Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Need Advice Quick

Hi Guys,

I have an opportunity to pickup a Paradigm PS1000 sub used for $150. All I know is the specs of the sub. Anyone have experience? Is this a good price. I am hoping it'll do alright with my VP100 and M22's.

Buy now, ask questions later.

You guys are always such a bad influence.

We're "plants" for the Department of Economic Recovery.

Do it! Really. Go see what you get @ B & M's for that.

It is a good deal.

Sorry, I truely have no business telling you to buy it really, because I have never heard one in person. However, I must say that there are very few subwoofers out there that you can buy brand new for $150, and Paradigm is a very respected company. So I'd personally assume it's constructed fairly well. It retails for around $500 new, so if it's in good shape then I'd say it's a good enough deal to try out.

Alright, well I will see if it can get it then. Not just solely on what you guys said, but it's positive reinforcement.

I will post back with my impressions.

I guess the first question would be what is it to be replacing? But really a Paradigm sub for $150 and you are asking questions?

I would use it in another room, if I end up getting a better/bigger sub later on and with the 10" driver I bet this sub will be great with music.

It's replacing a terrible Kenwood 10" 50RMS sub. That "pops" all the time.

Dude.

I second that.

For a low budget of $150 or so the subwoofer offerings from parts-express should work well along with the used Paradigm model you are interested in. From the sounds of it your Kenwood sub is on life support with the "popping' and all. Its ready for the electronics bin.

http://www.parts-express.com/home.cfm

For $150, it's a bargain if it works. Even if you had to change out the amp OR the driver it'd probably still be an OK deal.

Thanks for that link. I haven't heard of that site before.

I have had the Kenwood sub for about 14 years. It's in pristine shape, just failed after a while. I did have two EP350's, which didn't work out so well.

Appreciate the response.

Thanks again everyone. I am meeting up tomorrow with the guy. I will update with how it panned out.

Great community as always!

Didn't work out so well as in they failed? Or not enough bass? Just wondering because its a toss up usually with people who order Axiom subs. Some are completely blown away, others wonder, "where's the bass"???

When I first got my EP800 I was in the later catagory. I thought for $2000 dollars this thing should blow the windows clean out of the sills! However what I didn't know was that I had it sitting in pretty much the worst possible spot I could have had it. Once I got the new amp installed and placed it directly behind my couch this bad boy blows my hair forward. Its a completely different beast in the right location.

But if you tried it out and weren't happy with it then I understand. They aren't for everyone. Have yoy ever considered eD or SVS? They pack a lot of punch for the coin.

That's interesting what you say about your EP800. At that price I would expect to be blown completely away as well, regardless of placement. Maybe that's an unrealistic impression. How far is your couch out from the wall now? Does the sub fire right into it?

Well I suppose you could say I wasn't impressed with the bass. Haha. Okay, let me explain. Axiom sent me out an EP350. Didn't work. Tried everything, only got a little rumble out of it. Talked with the techs, no resolution. They sent out another, same problem. Again, more screwing around. Eventually they figured out the problem was with a few select subs from the factory. This was over about two weeks, I had had enough at that point, and just sent it back.

I haven't heard SVS or eD subs, but when I do upgrade it'll be SVS. Too many good things about them to ignore. I already contacted them a while back, and they seem quite nice.

So I got the sub. Seems to be in decent shape. I guess there are about four different versions of this sub model. This one doesn't say, but it appears to be version 1 or 2. Definitely not 3 or newer.

Initial impressions are good. There is no port noise at all. The frequency extension isn't amazing, but better than what I have. I did the sub crawl, but I think I will have to again. It's getting good rumble, but it's lacking a bit of impact. I going to run both subs at the same time and see how that works.

That lack of impact/feel is from the small size of the driver, to get really good rumble/feel from a sub you need a larger driver, 12" minimum IMO.

My couch is about 4 feet out from the wall. The sub is almost against the wall, so you can walk betweent the sub and the couch. Let me just say that I've always heard a corner is the most efficient placement for a subwoofer, but I didn't have any corners available to place it, so behind the couch was the next best place.

And yes, now I have to turn it way down or all I hear is bass slamming into my back. Makes it nice when I do feel like watching a movie a little hot though. When I want the people down the street to wonder where the helicopter crashed!

That makes sense that the 12" would offer more. More air is being pushed around. Unfortunately my walls are pretty thin, and I am in a quiet neighborhood. I could already wake the neighbors.

I have one of the woofers right beside the couch. I am curious if the Paradigm would do better in that placement.

I find having the sub in the corner definitely offers bottom end, but certain frequencies are too accentuated.

That is boundary affect and moving the sub slightly out of the corner might help cut some of the boominess, even just re-orienting the sub in the corner, ie. flipping it 180 deg. or less, might help. I did this this with a sub, moved it 45 deg. and it made a noticeable improvement in SQ.

Well, looks like I have some tweaking to do. Thanks for the tip!

What's do you guys think about having your subs raised off the floor? With a stand or something...

I think it sounds like a fine experiment indeed. I don't know that I've ever seen anyone else post up results of doing so. Most hide their subs away as much as possible. But if you're wondering if raising it any would reduce the effects of frequency loading and/or standing waves, then I think an experiment is in order!

Fire away

I think raising it would do little to enhance the SQ but you never know what it might be interacting with in the room so you only have yourself to blame for that little bit of extra homework

I've had my EP500 about 3 weeks now. To be honest, It has seemed like a mistake. Either no LFE's and not much bass or LFE's but couldn't be in the room with the bass, way to much.

Many settings, AVR/Vol/Phase/Crossovers/etc.
Calibrating with SPL Meter/Audyssey
Many positions: 2 corners, behind the couch, a long wall, lots of orientations in each position..... NADA

Yesterday, I move it to an "End table" position against the wall, driver facing toward the front of the room and reset my crossovers higher.

Watched the first 2 LOTR BluRays... WOW ... amazing sound.

It's not perfect, but I'm almost there.... and no more regrets!

Just going to have to do a walk around the house on the outside while playing and see if my neighbors hate me yet.

Subs can be like real estate - Location, location, location

Jay's right. Typical.

I don't think there is anything inherently "better" about changing the sub's height in the room. It would allow you to do a sub walk instead of a sub crawl, though. All you're doing is changing the distances to the reflective surfaces in the room, which may or may not make a difference and is a matter of trial-and-error anyway.

Live and learn!

Next time, I'll live with the cable on the the floor for a while before I cut and fish the wall with each new location.....at least now I have pre-drilled options and outlets!

Ditto, only I cut a hole for the entire subwoofer... an EP800 at that! Don't think I'm not kicking myself over that one.

Tom, the one inherent factor that's affected by raising the height of the sub is the degree to which the floor/ceiling room mode is excited. Raising it to the midway point reaches the minimum for that height mode, just as the midpoint of the side wall is the minimum for the length mode and the midpoint of the front or back wall is the minimum for the width mode. Of course, raising a sub about 4' involves more work and possible aesthetic concern than the mid-wall placements do, and might not be justified by the mode benefit.

That was good for a chuckle. I've done my share of dumb things over the years.

We live, we learn, we cut holes in the wall the size of a truck bed, we cry...

Odd. The $90 per hr. electrician I sub out for my clients does the same thing. Only he's installing wall outlets and pot lights.
He lives, he earns, I cry.

You pay $90 dollars an hour to install wall outlets??? What is your name and address, I'm coming to work for you God damn it!

Pick me up on the way! I'm going too!

I use to do electrical work for my Dad in the 70's for $15/hr.

I suspect he is paying a subcontractor $90/hr, essentially another company to do the work. I would expect the electrician is making around 1/3 - 1/2 of that cost which is still a pretty good wage, unless of course the electrician IS the company, if I am wrong I need to change my trade.

My employer bills my IT work out at $96/hr. I only get a fraction of it.

Your company is a bargain. My old company billed my IT work at $125-190 base rate. Discounts down to $90-150.

Lots of interesting things being said here.

I spent the majority of last night fooling around with placements. I tried nearly eight or so. I get get a boom, but it's hard without being muddy. I got sick of moving it around and just gave up for now. I placed one in the right corner in the room, and the other sub in the left.

An interesting point though, I couldn't connect both subs via the subwoofer out on the receiver. I got a bad hum through both subs when connected with a "Y" connector. So I hooked one up via the high left channel. So it's curious to have the dedicated LFE, and have the second sub firing the strictly the left channel bass. Made for an interesting gaming experience.

So I don't know what to do about placement. Certainly nothing seemed obvious. My couch sits against the wall. That wall is just framed with drywall. The opposite side of the wall is the furnace room. I wonder what it would sound like if the sub was in the room behind the theater, directly behind the couch. Thoughts? I would just try it, but you know... hole in the wall.

It sounds like you've got a ground difference between the two subs (the Y splitter bit). Perhaps remove the ground screw from one of them?

Were you connecting both subs to the same outlet? That hum is a ground loop, and is being caused by some issue with your house's wiring. If both subs on are the same breaker you shouldn't get the hum though.

The subs were on different receptacles, but I didn't check to see if it was the same circuit.

I suppose the consensus would be to use the sub out on the receiver for both, rather than one using the high gain inputs?

re: my $90 electrician:
Guys, guys! You can't equate all markets. $90 is the middle rate around here, topping out @ about $125. He's the first totally honest one I found.

And no, I'm not a GC. He direct bills and it's all his. I'm a painter/cabinmaker/designer. I do all the surface work, trim and built-ins, or combo thereof. All in existing homes only. I had to have a rubber stamp made for the back of my card to tell decorators, GC's and architects to foff. Double-dippin', one-trick-pony scum, but I'm not bitter about that anymore. Really.

Yes. If you use the high level inputs, you're not getting the LFE channel.

Yeah, I know... guess I just had a solution and ran with it. Maybe I will try removing one of the ground screws. Incidentally, neither sub has a ground on the power cord. Seems strange to me.

Dave, as for putting the sub in a different room, I haven't tried this is a while, but a long, long time ago in my old house I did put one of my subs in the storage area behind where my TV was... it was SOOOOOO FREAKING LOUD back there I couldn't take it. It was literally shaking things off of the walls, and drowning out all the other speakers. But all I got was the really low stuff, I didn't get those slamming midbass notes from behind the wall.

I then pulled it out of there and placed it behind the couch, and that's where it stayed. I suppose I should have thought about that before I cut that hole in my wall (actually I didn't cut a hole im my wall, I made the wall with the hole built into it. But I guess there isn't a whole lot of difference now is there), because behind the couch is where my new subwoofer found itself as well.

Hey Micah,
I must have missed it - what sub did you end up with?

I went full circle actually. I'm rocking out to the brand new EP800 with the new amp installed, only it's behind my couch now instead of beneath my TV, where I originally built a location for it before it even shipped from the factory. Basically, I made my mind up that I was either going to buy an EP600 or EP800 (same dimensions), so I built my HT closet with a space in the bottom of it for the gigantic subwoofer to sit. It looked great, but the location basically strangled it to death.

Now it's out in the open where it can kick ass and take initials.... because it's moving too fast to take names! It's all in my thread to end all threads. If you want to know all about it, take a weeks vacation and read through it. But if you want me to cut to the chase... after Axiom redesigned the sub-amp and I moved the thing to a better location, my life has been forever changed.

I'm a happy Canadian living in America listening to Canadian speakers in an American living room with Canadian ears and an American fiancee who loves her Canadian man even though she's still married to an American man who helped the Canadian man build an American living room to put the Canadian speakers in. That sentence is pretty long, but I can say it all in one breath.

I read it in one breath too.

Interesting story on the American/Canadian/speaker/fiancee/husband topic!

I was afraid to trudge back into your 'uber' thread for the answers (I actually gave a half hearted attempt but quickly gave up) so thought I'd cut to the chase. Glad you're happy with the new EP800. I hope to have one in my future one day too. But for now I'll just have to live with the 'baby' EP500

Cheers!

Good to know.

I started to pull out my couch going to attempt what you've done. But I quickly thought about the layout of the room. I very much doubt that would pass the WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor), regardless of how good it sounds. Ha. So I figured, I would just live without knowing.

BURRRN HIM!!

HA!

You know, I might have figured out a curious solution to that. The frame of the couch would allow me to put either sub in the couch...

Yes, but that's easy for someone with a Hindenburgh shaped head.

You have a tallent my friend. That story was even more sad than 'The Notebook'. Watch out Nicholas Sparks, there's a new tear-jerker on the block!

Well I have made quite a bit of headway. Surprisingly.

As it turns out, having the sub on the couch (for listening position) is not equal to having the sub position on the floor in the listening position. Having done the sub-crawl this way, was very different.

Long story short, I found a position that actually blends quite well. It was about three feet out from the corner, and about a foot out from the wall. The LFE signals are the best sounding they've ever been. Though, I am still thinking about putting the other sub under the couch. We'll see.

You tried putting the sub ON the couch? Lol, that would be a new one alright. CV needs to post a picture of him sitting between his twin EP800's on the couch, that would be priceless!

If your sub does indeed fit under your couch, that might be an interesting spot to try it in forsure. I am imagining the entire couch vibrating almost as much as Grunt and his Buttkicker. Worth a shot anyway.

Funny, that's exactly what I did as well. Put my EP500 on the couch in the main listening position and then crawled around. To me it was just logical as that way the driver would be reasonably close to actual ear position. Never thought about what I'd do with an EP800 or SVS cylinder sub! Twin EP800's on a couch - what a great mental image!