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#290820 - 02/05/10 11:46 PM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: photonblur]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13333
Loc: Iowa
Peace buddy, I can't comment on Tube amps...

also consider Odyssey Audio. Klaus makes kick ass stuff based on German Symphonic Line (very expensive) products...the kismet and candela lines are tube based...

http://odysseyaudio.com/index.html
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
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#290821 - 02/05/10 11:48 PM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: photonblur]
photonblur Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 10/27/06
Posts: 23
Sir Quack,

Sorry I got defensive. I appreciate your knowledge. Now
I really have to go watch Fringe or risk a property settlement,
in which case my wife might get the M80s and whatever amp
I end up with.

Peace,

PB

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#290823 - 02/05/10 11:57 PM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: photonblur]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13333
Loc: Iowa
no defensiveness taken, I have no knowledge, \:\) Just hang on forums to much, lol. You should get a Tivo. See ya
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#290904 - 02/06/10 11:40 AM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: photonblur]
alan Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/29/02
Posts: 3187
Loc: Toronto/New York/Dwight
Hi PB,

Think I tried Fringe, but didn't stick with it. I quite like White Collar, however.

I understand the urge to experiment with tube amplifiers. I grew up building tube amps in my teens for my audiophile father, which is when I caught the hi-fi bug. ONe of the problems with many tube amplifiers is that they do not have 0 output impedance. All solid-state amps have essentially 0 ohms output impedance. With tube amplifiers, the output impedance of the tube amplifier may interact with a speaker's impedance curve, significantly changing the frequency response of the system. Tube amplifiers with output transformers have impedance taps--for 8 ohms, 4 ohms, etc.

In other words, tube amplifiers may not be "linear" with a smooth frequency response across the audible spectrum. That, combined with possible impedance interactions, may introduce audible colorations which you may or may not care for.

At Axiom, we always seek neutral, transparent frequency response from our speakers and the amplifiers, which is why we don't use tube gear. One of our former chief engineers designed tube gear for MacIntosh, as well as solid-state amps for Luxman, H/K and others.

Be careful if you try any single-ended tube amps, which typically are very low-powered--about 6 watts per channel. I just emailed an Axiom customer who was using one to power M22s in a huge room and he drove the little tube amp into distortion, destroying his tweeters and a couple of the midrange/woofers.

In one fascinating A/B comparison that I participate in, of tube vs. solid-state amps of about the same power output--35 watts per channel--the sound quality was essentially identical until they approached their output limits. The soundstage of the tube amp collapsed into almost mono and became distorted. The transistor amp remained excellent until it clipped, and sounded distorted and nasty. When not driven to their limits, the two were essentially indistinguishable. None of us in the room could reliably say which amp we were listening to until they were run past their output limits.

Regards,
Alan
_________________________
Alan Lofft,
Axiom Resident Expert

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#290987 - 02/06/10 10:34 PM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: alan]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10388
Does "former" indicate that Tom Cumberland is no longer with Axiom?
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Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#290988 - 02/06/10 10:37 PM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: JohnK]
BlueJays1 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 4078
Loc: Porch,enjoying Bombay Sapphire
Nice catch JohnK.
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I’m armed and I’m drinking. You don’t want to listen to advice from me, amigo.

-Max Payne

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#290989 - 02/06/10 10:40 PM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: BlueJays1]
Wid Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/22/03
Posts: 6720
Loc: The Peoples Republic of Il.

I caught that too.
_________________________
Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud


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#291041 - 02/07/10 09:09 AM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: Wid]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13333
Loc: Iowa
I also caught that, but in a recent coversation with another Axiom employee, Tom's name was recently mentioned...did the new guy Andrew replace Tom, I hope not, nothing against Andrew..
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#291094 - 02/07/10 12:37 PM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: SirQuack]
alan Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/29/02
Posts: 3187
Loc: Toronto/New York/Dwight
Hi all,

Tom Cumberland will continue to design electronics for Axiom but on a consulting basis.

Regards,
Alan
_________________________
Alan Lofft,
Axiom Resident Expert

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#291111 - 02/07/10 01:39 PM Re: M80V2 and Tube Amps......... [Re: alan]
Adrian Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/27/08
Posts: 6609
Loc: It's all about the location.
That's good to hear, Alan. I met Tom, nice man.
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Half of communication is listening. You can't listen with your mouth.

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