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#325443 - 10/12/10 11:28 PM Re: SVS Sledge Amps [Re: Adrian]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8130
Loc: Tacoma
The SVS wordsmiths do an admirable job.

And the products seem to be quite good (I own an old PB12-NSD).

But "sledge" is pure marketing, and they are making those amps in Asia. Buzzkill for me.

DSP seems like a good idea, though.
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#325444 - 10/12/10 11:35 PM Re: SVS Sledge Amps [Re: tomtuttle]
BlueJays1 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 4057
Loc: Porch,enjoying Bombay Sapphire
DSP is an excuse to raise prices and a good marketing ploy on their behalf.
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#325456 - 10/13/10 09:34 AM Re: SVS Sledge Amps [Re: Nashvegas Rocks]
Jc Offline
devotee

Registered: 06/27/06
Posts: 493
Loc: Sherbrooke, QC, Canada
Hi Nashvegas Rocks,

Axiom pioneered the use of DSP for subwoofer amplifiers many years ago. Competitors are now trying to implement it in their products; playing the catch up game.

The hardware for the DSP is easy to find but the software needed to allow the DSP technology to improve the overall performanec of the subwoofer is a diffrent story. Axiom has created its software and has been refining it for many years. It takes a lot of scientific research and extentive testing requiring uniqe skill, know how, elaborate equipment and more. Not many companies, including subwoofer companies, posses and master them as Axiom does.


Edited by Jc (10/13/10 10:00 AM)
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Axiom Audio Expert / jc@axiomaudio.com
Epic 80 - 180 - 800 (9.4 with dual centers) powered by dual A1400-8 = AUDIO NIRVANA

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#325471 - 10/13/10 01:01 PM Re: SVS Sledge Amps [Re: Jc]
davidsch Offline
aficionado

Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 678
Loc: Houston, Texas
Originally Posted By: Jc
Hi Nashvegas Rocks,

Axiom pioneered the use of DSP for subwoofer amplifiers many years ago. Competitors are now trying to implement it in their products; playing the catch up game.

The hardware for the DSP is easy to find but the software needed to allow the DSP technology to improve the overall performanec of the subwoofer is a diffrent story. Axiom has created its software and has been refining it for many years. It takes a lot of scientific research and extentive testing requiring uniqe skill, know how, elaborate equipment and more. Not many companies, including subwoofer companies, posses and master them as Axiom does.


Thanks for the explanation! I just know that it sounds great in my EP600.

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#325475 - 10/13/10 01:32 PM Re: SVS Sledge Amps [Re: Nashvegas Rocks]
BlueJays1 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 4057
Loc: Porch,enjoying Bombay Sapphire
Originally Posted By: Nashvegas Rocks
Just wondering if anyone has ventured over to the SVS site as I know they have launched their new AMPS with DSP to replace the aging BASH amps they previously had. I bring it up and also open this to Alan or Ian to see if DSP is something they plan on integrating into their amps in the future as well.

Quote:
The latest PB12-Plus is a revolutionary leap forward thanks to nearly 300 watts more power than older amps provided, and fine tuning only powerful Analog Devices™ digital signal processors could achieve. New frequency response charts tell the tale here.

Borrowing liberally from its phenomenally successful big brother, the PB13-Ultra, we've kept the latest features in this PB12-Plus, like proprietary free-breathing port flares, and added digital parametric EQ, and even variable pro-grade XLR inputs.

No surprise it rivals the previous generation PB13-Ultra in performance too. Of course that line gets its own new Sledge STA-1000D amp to maintain its edge in our big Powered Box lineup.

So even before you switch it on the PB12-Plus is clearly something different. Tap into depth, low-distortion power, and naturally flat bass response that upholds the SVS legend. With our fifth-generation "Plus" woofer and and that cutting-edge Sledge™ amp you are served an unprecedented combination of performance all still at a rational price.



300 more watts seems like a lot to add to an already acknowledged product?


It depends if there have been trade-offs within the design. For example if using a less expensive, less capable driver and compensating with DSP. Change the driver and all bets are off. A driver that is not as sensitive among other specifications for example, 300 more watts of power might not add much. So it really depends on the design choices made.

Do you know if there have been any other running changes to their lineup of subs besides DSP and a greater feature set in the amp section?
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#325497 - 10/13/10 03:58 PM Re: SVS Sledge Amps [Re: BlueJays1]
prototype3a Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/21/08
Posts: 108
Loc: Blacksburg, VA
I don't think DSP controlled products are a "marketing ploy". I would say that it is an inevitable "improvement". They are a class of devices that allow the manufacturers more control over the performance characteristics of their products.
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#325499 - 10/13/10 04:29 PM Re: SVS Sledge Amps [Re: prototype3a]
BlueJays1 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 4057
Loc: Porch,enjoying Bombay Sapphire
DSP controlled subwoofers can make improvements and like you said do give manufacturers more control but so does using better quality components like the driver itself. The degree of its benefits depends on other components involved in the design though. DSP or lack there of is not a deal maker or breaker for me personally. The overall design is whats important.

When it comes to commercial subwoofers and with the added cost of DSP technology, I wouldn't put it past manufactures to make trade-offs in other areas of the design to hit their market price points. All I am trying to point out is a subwoofer that has DSP technology involved is not necessarily better than a non-dsp controlled sub and vice-versa.

DSP technology does have a lot of marketing appeal with consumers as selling point over other components in the design like the quality of the driver and cabinet which all have an affect on the overall performance.
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I’m armed and I’m drinking. You don’t want to listen to advice from me, amigo.

-Max Payne

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#325502 - 10/13/10 05:09 PM Re: SVS Sledge Amps [Re: BlueJays1]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8130
Loc: Tacoma
Gotta agree with Dr. House here; a subwoofer is a system to produce certain frequencies, and there are technical and budgetary design decisions to be made throughout the process. It's the end result that matters, not the inclusion of a certain chip.

I should think that ANY useful subwoofer DSP would necessarily be very closely integrated with a specific driver (and enclosure, and amp...). I like JC's observation about software - even if you're using the same DSP chip, you'd need different DSP algorithms for each change in the other variables.

It kind of reminds me of the great Audyssey debate. Sure, equalizing your speakers to suit your room seems like a good idea, but - in practice - many folks feel it does more harm than good. Something does not become inherently ennobled (or "better") because a new technology has been applied to it; either the technology itself or its specific implementation could render the resulting human experience unsatisfactory.
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#325506 - 10/13/10 05:27 PM Re: SVS Sledge Amps [Re: tomtuttle]
prototype3a Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/21/08
Posts: 108
Loc: Blacksburg, VA
I totally agree that adding a "feature" to a device does not necessarily make it better. It all still comes down to quality of the total product, which includes, components, design and these days, software.

One prime example in the R/C heli world are the electronic speed controllers (ESC) used. Kontronik (based in Germany) has been the hands down leader in this respect for years. Their products just work extremely well with very little tweaking. However, there is a very large price premium. Castle Creations (USA) makes some pretty nice ESCs for about 1/3 the price but they are heavier, larger, and they just don't work nearly as well. Then, there is Align, (Taiwan) who makes some really cheap ESCs and while their products have many of the "features" of the other companies, they just don't work or have a tendency to catch fire.
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M22 VP100 QS8 RX-V665 DMP-BD55 SMS-1 LFM-1+ LG47SL90

Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm.

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#325514 - 10/13/10 06:56 PM Re: SVS Sledge Amps [Re: prototype3a]
MarkSJohnson Online   happy
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10672
Loc: Central NH
Originally Posted By: prototype3a
they just don't work or have a tendency to catch fire.

That would fall under the category of disadvantages, right?
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