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#389876 - 02/19/13 08:44 PM Re: M80's and Optimum 4ohm Receivers [Re: Anonymous]
GregLee Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/12/03
Posts: 131
Loc: Waimanalo, HI
I don't know why it is a fallacy to think that to drive a 4 ohm speaker, you need an amplifier specified for driving 4 ohm speakers. Of course, it could be wrong, but I don't see why its a "fallacy".

I've been using an Onkyo receiver TX-NR3008 for 2 years spec'd to deliver 140 watts into 8 ohms, and I've just changed to a Pioneer receiver SC-1522 spec'd to deliver 130 watts into 8 ohms. So I gave up a little power. But driving 3 4 ohm speakers, VP180, M80, M80, the Pioneer is sounding lots better to me.

Maybe it's relevant that the Pioneer has class D amps that are spec'd to drive 4 ohm speakers?
_________________________
Greg
VP180, M80s, M22s, QS8(4), CSW S305s, EP500, Pioneer SC-1522
M2i, M3(2), Pio vsx-1017

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#389879 - 02/19/13 09:29 PM Re: M80's and Optimum 4ohm Receivers [Re: tomtuttle]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10385
Yeah, at least we get a reminder of the naivete that was more common around here 12 years ago.
_________________________
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Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#389880 - 02/19/13 09:41 PM Re: M80's and Optimum 4ohm Receivers [Re: GregLee]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10385
Greg, any amplifier can drive a speaker rated at 4 ohms. The question would be how loud and how long until overheating shut down its protective circuits. For an amplifier to get an "official" rating at 4 ohms under the FTC amplifier regulations it would have to operate into a 4 ohm test load at the full rated power for at least 5 continuous minutes. This is unrealistic in the real world of home listening, of course, and amplifiers not being able to pass such a severe test without shutting down nevertheless have no problem with the M80s and other speakers carrying a 4 ohm rating.
_________________________
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Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#389881 - 02/19/13 09:42 PM Re: M80's and Optimum 4ohm Receivers [Re: Anonymous]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10398
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Not sure where you get that the PIONEER is rated to 4 ohms. B&O might rate their ice amps to 4 ohm but that is for their systems and power supplies, the SC is still only RATED to 6 ohms regardless of the use of ice amp modules. That's not to say that they won't drive a 4 ohm load as evidenced by your and many others use of the SC series.

D'oh! John beat me to it and much more informative as usual.


Edited by jakewash (02/19/13 09:43 PM)
_________________________
Jason
-----------------
TTTHHHPPPPPTTTT!

My HT

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#389886 - 02/19/13 10:42 PM Re: M80's and Optimum 4ohm Receivers [Re: tomtuttle]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7042
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: tomtuttle
Seriously, Greg. Why?!?!

Ran out of beer maybe?

Greg, if your pioneer sounds better, rock on. I have not had any issues with my Denon 2808 and when my daughter is over she keep telling me to turn it down. grin
_________________________
Fred

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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

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#389887 - 02/19/13 10:54 PM Re: M80's and Optimum 4ohm Receivers [Re: Anonymous]
brwsaw Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 10/12/12
Posts: 1021
My year old Yammy and my new M80s didnt mix as well as expected but I really like the reciever. Both the Yammy forum guys and Axiom said I wouldn't have an issue but twice in a row 3 hours into a movie night I lost the second built in amp.
The wife seen the home theater drawing I tactfully stuck to the fridge door and agreed I should get an amp.
Life is good.
I think the 4 channel ADA1000 now shown online might be mine.


Edited by brwsaw (02/19/13 10:56 PM)
_________________________
"everything that goes through a tweaker's head that usually doesn't"

Chesseroo (misquote, for fun)

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#389890 - 02/19/13 11:10 PM Re: M80's and Optimum 4ohm Receivers [Re: Anonymous]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10398
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Does seem a little odd for that series of Yamaha to have amp section cutting out, just the one set of speakers, the mains I presume?

Also wondering do you use any video upscaling in the avr when it is cutting out? I doubt you are as not many do, but those video chips have been known to create lots of heat when in use which will cause shutdowns.
_________________________
Jason
-----------------
TTTHHHPPPPPTTTT!

My HT

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#389891 - 02/19/13 11:48 PM Re: M80's and Optimum 4ohm Receivers [Re: jakewash]
GregLee Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/12/03
Posts: 131
Loc: Waimanalo, HI
Originally Posted By: jakewash
Not sure where you get that the PIONEER is rated to 4 ohms.

I got it from the specification in Pioneer's user manual, which you can check here. See page 119. I also checked my recollection of the Onkyo's spec before I posted. I'm not in the habit of making things up.
_________________________
Greg
VP180, M80s, M22s, QS8(4), CSW S305s, EP500, Pioneer SC-1522
M2i, M3(2), Pio vsx-1017

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#389892 - 02/20/13 12:41 AM Re: M80's and Optimum 4ohm Receivers [Re: jakewash]
brwsaw Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 10/12/12
Posts: 1021
Originally Posted By: jakewash
Does seem a little odd for that series of Yamaha to have amp section cutting out, just the one set of speakers, the mains I presume?

Also wondering do you use any video upscaling in the avr when it is cutting out? I doubt you are as not many do, but those video chips have been known to create lots of heat when in use which will cause shutdowns.


No upscaling.
Only front left.
Both times after watching a movie and about an hours worth of 2 channel listening after the wife went to bed.
The reciever showed no signs/codes/smell/heat just no audio from that speaker.
Since getting the amp I've watched many movies and never had a problem. Its odd but...
_________________________
"everything that goes through a tweaker's head that usually doesn't"

Chesseroo (misquote, for fun)

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#389893 - 02/20/13 12:56 AM Re: M80's and Optimum 4ohm Receivers [Re: GregLee]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10385
Greg, I took the time to check p.119 and found that the FTC required ratings were 130 watts into 8 ohms and 170 watts into 6 ohms. The 4 ohm rating they show was not by the standards required by the FTC for all amplifiers sold in the U.S., and presumably it couldn't pass at 4 ohms, since that certainly would have been specified. The unit doesn't carry an official 4 ohm rating.

Not that the lack of such a rating is crucial in real world performance. The Onkyo 3010(the 3008 wasn't tested)tested here did about 257 watts into 4 ohms. The Onkyo and Pioneer receivers you're discussing have substantial and similar 4 ohm capability despite the lack of the 4 ohm rating. You appear to be paying far too much attention to speaker impedance ratings as they relate to amplifier requirements.
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Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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