General opinions of lossless formats
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 92
old hand
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OP
old hand
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 92 |
So I am hard pressed to hear the "night and day" difference between old Dolby/DTS tracks and their lossless counterparts that many people claim. I have yet to get an educated, non biased reviews on it from others. Do you guys enjoy it, or find it relatively the same as the older codecs? Any references to particular scenes between DVD's and the Blu Ray counterparts also appreciated (that is assuming they didn't change anything in the mix other than giving you the bit for bit identical copy).
M60, VP150, QS8, HSU VTF2-MK 3, Marantz SR8002, Oppo BDP-83SE, 50" Panasonic Plasma
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Re: General opinions of lossless formats
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,654
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
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Erik, the tests , blind and otherwise, run by Home Entertainment Magazine a couple years ago have been discussed here. You'll note that the difference compared with the higher-rate DD and DTS compressed tracks used in BluRay discs was essentially inaudible. This of course measures the capabilities of the formats themselves and doesn't necessarily mean that as applied on a specific disc there couldn't be an audible difference, including a difference(e.g., loudness level)which isn't due to the format. The point is that the horrors of digital compression are grossly exaggerated in some quarters and can very closely approach audible transparency in some cases.
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Enjoy the music, not the equipment.
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Re: General opinions of lossless formats
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 10,420
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
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I believe he might be looking for the difference from old standard DVD tracks to the new lossless tracks, not the new lossy tracks compared to the new HD tracks on a BR.
Jason M80 v2 VP160 v3 QS8 v2 PB13 Ultra Denon 3808 Samsung 85" Q70
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Re: General opinions of lossless formats
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,654
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
Joined: May 2002
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Jay, the tests addressed that as well
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Enjoy the music, not the equipment.
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Re: General opinions of lossless formats
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 10,420
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
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I guess I should have looked at them
Jason M80 v2 VP160 v3 QS8 v2 PB13 Ultra Denon 3808 Samsung 85" Q70
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Re: General opinions of lossless formats
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,569
connoisseur
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connoisseur
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,569 |
So I am hard pressed to hear the "night and day" difference between old Dolby/DTS tracks and their lossless counterparts that many people claim. I have yet to get an educated, non biased reviews on it from others. Do you guys enjoy it, or find it relatively the same as the older codecs? Any references to particular scenes between DVD's and the Blu Ray counterparts also appreciated (that is assuming they didn't change anything in the mix other than giving you the bit for bit identical copy). I’m with you Eric. I find when I can tell any difference between it’s not the lossless codec but rather that the audio was re-mastered. I have noticed that more Blu-rays have DTS tracks which I have usually preferred to Dolby especially for music. I’ve found the same thing with SACDS vd standard ones. In my apartment I did a test of 128bit, 192bit and 320bit mp3s against FLAC and the original CDs using my headphones and found that only with the 128 and 192 bit mp3s could I consistently tell the difference with the FLAC or original. With the 320bit I really couldn’t tell the difference. And had I not known I was randomly comparing different bit rates there is no way I would have detected any difference.
3M80 2M22 6QS8 2M2 1EP500 Sony BDP-S590 Panny-7000 Onkyo-3007 Carada-134 Xbox Buttkicker AS-EQ1
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Re: General opinions of lossless formats
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 11,458
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
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I honestly can't say that I've heard a difference.
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::
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Re: General opinions of lossless formats
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 769
aficionado
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aficionado
Joined: Jun 2008
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Dean, Have you done the same experiment with your speakers instead of the headphones? That's something that I have planned to do for a while but never got to it.
Bruno M80s/VP180/QS8s/EP600/AVR-890 ------------------------------------ "The problem is choice..."
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Re: General opinions of lossless formats
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,181 Likes: 1
connoisseur
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connoisseur
Joined: Feb 2009
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That's my experience as well Erik and Dean. Mostly depends on the source material. On the Live at Radio City (Dave M and Tim R) Blu-Ray I did a comparison of the new HD track and the 'standard' surround track. Switching back and forth through the audio menu of my PS3 I did prefer the HD format as the soundstage was just 'bigger' - seemed to extend beyond the walls of my HT. But then again this was not a blind level matched comparison so YMMV.
Cheers,
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Re: General opinions of lossless formats
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,786
axiomite
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axiomite
Joined: Dec 2007
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So in reality, if the studios would record properly we could all live in audiophile nirvana. Well, except Bigweelz, who lives in a nirvana of his own making.
Fred
------- Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
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Re: General opinions of lossless formats
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Joined: Jul 2006
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Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club shareholder in the making
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Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club shareholder in the making
Joined: Jul 2006
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I'm still going to claim there's a significant audible difference, even if I have no research to back me up. Who needs blind listening tests when you have blind faith?
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Re: General opinions of lossless formats
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 10,420
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
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Blind Faith, that was a good group. Didn't they open for Negative Orange on one tour?
Jason M80 v2 VP160 v3 QS8 v2 PB13 Ultra Denon 3808 Samsung 85" Q70
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Re: General opinions of lossless formats
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,569
connoisseur
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connoisseur
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,569 |
Dean, Have you done the same experiment with your speakers instead of the headphones? That's something that I have planned to do for a while but never got to it. Basically it was harder to tell the mp3s from the FLAC using the speakers vs the headphones though this was with my M22s and not M80s nor was the room setup very good. I should rerun the test using my M80s which were boxed up for moving at the time to get a better “full range” comparison. Several posts down is a brief description of the results I got using my M22s. Here’s my original post on the test I did showing the results of the 128 and 320 bit comparisons: http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/ubbthre...true#Post241538The type of stereo encoding used to rip the mp3 had a profound impact (at least as much or more than bit-rate) on the SQ and ability to distinguish is from a lossless track. Listed from best to worse: “Stereo” 320bit indistinguishable from FLAC in blind tests. “Joint Stereo” 320bit only distinguishable from FLAC in blind tests on tracks w/discrete instrument placement. “Dual Channel” 320bit easily from FLAC in blind tests. Note that lower bit-rates did fare worse but the stereo encoding method was most easily detectable.
3M80 2M22 6QS8 2M2 1EP500 Sony BDP-S590 Panny-7000 Onkyo-3007 Carada-134 Xbox Buttkicker AS-EQ1
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Re: General opinions of lossless formats
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,077 Likes: 7
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club shareholder in the making
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Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club shareholder in the making
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,077 Likes: 7 |
I'm going to be annoying and say it should be 320 kbps, not 320bit.
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