Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Vertically Centered

No making fun of me, but last night I broke down and ordered an M22 to try out as my center. I blame the holiday pay I got for working Thanksgiving.

Would be great to hear your impressions when you get it set up!

you're excused!

We're not going to make fun of you for ordering an M22.

We're going to make fun of you for getting the custom finish in "Martina's' Legs".

Marina? Not that I'd mind if Marina became my McBride.

That sounds like a pretty good idea, CV! I use a single bookshelf speaker as my center channel and don't have any problems.

Let us know what you think of the M22.

Keep us posted

I mentioned this on another thread back awhile ago but after countless experimentation and four other center speakers wallowing in my basement, the best performance, to my ears anyway, has been a single M3 tilted slightly towards the listening area. Combined with my M60s it gives me better overall "naturally sounding" performance and dispersion in voices which, in turn, consigned another center channel to the basement, my VP 150! I was totally blown away by the result especially with how good the M3 has been in horizontal dispersion compared to the VP150.

The M22 vertically positioned(I tried one already) will sound fine with just slightly less bass response than the M3.

Martina, Marina, Regina.... When are you gonna develop a crush on someone with a normal name, like "Deb"?

What, Claire wasn't normal enough?

No - the vowel:consonant ratio is still too high.

Hey, I'm open to suggestions.

Nah, stick with your pattern.

Here is another cute, up and coming singer with an amazing voice, and a similar sounding name that starts with the letter "M". A bit more 'folky' than perhaps normal for you but I think the look and the voice will be a match for you.

Meaghan

Unfortunately, neither her Myspace photo or her audio samples do her justice. When heard live, her powerful voice matched with her pretty smile makes the even most hardened critics melt.

The next time you hear the word "chicken", you will stop what you're doing and start performing the Chicken Dance, encouraging those around you to join in.

Well, it looks like my M22 is shipping out tomorrow. I didn't think it would take so long to ship, since it's just a standard Boston Cherry. They must be behind due to the impending holiday. Estimated delivery date is the 17th. Waiting... waiting....

Their coming ground right? Cause you probably don’t want me to describe what I see happening over next to us on the FedX and UPS ramps this time of year. . . .

Ground, yes.

I get to see it and the resulting carnage daily

Ah! Now it's YOUR TURN! Ah!
Hope it gets there sooner!

Well, the original estimate was the 17th, then they changed it to the 16th, then it was back to the 17th. It didn't come today. The new estimate is tomorrow. It's in Portland now, so it should make it. It's always exciting getting a new speaker.

So that would be... Debina?

Just noticing a pattern.

You know you just jinxed yourself by saying that. Now a storm of the century is going to hit and it won’t be until Monday at the earliest.

Did you place a phone order or internet. I forget who answered when I called placing my second Axiom order for 2xM22, 2xQS8s and 1xM80 but she hesitated a little (like she didn’t want me to feel embarrassed) and said “you know people usually order two of those.”

Internet for me, and I paid with PayPal this time, which I hadn't done before.

Did you sleep well excited like that?

Apparently not. I woke up too early. I'm going back to bed now.

Is it there yet?
Is it there yet?
Is it there yet?
Is it there yet?

Charles?

It's here. I hooked it up. It works. I'll need time with it. I have it sitting on top of the TV, on an OmniMount center channel speaker shelf. I almost got rid of it at one point since I was using the VP150, which fits below my screen. I don't have it angled quite enough to point the tweeter directly at ear level, but it's not too far off. I'd be scared of angling it anymore without some better anchoring. What movies have people here used to test out their center speakers? Something with deeper male vocals, perhaps, to see how much difference there is between the VP150 and this? That makes me think Transformers.

I was trying out Transformers, and I have some work to do this weekend. In its current position, it definitely sounds like it's coming from above the screen, whereas when I had the VP150 below the screen, it seemed like it was coming from the screen. I don't have room below the screen because my amp and pre-amp are sitting on the floor in front of the TV stand, and with the spacers for ventilation, they're a little too tall to allow for the M22. So yeah, I have some playing to do.

Is it sitting upside down? If not turn it over so the tweeter is lower. Also I found that whether I used an M22, M80 or VP150 that raising my M80 mains a little to bring all the tweeter closer together (about 6” apart) evened things out.

Yeah, it's flipped over. I think it just may be too high for how close the screen is to the seating. I'll see about raising the M80s a little if I decide to keep the M22 on top of the TV, but right now I'm leaning toward finding a new way to situate the amp and preamp so I can have it below the TV. Thanks for your feedback, as always, Dean.

How close are you to your screen? And how big is your screen? I'm always so amazed that people here don't like having the speaker above the tv because they feel it destroys the sound field simply because I've never experienced this with my set-up.

However, I do not want to sound like I doubt those who've stated this, so I have therefore come to the conclusion that I must have somehow gotten the distances just right, by total accident. Not only is my VP150 above my screen, it's a foot and a half feet above my screen, anchored directly to the ceiling. But it is 15 feet from my ear, my screen is 65 inches diagonal, my M80's are 12 feet apart, and 15 feet from my ear. None of these measurements were carefully selected, I just set them up, did some moving around with the M80's, and settled on where there are based on the way they sounded. But for whatever reason, I've never been able to tell that the VP150 is where it is. I'm scared to move it below the screen test how it sounds down there because I'm afraid if I do hear a drastic difference then I'll never be able to live with it above the sceen again, and there really is no room for it below the sceen.

But then again I was also scared to try the 'phantom center' set-up for the same reasons. But once I did, I found that phantom center did not do it for me, so I was safe in that department anyhow. Don't want to push my luck too far though!

No way of a temp position below the TV, say on some stacked books or similar, just to see what it would sound like without going through the trouble of rearranging the amp etc.?

I went ahead and moved the A1400-8 down next to the Integra to try it out, and I'm already much more satisfied. I don't have anything behind the door on the right side of my TV stand at the moment (it's where I had my PS3, which I still haven't replaced with a Slim). I don't really want to buy a new TV stand that has enough space for decent ventilation because when I move it all to the basement, the gear is going to be up on a ledge behind where the screen will be. The TV will simply sit on a wall-mounted shelf until I get a front projector. Anyway, this setup will work for now. I think I'll find something to boost the M22 a couple more inches, since there's a little more room. Right now it's just sitting on some M80 rubber feet on top of the Integra, and it's just far enough forward for the disc tray of my OPPO to come out. Of course, now I have to hold my arm out to the left for the remote to work. You can tell I don't live with a woman, huh?

I did notice one advantage to using the VP150 over a vertical speaker is that whenever I sat very close the “smearing” (wall-of-sound effect) of the imaging the VP150 caused seemed to help obscure it’s position more.

If you’re keen on experimenting something I never tried was running an M22, VP150 over/under arrangement. Hint, hint.

Also Charles something I noticed when switching to a vertical center was that at first from any distance it called more attention to itself I think because of the improved clarity and imaging. I was use to the sound and dispersion pattern of the VP150 so the M22 somehow sounded wrong. It did sound odd at first but as I listened and compared things I realize the M22 had higher fidelity. I’d say I just wasn’t use to things sound more “correct.“ Over time I stopped noticing it.

Micah, my screen is a 60", and I sit about 9 feet away, I'm guessing. I don't know where my tape measure is at the moment. The tweeter of the M22 would have been around 5.5' high on top of the TV.

Interesting notes, Dean. I didn't give it much of a chance on top of the TV. The only way I noticed it calling attention to itself was that it was coming from so high, but maybe the sound itself was also pretty different. However, moving it down made everything sound a lot more unified, so I'm sticking with that for now.

I was actually going to ask if anyone was running both an M22 and VP150 together in that arrangement. I'm not sure when I'll be trying that out, as I'd want to get an XLR Y adapter first. My dad is wanting to try out my VP150. He otherwise has Polks, so it wouldn't be a seamless front soundstage, but we'll see what he thinks.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not implying on top is better. Worked for me because it put the tweeters as close together as I could manage while keeping all the tweeters near ear level. I imagine everyone’s setup will be unique.

Yes, and to me this is the sort of thing that makes life interesting. If everyone had a cookie-cutter HT system in their home, with all the same dimensions, distances, room treatments and all the rest of it, what kind of fun would that be?

It would be totally pointless to invite all your friends over to watch a game or movie on your system, because there wouldn't be anything special about it.

Regarding the over vs under for center channel placement, it took me about three months to get used to the center over the TV. Now it seems that all the dialog is coming directly from the screen. I came from a Yamaha soundbar setup, and an old Panny HTIB with the speakers all below the screen.

What REALLY helped out my situation was moving the mains up higher. Not only did the mains sound better (improved imaging and spaciousness) but they now blended with the center moree seamlessly.

I think it is more getting used to the new placement as well as the other factors.

I'd say you're right.

I can definately imagine someone on this board who runs their center channel under their screen coming over to sample my set-up and exclaiming, "wow that sounds way off", and vice versa even though everything sounds to me as if its coming straight out of the screen. I had my center channel anchored to the ceiling in my last HT which I had for about 5 years. So I was perfectly used to that set-up when I put my current one together 7 months ago.

It might take me time to get used to hearing a center channel that's placed below the screen. As trained as my ears are to hearing a speaker that's bolted to the ceiling seem like its coming straight out of the screen, the other way might sound as if the sounds were coming out of the floor boards!

I used to have my center above the screen back when I was using Polks, which is why I had the OmniMount shelf in the first place. I'm pretty sure it sounded like it was coming from above the screen then, too, but I've always sat a bit close to the screen considering the height. My 60" stands pretty tall. My 32" was lower, but I sat much closer, and the seating was lower, too. I think it was just too extreme of an angle.

Randy would say your right.

His right what?

@Peter, O NO YOU DI'INT!!!!

I'm all right.

Like Buster from Arrested Development?

Right.

Some of you is left, though. Even if you were somehow still alive after having your left side surgically removed. The side that was your middle would now be your left.

Not if his middle fell down in the forest.

But what if no one heard it?

As long as no one smelled it, I think we're good.

He who smelt it dealt it.

Who dealt this mess? Redeal!

New Deal? Square Deal?

I find it's important to have 3 squares a day.

I suppose that would keep you in some sort of shape.

Ok what if aliens took twin brothers, split them in half & then sewed the two right halves together & the two left halves together so that half of you were facing forward and the other half facing backward. That guy would be 'all right' eh? Because even backwards your right hand is stil you right hand, it doesn't become your left hand once you turn around.

The sad part is, they would both be doomed to walking in circles for the rest of their lives.

Sadly, it's all relative, so you'd still have a right and a left. The only way to do away with having two sides (and a front and back) would be to make a möbius person.

That reminds me, yoga class at 4:30 this Wednesday.

Yoga doesn't make sense. You get all twisted to unwind.....

I did some playing around with using both the M22 and VP150 in tandem. Not a ton, but just enough to say I did it. I couldn't get them to integrate very well. There wasn't a ton I could do with the angling of the center channel shelf. Music with strong vocals and light instrumentation sounded good, but still not too natural. It still felt like the vocals were mainly coming from above the screen. With music with a lot more going on, the sound was a bit muddied. Switching back to just the single M22 cleared it up a lot, and the vocals sound more centered and natural. Maybe part of the problem is that the center channel shelf makes the drivers even with the TV screen. I'm sure more could be done to make the M22 and VP150 work together, but I don't feel like being too extreme about it when I'm happy with the M22's performance and my dad wants the VP150.

I am going to try running a single M22 as a center in the new house and then add the VP100 or 150 above the screen. I am also wanting to try the VP150 below the screen and the VP100 above just to refresh my memory on how it sounds. Only 26 more days till I take posession of the new house

I’ve been toying with the idea of trying out my VP150 above my screen partly for kicks and also to see what effect that has on the overall soundstage considering how high my screen goes.

I’ve been looking for an excuse to order some more speakers and wanted to get the count to 5 for the extra discount and if a speaker above the screen sounds good I was considering getting an M2 to use up there.

P. S. Moving sucks.
P.P.S. New houses are cool.

Moving does suck especially when there is a 6 month lay over before the new one is done

Moving is hell. The only shining moment is when you find something that has been lost for 5 years that drove you crazy when it disappeared. You walk over, pick it up and say, "ah, that's where you ran off to".

Gas - $100 dollars
Moving van - $800 dollars
New house - $200,000 dollars
Satisfaction of finding lost nudie picture of exgirlfriend long thought to be gone forever.... priceless!

Wife finding lost nudie picture of ex girlfriend long thought to be gone forever....

Ummmm.....
House? $200,000
Child Support? $100,000
Divorce Attorneys? $20,000

House? $200K? I hates you. All I could get for 200K here would be a shot up one bedroom condo in a terrible neighborhood with a $300/month HOA.

I don't understand how people can live where real estate is so expensive.

Neither do I. But this is where I am, and for several good reasons.

Yeah I've always wondered the same thing. Real estate is very cheap around here. The house I just moved out of was a 1000 sq ft house on a half acre that had a full basement (bringing the grand total to 2000 sq ft) and an attatched garage... I bought it for $50,000 dollars in 1997. With the plunge in market prices it only appraised at $70,000 last spring when I had it on the market. So I decided to rent it out for $650 a month instead.

So I've always wondered how people live in places like Hawaii or California where a house like that would proly cost $300,000 - $400,000 thousand dollars? Because while it was nice and comfy living in it as a single man, when my ex-wife and kids were living there with me it got a bit cramped & we were in the process of looking for a bigger home before we got divorced (found the ex-girlfriend nudie pic before we even started moving). So where do all the non-lawyers, doctors and movie stars shack up anyway, tee-pee's? I know they have McDonalds & Wendy's there, which means there are people living in Hawaii that only make minimum wage, where do people like that live? It seems like it would be impossible to live in an area like that without earning half a million bucks a year, but not everyone can be an attorney, so how on earth do the middle class live comfortably in places like that?











... just kidding about the nudie pic btw

Try 500-600 for a house like that, depending on the area. I don't know where the people making minimum wage live--probably around areas like I live now, paying rent, trying to hold onto rent controlled housing. Or out in the boonies, where it's a bit cheaper. If you don't mind a 1-2 hour commute.

Photographers are never kidding about nude photos of old girlfriends!

No, but a good photographer also never leaves his prize possessions laying around for the wife to find either.

House $85,000 - $8,000 (tax rebate) = $77,000 = $565/month =



They move to Arizona.

Hawaii and California real estate prices? Obviously, considering the US economy, no doubt, a considerable number of offshore buyers. I recently saw a documentary about rich Chinese coming over to the US and in places you are talking about snapping up these houses.

Where I live, the house prices never really went down. Average home in and around the Toronto area still approaching $400,000 and up and that is WITHOUT the ability to claim mortgage interest on your income tax filing! There are people around the world with money just not as many in the US anymore.

Prices around here are crazy. 6000 sq.ft lot with a 30 year old 1800 sq.ft house will run you $600,000 and up.

That sounds pretty reasonable to me as that is about what things cost around here, well the house is a little bigger or smaller depending on where in the city you are looking.