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#291869 - 02/11/10 11:20 PM 5 M22's or 3 M22's and 2 QS8's. 95% HT/Video Game
serpentara Offline
regular

Registered: 02/11/10
Posts: 9
Just for fun, another one of those "What speaker should I get threads?"

My goal is to have a uniform sound field. I don't want to have a different timber/sound when the effects pan. My use is overwhelmingly for home theater and video games (mostly first person shooters and action games). I listen to maybe 5% music. I figure with my high consumption of action media, localization would be a good thing?

I am hoping to wall mounting my plasma with enough space underneath that I can place a M22 all but flush with the bottom of the TV set while ensuring that the tweeter is about ear level. If this cannot be accomplished, I will probably go for a VP100. I have an adequate sub that takes care of all of my LFE needs.

My question is about rears. My couch is about 10" from the back wall and maybe 2.5' from each of the side walls. To the direct sides of the couch (90 degrees) are windows/sliding glass doors. I have a strip of about 8" between the edge of the window and the back wall.

My original thought was to use the full metal bracket and put an M22 on each side of the couch in that narrow strip, as close to the window as possible. This would put the speakers at ~95-100 degrees to the sides of the listening position.

Because the strip is so narrow, It would be impossible for me to mount a QS8 on the side wall. My only choice would be to place them on the rear wall which is 10" from the couch. From all I read you should place QS8's on the side for 5.1 configuration. Mounting them on the back wall would effectively put the downward firing woofer directly over the arms over the couch assuming I keep the QS8's a bit away from the side walls.

With my preference for action movies, tv shows, and video games, would I be better served by a QS8 or an M22? What about when my mounting limitations are factored in? Is there any tone difference between the M22 and QS8?

Thanks guys!

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#291886 - 02/11/10 11:48 PM Re: 5 M22's or 3 M22's and 2 QS8's. 95% HT/Video Game [Re: serpentara]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10395
Serp, welcome. Apparently you haven't read the right stuff. In a 5.1 setup the side(not rear)surrounds are best placed a little farther back than directly to the side, to lend a little "phantom" back effect, in the absence of actual rear surrounds.

In your situation the QS8s should be mounted on the back wall about 6' up facing forward and separated as widely as possible, maybe just a few inches from the side walls.
_________________________
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Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#291888 - 02/11/10 11:53 PM Re: 5 M22's or 3 M22's and 2 QS8's. 95% HT/Video Game [Re: JohnK]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13336
Loc: Iowa
Qs8's for "side" surrounds, especially for HT, you will be blown away.
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#291889 - 02/11/10 11:54 PM Re: 5 M22's or 3 M22's and 2 QS8's. 95% HT/Video Game [Re: JohnK]
htnut
Unregistered


The QS8's can still work well just a few inches from a side wall?? Geez, I've been killing myself trying to find a decent place for them...

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#291892 - 02/12/10 12:00 AM Re: 5 M22's or 3 M22's and 2 QS8's. 95% HT/Video Game [Re: ]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10395
Nut, when mounted on the back wall, all that's necessary for QS side surrounds is at least a few inches of room for the outside tweeters to bounce off the side walls.
_________________________
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Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#291893 - 02/12/10 12:06 AM Re: 5 M22's or 3 M22's and 2 QS8's. 95% HT/Video Game [Re: JohnK]
htnut
Unregistered


Thanks JohnK, you're right. My issue is actually trying to use them for SR and SL speakers. I'm getting pretty frustrated, may have to make a new thread with a diagram and ask for help...

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#291894 - 02/12/10 12:16 AM Re: 5 M22's or 3 M22's and 2 QS8's. 95% HT/Video Game [Re: JohnK]
grunt Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 3569
Loc: Nirvana
One question, how far is your seating going to be from your mains? As long as it’s not to far the I would use QS8s placed on the back wall as John suggested. Early Dolby placement diagrams and even my Denon 2807 suggest placing the surrounds as far back as 135 degrees to help create the “phantom” back effect John mentioned. I did this in my apartment and got the best most seamless surround field of any room I’ve been in.

OTOH if this will put a long distance between your mains and your surrounds the front to back panning might not work well. Really the best way to get your speakers set right is to experiment. Set them approximately where you want them and then play a 5 channel sweep with a demo disk or most computers with 5.1 also have the capability. Then move them around until you get the most seamless panning you can. If you can get a test tone to pan pretty well (doesn’t need to sound seamless test tones never will) then any program material will sound great. The most important thing I’ve found to creating a seamless 360 degree sound field is symmetry. The more symmetrical you can get things both in relation to your seating and to walls the better it gets.

With your seating so close to the back wall you might try something that worked well for me in a small room. I put furniture sliders under my futon so when I wasn’t watching or playing anything it was up against the back wall but I could easily slide it out to get about 3’ behind my seat to give more room for the back sound field to develop. It worked great.

As for timber in the panning I am very sensitive to it and have never noticed a problem with the QS8s matching my M22s or my M80s. The farther apart two speakers are the less noticeable timber differences become which is one reason many people are happy to use QS8s with other speaker brands.

Also, I’ve tired both QS8s and M22s as surrounds and the QS8s win, no contest.

Cheers,
Dean
_________________________
3M80 2M22 6QS8 2M2 1EP500 Sony BDP-S590 Panny-7000 Onkyo-3007 Carada-134 Xbox Buttkicker AS-EQ1

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#291895 - 02/12/10 12:21 AM Re: 5 M22's or 3 M22's and 2 QS8's. 95% HT/Video Game [Re: ]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10395
Nut, I was talking about using them for SL and SR(in a 5.1 setup), but mounted on the back wall.
_________________________
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Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#291897 - 02/12/10 12:23 AM Re: 5 M22's or 3 M22's and 2 QS8's. 95% HT/Video Game [Re: ]
grunt Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 3569
Loc: Nirvana
 Originally Posted By: htnut
The QS8's can still work well just a few inches from a side wall?? Geez, I've been killing myself trying to find a decent place for them...


The best rear surround field I’ve ever had was with my QS8s in the back corners with the tweeters pointing parallel to the side and back walls. This placed them exactly 135 degrees back. I know it violates the “don’t corner load speakers” rule but I worked. In test tones it did cause a slight upper bass hump but it was inaudible with program material. When I played “Elder Scrolls Oblivion” I would test it buy standing near NPCs talking and spin around in a circle and hear their voices pan seamlessly around me w/o any timber or volume changes. Also, this actually worked better than when I “upgraded” to 7.1 which caused the sound field to drop out as it panned across the rear. So I switched back to 5.1 and my 2 extra QS8s sat idle until I moved.
_________________________
3M80 2M22 6QS8 2M2 1EP500 Sony BDP-S590 Panny-7000 Onkyo-3007 Carada-134 Xbox Buttkicker AS-EQ1

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#291902 - 02/12/10 02:42 AM Re: 5 M22's or 3 M22's and 2 QS8's. 95% HT/Video Game [Re: grunt]
Micah Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 11/16/08
Posts: 1789
Loc: Indiana you hoser!!!!
I put my QS8's on my back wall in the position a normal sbl & sbr would sit because I had intentions of moving to 7.1 fairly soon, & I didn't want to have to move the side surrounds (in 5.1 they are better off behind the seating area, while in 7.1 they recommend them to be directly on either side) once I bought the other two QS8's. But it has sounded so incredible I've yet to even upgrade to 7.1, so don't worry about putting them on the rear wall. Even though that might not be their ideal position, they still sound remarkable back there!
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My Stuff :

M80's
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VP150
EP800
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