Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners M3 v2 - hardly any bass?

I live in SA and recently ordered a pair of m3 v2 and I need a bit of advice...if you don't mind.

I use to have B&W 600 series speakers and read all the great reviews of the Axioms. I don't know if it's just my set of speakers, but they don't seem to have much bass, compared to the B&W...maybe the neutral issue of the Axioms. Are they just like this? The aluminium speaker cone seems to be very loose when cranking it up a little...not as tight as my previous B&W 600 bookshelves, and I'm sure this affects the bass. Is there a big difference between the M3 and M60 as far as bass is concerned? I would like to buy these soon as I'm not too impressed with the M3's.

They probably need a good sub. What would you suggest...I don't really know what sub to look for.

I have a Denon 3805 Amp and Denon 2900 DVD Player.

Cheers,
Shaun

M3/M60, yes there is a big difference in bass. The M3 is a true bookshelf and plays a reasonable amount of bass, just not loudly. The M60 will reach lower in frequency due to the larger cabinet and extra drivers, this allows it to produce bass at a more useable volume level. A sub wil help fill out the lower end of the M3, even the M60 sounds better with a good sub, but is not really required.

You will also find the M3 has a different tone to it than the M60. If you like the overall sound of the M3 maybe moving to the M50 would be in order. It has one extra 6.5" driver and the larger box to help reinforce the lower frequencies.

The M60 is a little more forward with its presentation, the mids and upper range are a little more pronounced than the M3.

What size of room are these in?

Thanks for your advice Jay. Mel said that I should get hold of you and ask you for a bit of advice. He told me that you've heard all the Axiom speakers. Are the cones supposed to be that loose in the M3's. I was concerned that maybe something's wrong with them. My room is 6m x 4m.

Would I be happy with the M60's? Are they really better than B&W 603 S2's. The reviews I've read seem to claim that they can be compared to the 700 series B&W's. Shipping back to Canada is a bit pricey when living in SA.

Thanks Jay

I'd guess that if both cones are the same looseness, they're just fine. They may simply be longer excursion than your B&W cones.

There aren't many people around who have heard the M50v2s, so I would hesitate to recommend them. To my ears, the M3v2s were more similar to my M80v2s (and therefore M60s) than my M50tis (read v1s). That could easily be a function of the different versions, though.

When you say they are loose when cranking it up a bit, do you mean they are physically loose, floppy, move independently from the surround? Or is it just they have more movement than the B&W's?

The M60s are a very good speaker for the money. Last time I listened to B&w's was a number of years ago so I can't really comment on the differences, but I have listened to Paradigm Studio 60s recently and the M60s are equally as good IMO but again this is based on my memory of the M60 sound and the Paradigms were in a show room so YMMV.

I can add that I have the M60's and recently was without a sub. I set the 60's to Large and the bass was quite good.

The obvious question is are you running the M3's set to "large" in the receiver so they are playing full range? If you have the M3's set to "small" in the receiver what crossover point are you using (set in your Denon AVR)?

And too much ear wax















I need to get some sleep.......

I can second Jay's comments on the Paradigms. I could not find anyone local to audition the Axioms. I ended up going to a local Paradigm dealer - granted I did not do a double blind A/B test but as well as my audio memory serves the Studios and the Axioms were quite similar.....Rob

Well, admittedly we had the M50s wired out of phase for much of the test, but...

Drag those things out and do another test or did you sell them?

Oh, I've still got 'em. They get used at Xmas time. There's not enough room for the 80s when we have a tree. I wish I had more use for them, but they're just too big to set up as an aux system anywhere where they would get used (like the kids' room or the kitchen).

Thanks for the advice. I'll have a look and see if everything is set up OK on my amp. It's true that the Axioms probably have a longer excursion than the B&W's. I just thought that the looseness of the cones is what prevents it from having that extra punch in the bass...well this is what I've heard.

Overall, I'm happy with the M3's but maybe I should have a listen to the Paradigm's and if they what I'm looking for, I'll order the M60's and use the M3's as surrounds, seen that you say I'll get a fair impression of what the M60's sound like.

Thanks

Were the B&W's that you had ported or sealed? this may also make a difference to the cone excursion, I would think.

Well, I used them without the foam plugs.

How do you have the M3's setup in your receiver. Large or Small setting on the Denon?

I set them up as large now and they sound much better. Think I'll play around with the settings a bit longer. Maybe I made remarked to soon and could possibly have tried comparing them to my B&W floorstanders.

It was a while since I sold my B&W's now.

Now that I've played around with my amp settings, I'm far happier with the speakers!!

Thanks for all the help!

Yup, that'll do it!

if you have a sub, which I don't think you mentioned, you would not run them as large.

Glad to hear it was just a setup problem. It is a very common issue. I would leave the M3's set to large since you are not using a subwoofer at this moment.

Enjoy!

The bass difference isn't too surprising if the B&W's were floorstanders, as well.

I've had M3Ti (V1), M22Ti (V1), M22Ti (V2 I think), M50Ti and M2es as well. My favorite of the bunch - the M3Tis.

Big Will and I did a comparison of his M3Tis, his M60Tis and a pair of Michaura M55s. Interestingly, the M3Tis without a sub and the M60Tis without a sub were very similar.

My original M22s were flat sounding - as in flat, not in a good way. My M2s were similar. The M50s were excellent, but lacked something in the high frequency range.

I went back and forth between my M3Tis and Michaura M55s in my 2.1 SET tube system. I ended up with the M55s, which I preferred slightly to the M3s. The M55s had a more extended and sweeter high end, the M3s a wonderful upper midrange. Together they would have made a near perfect speaker.

M55s are Michauras which use the same 5.25" drivers as teh M22s but use the Axiom 0.75" titanium tweeter instead of the 1" unit. I don't know why they sound so good.

I ended up with a pair of Michaura M66s, a very large bookshelf using 2 Axiom 6.5" drivers and one 3/4" titanium tweeter. This layout is similar to the M50Tis, but to my ear sounded much better. I dunno why. The M66s and SET 5 wpc tube amp was a spectacular combination.

The M3Tis driven by a 5 wpc SET tube amp produced very nice bass, enough that I had to reinforce the nearby cabinetry to stop the low frequency resonances.