Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Finally upgraded my bass.

Well just about everything in my system has changed over the years except my $299 Infinity from Circuit City about 8 years ago. Honestly, in the corner of my room, its done a great job and more than I would expect for the price range. But the time has come for bigger, better bass. After considering SVS, AV123, HSU, Elemental Designs, of course Axiom...I decided on the MWF-15. A beast, that suprisngly is only $599.99. I should have it by next week, I'll post pics and a first thought. Anyone on here ever have any experience with this model?

Uh-Oh............


You do know the owner of that company is in court realting to Fraud charges and the MFW-15 has had Amp trouble. I have seen reports the amp has been updated but I believe the new amp is also having trouble, anyone verify this?

Is there any chance you can cancel your order before it ships? lol

Sorry but Jay is right. Mark Schifter, the owner, was indicted for charity fraud. He allegedly stole $150,000+ from his own forum/customers.

AV123 has had problems with their subwoofer amps for a long time. They just can't seem to get it right.

Here is a thread talking about the new amp for the MFW-15... NEW MFW-15 Amps.

Erik, the stench emanating from AV123 would cause me to avoid dealing with them. The unit you have on order runs about $700 with shipping; I'd be inclined to consider instead a sub such as the Hsu VTF-2 Mk3 on sale for about $130 less, delivered.

Oh man! Its exciting when you make a decision like this to seriously upgrade some of your equipment. The last thing you hope for is people raining on your parade.

Unfortunately, I have to agree with the others that have posted here.

The MFW 15, when it works, is a beast. The base design is good. It does, however fail in manufacturing/execution. There have been issues with:

- the amp. Sub-par component parts. A new amp was sourced, but that one too has higher than normal failure rates.

- the veneer. There have been serious veneer cracking/peeling issues with various AV123 products including the MFW 15.

- screws pulling out of MDF. I do not know the background on this one, but quite a few people have experienced issues with loose, missing and pulled screws. This could be a material or manufacturing issue.

- non delivery of product. This has taken place mostly with pre-orders on 'new' product. Some of these products never came to be, some a trickling out in VERY low volumes. There are people who paid 5 years ago for non product and have received neither product nor a refund.

The owner of the company has been charged with fraud as others have pointed out. There have been rumblings of other financial improprieties as well.

There are SO many good audio companies out there that there are a number of equaly cost effective quality alternatives.

Along with everything else that was said you should question the financial viability of this company and their ability to remain solvent. Which should then also make you question if they will be around in 3 years to honour the 3 year warranty in case something goes wrong. These subwoofers have a history of bad/blown drivers, a high defective rate of amps that pop and eventually stop working (a few have smoked), veener problems (fissures and cracking), loose screws due to incompetent assembly which cause the driver to "flap", and humming problems - both groundloop and those of which are fixed by taking out the amp and re-routing the wires away from the transformer.

My opinion is to cancel your order before they charge your CC and order a sub from a reputable company like ED, HSU, SVS.

Oh man what a bummer, I honestly didn't find any of this bad information on the web. I already sent in the email to cancel, I was going by word of reviews I had online, and many bass gurus liked it for the money. Im glad I got a heads up from you guys. HSU and SVS were my runners up, and what about Elemental Designs, do you know anything of that company because they are said to make a powerful sub for the sub $800 range as well.

The eD A5-350 was the sub in question, not a boatload of reviews out there for it, but what I do here is good.

I don't think you can go wrong with any of the subs from HSU, SVS and ED. Good move on cancelling your order. I am shocked in your recent web searches on the MFW-15 and av123 you did not come across any reports about the presidents indictment nor quality issues pertaining to the MFW-15.

I agree with our friends.

I've never heard a bad thing about the Hsu or eD products. I own an SVS PB12-ISD and it has been great.

For your price range, the eD A5-350 is $715 including shipping for a 15" driver, 500W, 108lb big box of bassy bliss.

The subs from Outlaw were designed in concert with Dr. Hsu, and their LFM 1 EX seems like a good value.

Some people are probably already tired of hearing it from me, but I was pretty disappointed that the new sealed line from SVS is manufactured in Taiwan.

I wouldn't take the EP350 off the list, but I haven't directly compared it to anything.

I'll second all of the alternate sub vendors that have been mentioned (HSU/Axiom/SVS/eD/Outlaw). Three months ago I upgraded to the Outlaw LFM1 Plus, very very pleased so far. Let's toss in Aperion as well. I've heard their Bravus 8D and will say it's a little dynamo...size does not matter.

Right now Outlaw has my eye with the LFM1 Plus. I don't own one yet, but by all accounts they are a good value.

snazzed

DT, If $800 is in the ball park for you it would be worth your while to check out the Epik Empire and Legend.

Hmmmm... I know you probably use this line all the time with the ladies!

J/k... But seriously, did I fall for Axioms jargon, hook/line/& sinker? One of the reasons I purchased my EP800 in the first place was because in their discription of the beast they claim that in order to produce audiophile quality bass, you need a big enclosure.

So do these 'little dynamos' go 'boom boom boom' real loud, but just not as deep, or as accurate, or what? Why does Axiom claim that big enclosures are a must for truely heart stopping deep bass?

Or have I just been dupped?

Size most definately matters. The lower the bass note you want to reproduce, the more air you need to move. The size of the enclosure is definately directly related to the area of the driver(s)used in that enclosure.

There are two ways you can make up for driver size: increase excursion of the driver, better coupling of the driver to the air mass you are moving to make sound.

Of the two, more efficient coupling in the form of a horn loaded bass driver is the more effective, but both have their limits.

If I had the money Id have a EP 600 or 800, but thats way out of the question for me unfortunately.

I have the eD A3-300 and am completely satisfied with it. Before this I had the Hsu STF-3. While the Hsu was a great sub in its own right it couldn't keep up with the eD sub.

I had a bit of a write on it but can't seem to find the thread.

Looks like the A5-350 is on sale.

I just have this hesitation with eD for some reason. It seems they have so many different subs, the name is rather new to me, etc. I'll have to read more on them.

When I was searching they seemed to offer more bass for the buck than any other manufacture.

Jeez, Rick, you just didn't like the way I linked to the A5-350 or something?

Size matters. They have laws in physics!

According to Aperion, The -3db point on the Bravus 8D is 35Hz. That's probably fine for most music, but I would personally prefer a bit deeper extension for movies.

I just went to eD's site, SVS' site, and Hsu's site.

The Outlaw EX is still the only sub near it's price range that is rated to 16Hz, +/- 2dB. I wonder how accurate that is, considering no one else is getting an extension spec like that.

Kinda sounds too good to be true.

You think you're going to notice the difference between 16Hz and 18Hz?

In YOUR room?

Bwa Ha Ha Ha Ha!!

By the specs that ED A5-350 looks to give you EP500 level performance.

It's been a long day Tom, sorry.

Oh man, so many choices its brutal. Im sure with whatever route I go I will be very happy as it will be a big improvement over my little old Infinity. Im about to put hte 6 or so contenders in a hat and just pick one out!

It's real close to the EP600 if you go by sheer size and the specs aren't off by much. The difference in size compared to the 500 has to make some difference.

I have the Outlaw LFM-1 EX. The -3 db point isn't quite as low as 16 Hz but it isn't a bad performer. I definitely get some sub-sonic rumbling going in our apartment! They have some great deals sometimes on free shipping, which is when I picked mine up.

[img]http://picasaweb.google.com/107436420253998824536/SubFinal#5481327860912974274[/img]

Brian, what do you think of the Epik? I've had my eye on this one for a while as well as the A5-350 and SVS SB12-NSD. I like the dual 15" drivers but am not sure of the side firing. What I don't like on the ED is that it doesn't come in SIMPLE black.
My understanding is that in general sealed subs are better for music and ported for movies. How does the Epik perform in both?

Bruno, there's no validity to that sealed/ported comparison that you mention. The only factor established by that design consideration is the rolloff below the enclosure tuning frequency(12dB/octave for the sealed sub, 24dB/octave for the ported one). Other individual design characteristics establish the quality of the reproduction, which should be good for music, movies and music in movies.

Well I decided for the price of $509 plus $60 shipping to go with the HSU VTF-2 MK3. For my room the and the price it should be plenty of bass. I'll let you know how I like it when it arrives. This leaves some money left over so I can start saving for the emotiva upc-5 and preamp!

You should be very happy with the Hsu sub.

I saw someone said they were unsure of eD. They have been big in the auto subwoofer game for many years and have been getting rave reviews of their home products since they entered the market a few years or so ago, they do know their stuff.

Very good, Erik. Enjoy the sound(and the extra $130 you didn't have to spend).

You're going to be very happy with the Hsu, they make very nice subs.

Bruno, I am extremely happy with my Empires! As mentioned, there is not any validated data to show ported or sealed are better than the other for movies or music. I do now prefer the sound I get from the sealed subs when listening to music/movies. I have not done any A/B ported/sealed comparisons as I just built a dedicated HT and the Empires are the only subs I've listened to in this room. I have both located up front, firing towards the sidewalls, between my M80's and equip stand. No problems at all. There is an Epik thread on AVS which is quite informative just watch out for fanboys! Many people have been surprised and impressed with their performance. I have not performed any measurements yet, but I have ordered an Antimode 8033 sub eq and will take before and after measurements. I have never been one to rely on graphs because once you start you will never stop. If it sounds good to your ears, in your room, what does it matter what a graph states??? A lot of people want graphs to solidify a decision, or to know they are getting the most of their system which I can appreciate.

I'd love to see a head to head with the A5-350 and the EP500 personally. I didn't really dig a whole bunch into subs before I pulled the trigger on my Epic 80/800 system. I'm certainly not saying I regret my purchase, as I am more than satisfied with the EP800. But let me just say IF I would have been on a stricter budget, I think eD would definately have been the road I would have taken. They look to have an incredible range of subs from which to choose from, and each of them look to be more than worth their cost.

The one advantage I can see with Axiom subs is that the bigger ones do reach down VERY low indeed. Someone asked if you thought you could actually tell the difference between 16 and 18 hz.... maybe not, but I can tell you with absolute certainty that the EP800's claim to dig down to 13 hz isn't a snake oil claim. This monster does things to this room that I've never experienced with anything else, including that JL beast Shane brought over. I can feel things that I've never felt in a movie theater or anywhere else for that matter. I personally feel that there is a trade-off however when it comes to a sub tuned to reach 13 hz, than it might not hit the upper notes quite as hard. I may be wrong, but the JL seemed to really hit me in the chest a lot harder than the 800 does.

But for movies, deep is good!

I wonder how this would sound paired with an EP350, or EP500?