Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater vp150 dispersion and possible timbre match problem

I was all set to order the m22tis, vp150, and qs8's then ended up doing my taxes and am getting more back than expected. So I was planning on bumping up the the m60s, but have heard some disturbing points concerning them and the vp150. First I am hearing dispersion problems with the 150, customers complaining about localized sound where they can tell it is right on top of the tv. Secondly I have heard that the 150 doesn't timbre match to the m60's very well. Can anyone elaborate on this subject before I take the plunge? They will be put in a 12 x 14 room with a 13 x 9 dining room adjoining it through a large opening. I sit 12' from the screen. The m60's will be about 12" from the back wall. If I can get it to fit the 150 will go below the tv but that means it will only be about 6" off the ground. If this doesn't work it will have to go on the tv.

fast_lane,

Last week I received my new pair of M60ti's and the VP150. I've got the M60's about 12' apart, and the center speaker is about 64" above the floor on a shelf directly above my 65" Mits. The main listening area is 12' - 13' in front of the TV.

Here's what you need to know: it is critical to adjust the output of the VP150 to match the output of the M60's. Since this can be difficult to do by ear, it is important to use a sound level meter (the best $50 I've ever spent at Radio Shack). If the volume level of the VP150 is louder than the mains, then YES it will sound more "out front" of the M60's and will be very localizable. Since the VP150 is a 6-ohm speaker, it will be louder with the same amount of input versus a similar 8 ohm speaker. That's probably why it has such a high sensitivity rating (95db). So you have to tame this speaker down a little bit to match the mains. On my HK 525 receiver, the VP150 needs to be about -3 dB from the mains. Once you get the output levels adjusted properly, the VP150 will blend right in with the M60's.

I haven't noticed any timbre matching issues. There is a scene in LOTR: TTT where Gollum is talking off-camera, and then his voice rolls to the center channel as the camera moves to him. This transition sounded seamless, I was rather impressed actually. It was more seamless than my previous Paradigm Mini-Monitor / CC-370 combination.

During a white noise test, the VP150 does sound a little different than the M60's. But this is expected because the way a speaker sounds is also affected by it's surroundings. Since the VP150 is mounted higher and sitting on a shelf, I expected it to sound a little different with white noise. Plus the M60's have one tweeter / one 5.25" / dual 6.5" drivers, versus the VP150's double tweeter / three 5.25" driver combination. This will, IMO, undoubtedly cause a slight difference in white noise reproduction. However when viewing real source material, any minimal timbre differences that are detectable with white noise are not noticeable with real listening material.

HTH,
Jason

Jason, Thanks for the reply. This brings a point to my attention. I don't have any room to play with in my HT setup. The M60's will only be about 6 ft apart from each other. One will sit about 4 1/2 feet from one wall where the other one will be in open space as it is next to an adjoining room. As mentioned my listening position is 12' from them. They will be placed only 12" from the back wall. I might be able to squeeze another inch or two but that is about it based on the room layout. Would I not be doing the m60's justice in this instance? Would m22's work better in this situation? Oh yeah, on a sidenote I have a rat shack meter that I calibrate all my speakers with through dve.

Ditto everything Jason said. I have M60/VP150/QS8/Hsu STF-2. The M60s sound great, and significantly better than the M22/VP100 I had before. The M22s were very, very good, so anybody considering those, don't worry. But in back-to-back testing the M60s sounded better to my ear -- a more full, rich upper bass and lower midrange.

Re the VP150, the YPAO auto-calibration on my Yamaha RX-V1400 usually dials back the center channel a couple more db than the L/R. Also when I manually calibrate with the RS meter using the test tones from my Sony SACD player, the VP150 seems louder before calibration. So that's consistent with what Jason said.

My temporary setup has the VP150 on the floor, angled upward about 15 degrees. Despite this when properly calibrated I detect no timbre match or localization problems -- it meshes perfectly with the other speakers. I sit 10 ft from a 50" Samsung HDTV, and the M60s are about 10 ft apart.

Ultimately I'll have the VP150 wall mounted just above the TV with the full metal bracket, and angled down slightly. My TV won't safely support the VP150.

I strongly recommend the M60/VP150/QS8 combo for both music and HT. The sound is magnificent -- detailed, rich, powerful, yet not harsh or too bright. It's like having a totally new music collection. However I also recommend a sub, despite the M60s relatively good base. Some find the M60s don't need a sub for music, but after trying it both ways I personally like a sub, even for music -- properly adjusted it blends seamlessly, adding some deep authority and punch without being artificial.

If you like music I recommend getting some multichannel material such as SACD, DVD-A, Digital Dolby or DTS 5.1 releases of current albums. Albums properly mixed for surround can sound very impressive.

I probably should have pointed this out but I am going to use this for 75% HT/ 25% music. My current setup is a sony 2es receiver, sony sawx700 sub (which I might add is an awesome budget subwoofer), a denon DVD-1600 which I use for dvd audio as well, and polk rm 6700's which I bought about 2 months ago and well, you know the rest. LOL.

These guys sound a lot more scientific than I am...so I'll keep my concerns simple. Your distance between the speakers may not be enough. I believe in my time here learning it's been widely discussed that the M60's need a decent amount of space to breath. I THINK (that's as far as I'll commit) that a minimum of 8 foot is ideal so you might be pushing your room setup with the 60's at only 6 feet. You might want to do some thread searching to make sure I'm not out of my mind. Either that or contact axiom themselves. They could tell you for sure.

Good luck! Congrats on the impending purchase.

-Nick

Well Nick i am a scientist and i concur with your assessment.
My M60s are presently at the 6 foot apart positions and it really is a tight soundstage (too small, too narrow).
In bringing the speakers to a larger room at a friend's house, they were placed about 8-10 feet apart and the seating position was about 13-15 feet instead my usual 8 feet.
The soundstage was FAR improved. They do need space to perform and i am hoping to increase the distance for our setup in the future to at least a minimum of 8 feet (measuring centre driver to centre driver).

Excellent! my months of hanging out here and not spending any money has been useful!

It's crazy...sometimes I compare the torture of hanging out here to being that of a 15 year old male deseperately pursuing first base

It is amazing what a little reading can do eh Nick?
The problem is usually finding a credible source....

fast_lane,

I agree with everyone else, 6' apart is a little too close for the M60's. In your situation, the M22's are probably the better choice, and the $400 you saved can go toward a good subwoofer like an SVS or HSU. Even with the M60's you would have wanted a sub for movies. So, IMHO get the M22's / VP150 with a decent sub.

Jason