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#326494 - 10/24/10 08:59 PM A friend came over to audition the Axiom
mpyw Offline
local

Registered: 07/24/09
Posts: 279
Loc: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
...after 1 hour, he said he prefer his old B&W 603's sound
The Axiom is too "bright" for him....and he's aiming for another B&W now....

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#326500 - 10/24/10 10:03 PM Re: A friend came over to audition the Axiom [Re: mpyw]
terzaghi Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 4848
Loc: Tulsa, Oklahoma
To each their own.
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#326502 - 10/24/10 10:49 PM Re: A friend came over to audition the Axiom [Re: terzaghi]
BlueJays1 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 4077
Loc: Porch,enjoying Bombay Sapphire
You win some, you lose some.
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Iím armed and Iím drinking. You donít want to listen to advice from me, amigo.

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#326506 - 10/24/10 11:54 PM Re: A friend came over to audition the Axiom [Re: BlueJays1]
grunt Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 3569
Loc: Nirvana
I thought that my friendís B&W 703s sounded a little better, not as ďforwardĒ or ďrevealingĒ which I preferred, at least at the time, as my M80s but not nearly enough better to justify the price.

I should take my M80s back over to his place or better have him bring his B&Ws over here and compare them again now that Iíve gotten more accustomed to the ďAxiom soundĒ and have more quality recordings which take advantage of it.
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#326583 - 10/25/10 04:41 PM Re: A friend came over to audition the Axiom [Re: grunt]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10398
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
There is certainly nothing wrong with the 603's, if that is what he likes, so be it. At least he was honest.
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#326607 - 10/26/10 08:26 AM Re: A friend came over to audition the Axiom [Re: jakewash]
Worfzara Offline
aficionado

Registered: 07/25/05
Posts: 709
Loc: London area, Ont, Canada
mpyw;

That is interesting, because when doing the blind test at Axiom, I found the B&W's brighter than the M3's. Granted M3's arn't 80's.
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Axiom M80, VP180, Qs8, EP500
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#326611 - 10/26/10 09:51 AM Re: A friend came over to audition the Axiom [Re: Worfzara]
BlueJays1 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 4077
Loc: Porch,enjoying Bombay Sapphire
Originally Posted By: Worfzara
mpyw;

That is interesting, because when doing the blind test at Axiom, I found the B&W's brighter than the M3's. Granted M3's arn't 80's.



... and the 603 floorstander is not the same model as the B&W bookshelf that was used in the blind testing either...
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#326614 - 10/26/10 10:58 AM Re: A friend came over to audition the Axiom [Re: BlueJays1]
Adrian Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/27/08
Posts: 6609
Loc: It's all about the location.
True, I believe those B&w bookshelfs at the Axiom blind test were from higher in B&W's lineup than the 603's. Anyway, as others have stated, if your friend prefers them it's entirely his choice.
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#326615 - 10/26/10 11:21 AM Re: A friend came over to audition the Axiom [Re: Adrian]
alan Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/29/02
Posts: 3186
Loc: Toronto/New York/Dwight
Hi Adrian and all,

Yep, the B&W 805 was a Nautilus model, the high-end line from B&W, which at the time it was introduced was $2000/pair. B&W now has a "diamond" 805, priced at an absurd $5000 a pair, which looks much like the Nautilus 805.

The B&W 600 series are the lower-priced line from B&W and, like Polk models, I've found them to be quite inconsistent in sound quality from one model to the next, or from one line to the next line. This inconsistency is not uncommon in brands that offer various lines of loudspeakers.

The other factor that you have to allow for is the tendency of owners of specific speaker models who come to accommodate the "sound" of their speakers as their reference, warts and all, and come to hear anything that's more neutral and accurate as a kind of shockingly new and different sound that they won't like unless they participate in a blind test and don't know what they are listening to.

Over the years I've spoken to some audiophiles who have been using what I view as mediocre old speakers for decades and who simply don't want change or are unwilling to acknowledge that just maybe their old speakers aren't very good. It's an all-too-human tendency.

Regards,
Alan
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Axiom Resident Expert

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#326619 - 10/26/10 12:01 PM Re: A friend came over to audition the Axiom [Re: alan]
BlueJays1 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 4077
Loc: Porch,enjoying Bombay Sapphire
Have you listened to the Revel Ultima Salon2 Alan? I think the M80's and the Salon2 would be the ultimate of blind listening tests. They seem to have similar design goals.

I was watching the Iron Man 2 extra features and the recording for the music soundtrack was done at Abbey Road Studio. I noticed they use B&W speakers as reference. The one room had multiple speakers I think in some sort of MTM design placed horizontally across a wall (on-wall). Do you know the purpose for that? Seems like a rather strange arrangement.
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Iím armed and Iím drinking. You donít want to listen to advice from me, amigo.

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#326621 - 10/26/10 12:20 PM Re: A friend came over to audition the Axiom [Re: alan]
casey01 Offline
aficionado

Registered: 07/03/08
Posts: 764
Loc: Toronto
Originally Posted By: alan
Hi Adrian and all,

Yep, the B&W 805 was a Nautilus model, the high-end line from B&W, which at the time it was introduced was $2000/pair. B&W now has a "diamond" 805, priced at an absurd $5000 a pair, which looks much like the Nautilus 805.

The B&W 600 series are the lower-priced line from B&W and, like Polk models, I've found them to be quite inconsistent in sound quality from one model to the next, or from one line to the next line. This inconsistency is not uncommon in brands that offer various lines of loudspeakers.

The other factor that you have to allow for is the tendency of owners of specific speaker models who come to accommodate the "sound" of their speakers as their reference, warts and all, and come to hear anything that's more neutral and accurate as a kind of shockingly new and different sound that they won't like unless they participate in a blind test and don't know what they are listening to.

Over the years I've spoken to some audiophiles who have been using what I view as mediocre old speakers for decades and who simply don't want change or are unwilling to acknowledge that just maybe their old speakers aren't very good. It's an all-too-human tendency.

Regards,
Alan



Whether or not someone thinks that a speaker company of B&Ws history and stature is important and how they conduct their business, it is interesting to note that not too many months ago, in a "Audioholics" review of one of their most recently introduced product lines, that other than the "top-of-the-line" Diamond 800 series, B&W is now manufacturing ALL their other models in China. Despite that, I haven't seen the price drop too much on their speakers.

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#326623 - 10/26/10 12:59 PM Re: A friend came over to audition the Axiom [Re: casey01]
FireGuy Offline
devotee

Registered: 10/31/07
Posts: 309
Loc: Buffalo, New York
Endorsing Worfzara's comment, I also found the B&W's (in the blind listening test) to be a little bright, a little leaner sounding. The M3's were fuller and more balanced, IMO.
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M22V3/M3ti/M2V3/Omega Super 5/Aperion 5C/OutlawLFM1+Sub/Denon AVR1906/YamDVDC750/AS AMP110

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#326626 - 10/26/10 02:26 PM Re: A friend came over to audition the Axiom [Re: BlueJays1]
alan Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/29/02
Posts: 3186
Loc: Toronto/New York/Dwight
Hi Dr. House,

Yes, I've heard the Revel Ultima in a demo at the Consumer Electronics Show, but never in the same room as the M80. When I heard the Revel, it was very neutral, wide-range and natural, much like the Axiom M80, and I'd wager that in a double-blind comparison, the two would receive almost identical scores and the "similarly good" ranking.

The Revel loudspeakers are generally very fine, and given Kevin Voecks's years spent in Canada (designing for Mirage)and his familiarity with the NRC program and the "family of curves" anechoic measurements, that's no surprise. The speakers he designed for Snell were among the best-sounding US speakers at the time.

As to the B&W at Abbey Road, that's expected, as B&W is a British speaker company and perhaps the most prestigious, highly marketed and expensive. I knew the late John Bowers (the "B" of B&W) and certainly the top-of-the line 801 and its various iterations were very good speakers and did fairly well in double-blind comparisons when I was a magazine editor, but not as well as several Canadian brands including Axiom, Energy Veritas, Paradigm and PSB.

I don't know what to make of the speaker configuration you describe seeing in the video.

Cheers,
Alan
_________________________
Alan Lofft,
Axiom Resident Expert

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#326631 - 10/26/10 02:50 PM Re: A friend came over to audition the Axiom [Re: alan]
BlueJays1 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 4077
Loc: Porch,enjoying Bombay Sapphire
Thanks for your thoughts Alan. I'd have to look at the Blu-ray disk again more closely but it looks very similar to this configuration. From reading the description on the website, I take it they are used as the surround monitors?

http://www.abbeyroad.com/studios/studio1/control-room/

Click on the control room.
_________________________
Iím armed and Iím drinking. You donít want to listen to advice from me, amigo.

-Max Payne

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#326635 - 10/26/10 02:58 PM Re: A friend came over to audition the Axiom [Re: BlueJays1]
Ken.C Online   content
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17755
Loc: NoVA
Looks like they're center channel speakers used for surrounds. Probably aesthetic reasons.
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I didn't do it, no one saw me, you can't prove anything.

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#326642 - 10/26/10 04:09 PM Re: A friend came over to audition the Axiom [Re: Ken.C]
alan Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/29/02
Posts: 3186
Loc: Toronto/New York/Dwight
Yes, I agree, and it almost seeems like they may flip up or go into the ceiling out of the way when they're not used.

Alan
_________________________
Alan Lofft,
Axiom Resident Expert

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#326645 - 10/26/10 04:35 PM Re: A friend came over to audition the Axiom [Re: alan]
BlueJays1 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 4077
Loc: Porch,enjoying Bombay Sapphire
The funny thing about that special feature on the disk is we find out Tom Morello from the band Rage Against The Machine/Audioslave has problems with the 7/8th time signature and odd time signatures in general. He had a tough time recording one guitar part in particular. I was kind of surprised about that.
_________________________
Iím armed and Iím drinking. You donít want to listen to advice from me, amigo.

-Max Payne

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#326646 - 10/26/10 04:38 PM Re: A friend came over to audition the Axiom [Re: BlueJays1]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16268
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
Almost like finding out Einstein couldn't tie his own shoes.
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#326663 - 10/26/10 06:26 PM Re: A friend came over to audition the Axiom [Re: pmbuko]
BlueJays1 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 4077
Loc: Porch,enjoying Bombay Sapphire
If it was someone like Vai instead than it would hurt.
_________________________
Iím armed and Iím drinking. You donít want to listen to advice from me, amigo.

-Max Payne

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