then there is a diplexor or whatever on there to split it out to 2 signals to connect into both dish inputs on the back of each box.
_________________________
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M60s, VP180, VP150, QS8s, SVS 20-39PCi, HTPC, JVC RS45, Onkyo TX-NR709, Shakers

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#277902 - 11/06/09 10:03 AM Re: Question for Sat TV users [Re: oldskoolboarder]
PeterChenoweth Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 10/23/03
Posts: 1349
Loc: Jacksonville, IL
I have Dish Network and their top-of-the-line VIP 722 tri-tuner DVR. Two satellite tuners, one OTA HD tuner. It's an impressive piece of technology - it can record 3 HD streams at once while watching a recorded HD show on the main TV and a second recorded show on a second TV (SD) elsewhere in the house.

There is ONE RG6 that runs from the satellite dish on the roof to the back of the tuner for the satellite feed. That's for both sat tuners. There is a multiplexer/diplexer doodad right behind the DVR that splits the one incoming RG6 into two RG6's, each of which plugs into the back of the DVR. So there are two satellite inputs on the back of the box. But they are being 'driven' by one RG6 from the dish. I hope that makes sense.

For my OTA HD channels, I ran a second RG6 from my OTA antenna in the attic to the back of the 722. I have read that you can get a diplexer/multiplexer doohickey and combine both the satellite & OTA feeds into one RG6 cable. In my setup, it was a lot easier to just run the second RG6 than to mess with the satellite's RG6. Plus, I didn't want to mess with with the sat's RG6 anyway for fear of screwing something up. YMMV.

There is a THIRD RG6 cable coming *from* my VIP722 that goes to the RG6/cable distribution network in my home. The VIP722 (and a few other Dish receivers) provides an output signal that you can run to another TV for independent viewing (with UHF remote too).

So in my setup, it's two input RG6's and one output RG6. Setups can vary, however. I don't know about DirecTV, but in some parts of the country, Dish Network customers need two independent satellite dishes to get all of their programming. Many people around here have two dishes, but I have just the one that gets all three sats (110,119,129). With multiple dishes, I would not be surprised if you'd need two discrete RG6 runs. But I don't really know.

If you want to be sure, find out who your local Dish Network and DirectTV installers are. Give them a call and find out what sorts of cables & dishes are needed in your area. They'll know.

The Vip722 has an HDMI output that handles both video and audio. However, I use the optical for sound because my AVR lacks HDMI. I know, I need to upgrade. The audio works via HDMI because when the installer hooked up the 722, he just hooked up the HDMI to the TV and the TV had both sound & video.

And yes, you will want to have CAT6 run, not CAT5. CAT5 is only rated to transmit fast ethernet (100mb). You'll definitely want gigabit speed capability, so you want CAT6. CAT5 may work for gigabit over short distances, but CAT6 is a lot better. Especially when we're talking about home theater applications, where it's likely that sometime soon you'll be pumping HD video around your home network. There isn't much of a cost difference anymore either, so there's no reason NOT to go with CAT6.

Good luck!
_________________________
M80v2 | VP150v2 | QS8v2
SVS Pci+ 20-39
Emotiva UMC-1 & LPA-1
M22ti + T-Amp, in the Office

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#277909 - 11/06/09 11:37 AM Re: Question for Sat TV users [Re: PeterChenoweth]
nickbuol Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/16/04
Posts: 4415
Loc: Marion, IA
Good point on the CAT6. I was just looking at internet connectivity in which CAT5 is more than enough, but at some point there may be a need for gigabit connectivity to stream within your home. Who knows what the specs will be once those devices come mainstream, and the cost difference is negligible, so why not put it in...
_________________________
http://ht.buol.us
M60s, VP180, VP150, QS8s, SVS 20-39PCi, HTPC, JVC RS45, Onkyo TX-NR709, Shakers

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#277912 - 11/06/09 11:49 AM Re: Question for Sat TV users [Re: nickbuol]
oldskoolboarder Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/25/03
Posts: 2181
Loc: Menlo Park, CA
Thanks for the heads up guys. I think w/ 2 structured and a couple of Cat's I should be good.

Yeah, CAT6 is a good idea. In the interest of full disclosure, I work in the industry makes the PHY layer devices for ethernet. For most practical purposes, CAT5/5E is fine for gigabit ethernet (GBE). Most PHYs vendors (though I can't vouch for small, Taiwanese/Chinese vendors) have underspec'ed their devices to drive more than 100 mm cables. In some cases, I know about 250m using CAT5. Just something to consider. But yes, given the chance for the same/minimal cost, run CAT6.

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#277921 - 11/06/09 01:41 PM Re: Question for Sat TV users [Re: oldskoolboarder]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10398
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
You can run cat5e, it is good for 350mhz which is good enough for gigabit networking.
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Jason
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