Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners Sub Upgrade

I'm getting ready to replace my BIC V1220. It's been a good performer over the past 2.5 years with periods of LFE bliss along with some mediocrity at times. I know there's better. I'm looking at a budget of approx $500.00 and have the following vendor/models in consideration: HSU VTF-1, SVS PB10-NSD, Aperion Bravus 8D & Axiom's own EP175. I want Axiom but I just don't see the "heft" in the EP175. The other contendors come in a little stronger in the spec area with real-wood veeners. Aesthetics is not my top parameter but it helps. I'm hoping the experience on this forum can provide some good direction.

Hello DC,

I have a SVS-PC12-NSD on order, due to be delivered this Tues.
Cost $599+shipping, 45 day trial, no shipping refund. I was
going to order the PC12-Plus,500 watts, but was talked out of
it by SVS. The PC12-NSD is 350 watts. Sub is just for music.
Per SVS the additional benefit of more power would only
come into play for very deep bass at very loud volumes. Since
I don't intend to blast pipe organ tunes I am trying the smaller
unit. This was a tough enough sell to the wife without the
additional 5 inches of height for the plus model. I have the
M80v2s and have been advised to plug the ports for better
sub integration. Anyone else doing this?

PB

You might also want to check out some of the offerings from ED subs, Outlaw, Epik and Paradigm DSP3200 which are in that price range as well.

Agreed with Adrian - I fully second the DSP subs from Paradigm. They sound quite good and are a very good value. I almost bought one but then ended up going all Axiom at the eleventh hour.

Those are good recommendations so far. If you are handy and inclined to build your own, you could consider a [url=http://www.creativesound.ca/details.php?model=QUARTET10 Subwoofer Kit]Kit like this[/url] from Creative sounds, or even their sdx15 paired with a decent amp. There are plenty of good designs out there for DIY.

Sadly, I don't think the EP175 would satisfy you. The EP350 is a solid performer though.

Both the Outlaw LFM-1 Plus and the Paradigm DSP3200 have been added to the list. I think of these two the better choice (at least on paper) is the Outlaw, and it's below my budget number. I'm not a big fan of working with dealers anymore (thanks Axiom & Aperion)) so there's that nagging "mark up" with Paradigm I need to deal with. Down to three...at least as of this moring: Outlaw LFM-1, HSU VFT-1 and Aperion Bravus 8D. Can I get some love for the Outlaw anyone?

http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/lfm1plus.html

I would also give good consideration to ED (Elemental Designs) that Adrian mentioned. They are based right here in the heartland of Iowa, and get rave reviews rom the sub guru's on most forums. I have not yet toured the plant, but I know you get the best bang for the buck, kinda like Axiom.

Out of the three listed I would pick the Outlaw. I had the Hsu VTF-2MK1, it's pretty close the the VTF-1, and I have the Hsu STF-3. The Outlaw is a real close match to the STF-3.

The STF-3 is a much more powerful sub so I suspect the Hsu wouldn't match the Outlaw.

If you don't mind me barging in, I wonder if you wouldn't recommend the EP175 just in this case, or wouldn't recommend it, period? I've been the satisfied owner of two M22's for a couple of years and now I'm thinking of moving into a 5.1 all-Axiom system with the EP175 as a sub.

I'm not looking to dance around with the coffee table, so to speak, but I want a sub that will complement the M22's on the lower end. We don't have a huge living room (11,5 by 18 feet) and music is much more important to me than movies. What do you guys think? Will the EP175 work for me? Should I look into other options?

Wow Rick, as a new ED owner I would think they would be on your top list, did it not work out?

There are many good subs in the $500-750 price range Jasper, if you want to stick with Axiom, you'd find most guys recommending the EP350 over the 175 for it's greater impact and range. If you go through the factory outlet you can bring the cost down 10% btw. Many of us here, do in fact, use non Axiom subs as there are a lot of good, competitively priced subs out there.

If your really mainly focusing on music though(outside of very low fq church organ type), the EP175 may be fine, but I've never heard one so maybe someone who has can provide some details on it.

Also, welcome!!

I think the EP175 would be fine for music (unless you are really into pipe organ music), but it just doesn't reach down low enough or with any authority for movies. I Auditioned the ep175, 350 and 400 at Axiom in their 20 x 12 x 8' room and the ep175 just didn't have any rumble. The EP350 did a very good job on both music and movies.

I suspect that the EP350 would be enough sub for the vast majority of people out there. I get down to ~21Hz in my room and that is good enough to really add to the movie experience.

Its integration with my mains for music is flawless. Though I have not had a chance to listen to subs like the SVS PB10, my understanding is that they are a good budget sub for movies, but give less than ideal performance for music. It all depends what you want.

I would have Randy but it was not on his list.

I would very much prefer an Axiom product but, sadly, I do agree the EP175 won't have enough punch for my room size, 24' X 13' X 8'. I just got off the phone with my brother (whom I turned into an Axiomite btw) and we agreed it's between two. The Outlaw LFM-1 and the ED A2-300. I'm leaning toward the Outlaw.

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0505/outlawaudiolfm1.htm

I like to think outside the box.

The LFM-1 is no longer available but Outlaw has a real nice price on the LFM-1 Plus.

The eD A2-300 is on a pretty serious back order right now. For that reason alone I wouldn't recommend it.

Yes, you are correct it's the LFM-1 Plus. I just placed the order, thanks to all and your recommendations/input. Now where is that FedEx guy? Price is exactly where I wanted to be with free shipping. Always ask for free shipping. FYI - I did call our local Paradigm dealer and he wants $800 for the DSP3200...there's that pesky dealer mark up again. Excellent reviews on the Outlaw so I'm hoping for good LFE for years to come. Got the WAF approval this moring, only took me 5 hours to place the order.

$800 for the DSP3200? Ouch!! I paid $700 CD for the DSP3400 and was quoted around $550 for the 3200 last year. Anyway, congrats on the Outlaw, looks like a good sub for the $$.

He wanted $1000 for DSP3400... ouch is right. $467 for the Outlaw delivered.

Dang!! just a couple of weeks ago, I saw a clearance on 3400's online in the US for $550 but I think someone bought up all their stock because all the Paradigm equip't went all at once, and there was a lot of it(liquidation) including their Signature and Studio line.

I'd be interested in how the Aperion subwoofer compares with the SVS PB10 from a performance standpoint. The fit and finish on the Aperion subs are quite nice and they have some neat features like the use of a remote control.

I waiting impatiently for the I believed rumored (or what I think I've read) of an Axiom Sub remote, with of course the hex/ir codes already on the harmony site

Really? It would be neat. The last thing I read about the remote is that they thought about it but it wasn't cost effective enough and if incorporated would have to raise the MSRP considerably.

I'm new and just read somewhere on here that the usb port on the ep500 could be used for a maybe upcoming remote. So don't go by me!

Forget MSRP, make it an option, or just a remote receiver, would think most of us have programmable remotes.

You are informed as much as I am. Thats the same info I read. I forgot about the USB port.

Hmmm. I like to think about the box.

I like to play with the box.

People like to box my ears. Hey, maybe boxed ears would make Mark's square room sound better.

Thanks for the welcome and the advice. Since rumble is not a priority (in fact, our downstair neighbours might be happier without it), I might still go for the EP175 if it performs well with my M22s for music. I was delighted to come across Axiom in 2004, I was living in the US back then, and have been very happy with my M22s, so I'm inclined to stay with Axiom.

But I'll also consider the EP350 and see what other subs are available here in the Netherlands -- or what other companies I trust to send their product here. Thanks again, guys.

The only advantage of living in a poured concrete construction apartment is that I do not need to worry much about the neighbours.

I'm sure the ep175 will be and excellent performer for music.

I started to pass by this thread without opening.....then I thought that the post count was high enough that surely someone must have sent it spiraling off track by now....Doesn't Canada have some holiday about boxes??

I think it's appropriate to give an update on the choice of sub since I had started this thread. The new Outlaw LFM-1 Plus is in-house and "subbing". The Outlaw along with Axiom (EP 175), SVS & HSU were all out on the table, surprisingly it only took me about a half a day to place the order. That same day I sold my BIC to a friend at the firehouse...the entire process seemed way too easy. I really wanted the EP175 but it was just a tad undersized and their next model up surpassed my budget. So far I'm rather impressed with the LFM-1 Plus' fit/finish and overall design. It has a 12" a down-firing driver with two ports. One port came plugged which allows the unit to go down to 18 Hz; unplugged - 25 Hz. It's smooth, robust and well built. That extra power is making a huge difference from what I used to own. I've also changed the Xover to 60 Hz and that has seemed to tame it somewhat at high (maybe insane) listening levels. This is my third on-line audio vendor (Axiom was the first and lead the way) and just can't imagine buying audio gear from a dealer and their mark ups. So...back to some Tarja and Nightwish (Wishmaster); icing on the cake.

Congrats on the sub. Outlaw is a good co. to deal with. I bought an ICBM from them years ago and the process went super smooth.