Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater HT Setup Help Needed

Gents..I just joined to ask this question to direct user...I have been watchin Axiom for the last 8 months..mostly i spend my time on AVS forum....ok..

My front stage pic attached below:
My Setup Thought:
Room size 14X18
M60's Front(2) + VP180(1) + M22 Surrounds(4):: Its in my budget....
Fronts will be above subwoofers
Center will be on the ceiling...( I have to expand the ceiling point)..

Btw, I auditioned PAradigm Monitor 11 -- for Music it was amazin...for Movies i was not impressed..


Help me out...whether it will fit my room
[img:center][/img]

Welcome.

Nice work so far on your ht room...

IMO invest as much money as possible into your speakers and subwoofer(s) for a 5.1(2) system instead of stretching your budget out over a 7.xx system. Skip the rear surrounds for now and invest that money into the main speakers or the sub(s) portions. Also instead of 4 M22's, 1 pair of QS8 will be more than adequate.

Good luck and have fun!

M, welcome. Your room is clear, but the proposed speaker arrangement isn't entirely so. You propose to mount a VP180 on the ceiling? If you're going to use dual subs under the mains, M22 mains would be more appropriate. QS surrounds would generally give you a better effect.

For the first sub my budget is $750..... (Probably Edesign or Velodyne or Hsu or SVS)...
My stage height is 8" + Subwoofer will be 24" +
Thats the reason, I was thinking to choose M60 over M80 (in terms of height)....

If I keep VP180 paired with M60 is it ok...
So M22 is killer - better to go with QS8..i thought M22 is better than QS8...
So I should go with below
M60 Fronts
VP180 Center
QS8 Surround
1 Sub for now..
later next year...add another sub...

ohh..John : u dont recommend VP180?

Pairing the VP180 with the M60 is totally fine. The QS8 quadpolar design is specifically engineered for surround envelop. You have chosen some quality subwoofer manufacturers...stick on that path and you are surely going to get rewarded with an excellent sub. Overall, the system looks pretty darn good and when you go to add more speakers later on, start with the matching 2nd sub and then add the surround back speakers for 7.2 last.

Good luck!

My question about the VP180 was only that you propose to mount it on the ceiling?

If you are going to have good subs serving also as stands for the mains, the M60 would appear to have no advantage, and the height of the M22s would fit better.

If you have enough distance behind your listening position to the back wall(say at least 4')for a rear sound field to form, then the use of back surround speakers can be a benefit.

Man I wish I was starting a project from scratch like that, looks like fun!

Are you getting in-walls? I wasn't sure if the structures to the sides of the screen were to house the speakers in or wut?

I will look into it..thanks

18' Length room -- first row will be 11'...just for me and my wife..i am just going with one row at this moment (it may take 2 years to put second row...So i have atleast 5' from the rear wall..so i will like to utilize rear surround also...
In fact, my actual wiring is for 9.2 setup...I pulled additional cables closer to Fronts -- to use Heigh channels (for later,not now)

that structure will be covered by GOM 703 fabric (acoustically good) - Speakers will be inside -- Front and Sub

At first I pictured you just covering the front of the structures with GOM 703 fabric and I was worried the speakers would still sound like they were in a box. However, I think you are proposing that both sides of the structure shall be this "acoustically good" material. Interesting idea. I can't comment on how that will work but I hope you stick around and share with us the results.

Now I am almost 70% sure that I will go for Axiom..So i will be glad to join Axiom Club..ohooo..

You can't join the Axiom club until you are 71.678% sure you are going with Axiom speakers. Sorry, I don't make the rules, I just post them.

Sorry, the reason I selected M22 as surrounds is because, 4 surround speakers will be inside a Column,like shown in the pic...(pic is little ugly..), but you can get an idea of speaker location....

QS8 vs M22 as surrounds for this location?



QS8 Sound Waves
[img] http://axiomaudio.com/china/images/surround.png [/img]

Help me out ....

Also - How the M60+VP180 works at high Volume....

QS8's for sure. If they will fit on/in the column.

Not inside a column. They've got woofers on the top and bottom.

lol...yeah. The QS8's would need to be mounted on the outside of the column.

Heck, for that matter, standard M22s wouldn't work in a column. They've got a rear port. Best bet is inwall M22s, I would think in this case. At least they're designed to be constrained like that.

Or, or, or... Use QS8s and using a more tradional mounting, mount 2 of them between the posts on the sides and 2 on the back wall, where they belong. Mount the back ones higher if needed to clear door(s).

Edit: Also keep in mind that the place you want to put the subs might not work. It didn't in my living room scenario. I wanted the sub up front under the center channel speaker. But I experienced nulls throughout the room. Off to the side of the room for me was much better.

ohh..Sorry i didnt look at the inwall option here...
I will take a look at the Inwall M22....i will read the pages to find the difference between inwall and onwall..

Also,,,,whats the performance difference between M22 Book and M22 inwall....Just to learn and to know...
thanks..

Unless of course you happened to make the column's 19.8" x 7.3"

I don't think there have been any direct comparisons between the completely in-wall M22s and the bookshelf models, but the on-wall M22s don't have as much bass as the bookshelf models. I assume that's not the case with the in-walls, since they're deeper than the pure on-walls and therefore have more interior volume to work with. The in/on walls are a different matter. Confused yet?

I have both the bookshelf and the on-wall. I much prefer the sound of the bookshelf. It has a better overall sound to it. The size of the cabinet does matter. I can't vouch for the in-wall since I've never heard that one.

Edit: Concerning the on-wall M22, The bass is really hard to describe. There is bass and some of it is low bass, but there seems to be a gap in the mid bass. I've noticed this gap while comparing the bookshelf with the on-wall using the same source material. Also the highs are good, but to my ears and with my room there's a certain freq that produces a shrillness that's missing with the bookshelf.

7.36" is width (front face width correct?

My column depth will be closer to 9" - I can say that Front face of the speaker will be 9" from the wall...I can make it to this point...If i make 1" more -- it will look little odd on top of the tray ceiling by 1"...

Bookshelf depth is 8" , Column width is 9" -- 1" distance between the bookshelf and Wall ( banana plug will not be an issue here)
Only issue Port effect....

Reason to avoid inwall or onwall -- during speaker upgrade..it will be an issue to use it somewhere else..

I guess i am not annoying people here...i am very interested in these speakers (I want to buy it, not just for trial)

Heck no, we like questions.

If you're doing a false column type deal with acoustic fabric all around the speaker (as I think you're saying here), I'm less concerned about using the full bookshelf model. I still don't think the QS8s would work, but the M22s might work ok.

Ok dude let me just say that I was in your shoes a year and a half ago, dreaming of my new home theater and designing what I thought would look great. Now, I'm not saying you can't design a theater and then build it to your liking... it's your money, you can do whatever you wish with it. But let me just say, from experience, that sound waves don't always cooperate with your design plans.

All I'm saying is don't go locking yourself into any designs before you get your speakers in there and see what they sound like. The subs may work up front (they did in SRoodes HT), but they also may not (like in mine & Catbrats situations). And the surrounds might not be optimal where you have them slated to go at this time.

Now as I said in the beginning it's your choice if you decide to go with form over function, and there's also the chance that it might sound wonderful once you put it all together. I just thought I'd go ahead and warn you that speakers can be devilishly stubborn when you really WANT them to sound good in a certain location. Spiteful little buggers they are!

100% agreed with you...so your advice is check the speaker performance first before completing and ruin the sound effects and get locked...

i should decide the purchase before covering all the stuffs...

thanks for your great advise....I was thinking about it..but no one told me..thanks...

I'm really not trying to be a killjoy mind you, that is a seriously gorgeous set-up you have planned out... & you obviously spent some serious time and effort in designing it. It's just that I went about it the same way, designing my HT in such a way that I thought would look elegant while utilizing my space efficiently. And the space that I incorporated my subwoofer into the fray (built right into the wall below my TV) literally sucked the performance right out of my poor EP800!

So I just thought I'd give you a bit of a heads up about finalizing a design before you've tried out the hardware to make sure it's going to work. Which admittedly is very tricky indeed as sounds are going to change everytime you do something else to the room (like lay carpet, build the columns, enclose the structures on either side of the screen, etc...). So it becomes a real catch 22, you won't know what it's going to sound like until you're all done... but in a project such as yours, once it's done it's not so easy to alter.

The one thing you do have on your side however is Axioms excellent trial program. Simply order the speakers of your choosing, try them out in the areas you would like them to be placed, and try em out. If the sound isn't to your liking, and you don't want to move things around to try to tweak their performance to match your desired expectations, then you can return them within 30 days of purchase and try something else if that's what you desire.

But here's to everything sounding fantastic in all the locations you have picked out for the speakers at this time. I sincerely hope all goes well for you my man! That is one fine looking design.

The QS8's give you some options/leeway as they are known to be quite forgiving. Subs, on the other hand, can benefit considerably from correct placement. Each room is different, so it's a good idea to be patient with the room construction.

Anyone Please tell me the VP180 Side View Size..

I am almost decided to go with VP150...just trying to see VP180 fit in ceiling top..

If you mean how deep it is, it's the full 17" deep that the M80s are. As in... very.

Sorry I meant,,exact Side View..is it 17" Depth X 9.25" Rectanlge on side?

I see some slope in side view..cant find measurements..

Also Anyone in Houston TX Axiom Generous owner lemme audition the speaker??

No, the top slopes backwards. Check the original VP180 threads.

You can see a picture of it here:

Home Theater - Page 3 - VP180 (Page 76 of VP180 Thread).

thanks ...found the answer...

BUMP for the OP!

I am getting closer to the purchase ) Decided to go with VP150,M60,M22 & QS8 + Edesign Subwoofer.

Question:
Please see the picture below. Anyone recommend me the easy way to hang/mount the VP150 Speaker..I can't afford VP150 in terms of Room Size...
Ceiling Mount for VP150 - Help me out..



A

How much rrom under/over the screen is there to work with?

Some ideas to think about:

simply put a shelf under the screen and place the Vp150 on it, the VP180 would probably fit in this manner as well, or an M2, M22 on a short stand under the screen. Do you have a tiered seating arrangement? If so then a second center channel mounted above the screen would be recommended, either another VP150 or an M2.

thanks Jake...I contacted Axiom CSR and read the manuals. Their Full Metal Bracket can hold the speaker perfect for me.

Probably I will do the following:
Screw Back Board to existing Joists. and Mount the Bracket to back board. Then speaker to Bracket.
Additionally I will do something to prevent worst case breakage of Bracket..

Done deal..

Used the whole space for Screen...121" Diagonal..No space under the Screen. I tested with Polk Gear in the Ceiling mount.. I am happy with it ..

That didn't look big enough for that size of screen, which is why I thought there would be room under it.

Ya, the FMB will hold the VP150 but use caution. The VP150 has a threaded insert in the back of the speaker that the FMB simply bolts to. There have been a few reports of the VP150 twisting on that lone single bolt, so I would add an extra screw or two through the outer openings on the FMB mounting plate. There was another instance of the insert pulling right out of the back of the 150, the solution was to drill right through the back of the speaker and use a nut and bolt to hold the FMB to the speaker.

Don't over tighten the FMB. That will pull the insert through the back of the speaker.

Which eD sub did you choose?

Finally Pulled the Trigger tonight...I hope I will like it. I did Paradigm Monitor 11 audition before, Heard Axiom 5 series , own Polk Monitor series. Hopefully I will like the sound. I will probably listen with Pioneer 1120 or Onkyo 3007.

VP150 + M60 Fronts + M22 Surrounds

Should be an outstanding system, looking forward to the finished room pics.

If I may offer a piece of advice is unless the sub you purchased from ED is in stock (which most are not and generally built to order), I would suggest you keep on them regularly about promised delivery dates. Back a couple of years ago, I ordered something from them that missed two delivery dates and it took several weeks before I got the speaker. This situation has gradually worsened during the financial meltdown and recent forums show it. They make good products but because of my experience, I would be reluctant to ever order anything from them again.

Hopefully, this situation has improved in the last little while.

Casey - I will def consider ur advise. Thanks for da headsup...I have SVS in my mind too. Lets see, how i am going to like this Axiom gears.

Looks like you're going to have yourself a heck of a nice HT room and hopefully the Axiom sound will be just what the doctor ordered. Congrats!

Keep us updated with the progress of the room, looks great so far.

I am not audio expert at all...
Still waiting for 3 more M22's (coming on Monday)

First View on Axioms:
1. Package was nice, but got beat up by FEDEX people, M60 speaker box was damaged, but speaker condition is ok
2. B-Stock Items - dont know whats the difference with A stock items. Except I found lot of dust in the Speaker Grill.
3. lol, Axiom need to change their logo material "axiom" on the front of the speaker, very cheap material . could have been better



Running with Pioneer 1120 today. Tomorrow with Onkyo 3007.
1. Started with Random songs -- Boom, I was not really happy at all.
Turned off the music for 1 hour.

Started with Simple Music (Indian Movie Songs)
* Great - perfect
Then SITAR Music
* I can hear everything in that recordings from CC
Then Hotel California -
* Happy
Then some Pick Floyd songs
* Song quality is not good, i need to look for some original CD's or download some hq songs

Played Dark Knight Movie earlier before music, Didn't like at all...Too loud. Not crisp. Too much is coming out of Center Channel. I may need to set right Mode settings in receiver.

Tonight Plan: Lot of Vocal involved movie -- KILL BILL
Going to watch Kill Bill I.

So far : 70% happy

thanks guys..
Sounded Awesome

Did you calibrate the system?

Yesterday did the Calibration with Onkyo 3007....
As a beginner...I am totally satisfied with my purchase. Again just listened to the music. Sound is amazing....even my wife can tell the difference between my polk system.

I can't wait to install the Panny AE4000U and test it with the movie.

90% sure, I am gonna keep the system.I played the movie without projector..i couldn't feel by watching movie with out Video,just the sound....

Btw - Axiom M22's are perfect for me as surrounds..

Question to you guys:
I can't really afford Axiom Subs, any subwoofer that can match my system?

M, great to hear how the Axioms are working out well for you. One of the subs that should fit your budget and complement your Axioms is the Hsu VTF-2 MK3.

problem i will face..since sub will be very close to wall...i think i need front wiring - sealed or front ported...

I just read through this thread and found it very enjoyable. I have recently purchased a on wall 5.0 setup from axiom and am quite impressed.

Anyways, your project is coming together great. Love what your doing and I hope it all comes together and the sound ends up being great.

I see you are looking for a sub now and you mentioned it being close to the wall and considered front porting, sealed and ect. I recommend you check put SVS ultra subs. Fantastic company to deal with and they are among the some of the best. I currently run one of the PC13 ultras. I had a PB12 nsd/2 before this one. Dealing with them has just been downright awesome. Only took 2 days to arrive after ordering as well. I think a PB13 ultra would be perfect for your setup. Then add a second one later down the road.

Looking forward to seeing the finished product.

I would look to the sub offerings from elemental Designs, SVS, Hsu, Outlaw Audio, Emotiva.

Guys thanks everyone for assisting me. Speakers are great. Now I cant wait for 2-3 months to start watching movies.

Only thing I will come back to this forum is to find a tricky way to mount Center Channel on Ceiling and tilting in angle. I dont want to drill any holes to the speaker to screw up the warranty...

Watched some movies, played PS3 Game -- Speaker Rocks, Tested projector and speaker at the same time.

my logo..hehehe...

my intro video image he he

MY intro umage he he

I'll say it again - you are not right...

heheh..sirquack...Same Boat. still working on the Video too. But My PC sucks.
I wish I would have bought VP180..but its too much for that room, I have to compromise to go with big screen.

May be for my living room or Version 2 in 3-4 years..when VP200 comes...

Guys Quick Question :
Can I keep the M22 Speaker UPSIDE Down position? I would like to keep the Tweeters for all the surrounds at the same height.

Does it affect the sound or anything?

If you say no, I won't. If you say yes, I will be happy...

Note:
Right / Left Surround - Tweeter - 54" from the Floor - Regular Position
Rear Surrounds - 76" from the Floor - REgular Position
Rear Surrounds - will closely match side surrounds - Upside Down.

Sure, that would be fine. These are the bookshelf model, right?

If it didn't affect the sound, you wouldn't want to do it, right?

Yes sir..they are book shelf model...thanks for the input...

Left Surround speaker sitting very nicely on the column..

It looks as though you recessed the speaker in the column. If so, you will have more issues with the sound in this set up regardless of if it is upside down....

Bookshelves are not designed to be recessed and the port at the rear needs to breath.

checked the speakers for 2-3 days playing music and movies..at this position...sounds good to me.
Rear side, I have 2.5" space. , front will be Fabric Frame

Ultimately, that's all that matters

By the way, it looks sharp. I look forward to seeing the finished pictures.

Just cut out a small port(about the same size as the one on the back of the speaker) from either side of the column to allow the M22 to "breath" a little better into the room and cover that port with the same grille material and all should be good.

little update...

Bought A7S-450 ED Sub to pair with Axiom M60 system

Quick question:
1. Where can I find Axiom Speaker Logo, need to work on photoshop, been looking for Axiom speaker logo (large size file) white color font...

Email Axiom and see if they'll accommodate you. I think that's how others have done it.