Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners New Home Theater Build - Advice Wanted!

I am in the planning stage (and hopefully very near purchase time!) for a surround setup for my new work in progress home theater. I previously posted over at the AVS forums to get some rough ideas / confirmations, but would like to run my current proposed setup by the experts.

I am building a home theater in a approx 19' x 12' room. The direction we'll be facing is not ideal (not length wise) which I cannot change; Also, the couch is flush against the wall. Here are a couple Google SketchUp's I came up with:



Additional real photos of the room's current state can be found on my AVS forum post here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=19422536

Now for the fun stuff. I have a relative with Axiom's and I've been in love with the sound for a while... now it's my turn! Here is what I plan on putting in the room. This is where I'm really looking for input -- I want to make sure I get the appropriate models for such a sized room.

The lineup:
Front L/R: M22 v3
Center: VP150 v3
Surround (1 pair for 5.1 initially): QS4 v3
Sub: eD A5-350
Receiver: I've been looking at both the Pioneer VSX-1120-K and the HK AVR 3600.
TV (already purchased): Sony KDL55NX810

Any input, suggestions, etc. on the above is greatly appreciated! Is there a better choice of the two receivers above... something else altogether? Are the speaker choices good?

Welcome NuSkooler.

I'd upgrade the QS4s to QS8s if it were me, better range and power for only a moderate increase in $.....Why are the Q's in your diagram both on the side wall? is that assuming 7.1 with two on the cutaway side?

Denon or the new Onkyos seem to be the preferred choice of receivers here, generally.

Don’t assume that putting your display on the long wall is necessarily bad. It will give you the option of having a wider front soundstage w/o getting to close to the side walls.

What Axiom speakers does your relative own? I ask because I would personally change your speaker selection unless you have already heard all those speakers and know already that you like them.

I would consider changing your VP150 for a VP100 and using the money saved toward upgrading the QS4s to QS8s especially if you plan to run 5.1 even if just initially. I do think the VP150 would work fine in your setup I used mine in a similar situation with my M22s and it blended perfectly. But from what I’ve read the QS8s are noticeably better than the QS4s and I don’t think changing from the VP150 to the VP100 would be as noticeable.

Another suggestion since your seating is so wide compared to your display is to not even use a horizontal center speaker. With wide seating the better horizontal dispersion of a vertical speaker like the M22 or M2 would almost certainly perform noticeably better than a horizontal speaker. The same would go if choosing one of these speakers to put the savings toward upgrading to a pair of QS8s.

As for rear speakers I’m not sure you would get a benefit worth the cost of another set of QS speakers. As you intend I would start with 5.1 and try playing with the surround speaker positioning. You could even put the surround speakers in the back corners like one is pictured. This could help create a better “phantom” rear image. You could eventually order a pair of rear speakers and try them out. If it turns out not to be worth the upgrade return them within 30 days and I think for most of the small speakers like surround and bookshelf it would only cost $30USD a pair to send back.

Cheers,
Dean

I basically agree with Dean.

But I'd go a little farther. With the room as configured, you're not going to get diddly-squat from going to 7.1 from 5.1. Seriously. With the couch on the back wall, there's no place for "rear" speakers. Just get the QS8's and do 5.1 and enjoy yourself. Mount them either on the back wall or on the side walls.

If you can manage the aesthetics of a vertical center channel, that would be cool (even a M2). If not, considering the listening distance, you might not get much improvement by going from VP100 to VP150.

That Pioneer seems like a really good value. Denons are very popular. I also like Onkyo refurbs at either accessories4less or shoponkyo.

You are a sketchup God.

I love the look of the room, and that should be a great system. Enjoy the journey, and keep us posted!

Bryan, welcome. The first point is that your sketch indicates that there's room at the bottom of the screen for a vertical M2 center, which I'd strongly suggest for a wider and smoother horizontal dispersion. Don't recess the front speakers as shown on the sketch; to minimize reflection and refraction from the stand have them protruding a fraction of an inch forward.

With the couch up against the back wall there's not enough room behind the listeners for back surround speakers in a 7.1 setup to form a rear sound field. Stay with QS side surrounds for 5.1 positioned very close to the corners, mounted either on the back wall or the side walls.

As to the receiver, I'd suggest that you consider either a Denon or Onkyo unit with Audyssey MultEQ auto-calibration and room equalization. The best buys can be had in factory refurbished units(which should be at least as reliable as brand-new ones), with Denon models being available from Dakmart and eCost and Onkyos from Accessories4less and ShopOnkyo.

Thank you all for the reply's so far... I wasn't expecting so much feedback so fast!

Yes, the sketch is attepmting to show a cut out with the L 7.1 surrounds visible. I will update it to show 5.1. Someday I still may play with 7.1, who knows.

Note taken on swapping the QS4's for the QS8's. Makes sense, will do!

The center: Am I right in that the suggestions are saying to use a standard M2 bookshelf for the center? A pair? If nothing else, I'll definitely swap the VP150 for the VP100 if I say with a 'standard' center.

The L/R's I'll adjust to be more forward. What I have yet to figure out, but will have to is they need secured. I have a soon to be 1 y/o running around grabbing everything she can

I'll spend some time checking out Denon's and Onkyo's. I haven't done enough research between the two myself, but I've been told that Denon's have better video processing? Again, I have no evidence either way myself. This one is looking fairly nice: AVR-2311CI (though more power from the AVR-3311CI sounds tempting)

About the SketchUp: There are actually Axiom models available online to download. I pretty much just made the room to scale/etc.

Here is a small update to the diag:



Thanks again for all the helpful comments!

For your setup I was suggesting using a single M2 as a center speaker. On the speaker ordering pages there is an option to add only a single speaker to your cart rather than a pair.

Yes, a single M2 will work, you can try 2 closely together or the extra one mounted above the TV(preferred) as this high/low really helps anchor the sound to the center of the TV.

You could also look at using the FMB to mount the M22's to the wall a little higher up to prevent little hands from pulling/touching at them. Once the the kids are old enough(not sure when that is) you can then start playing with better placement or upgrading to floorstanders, this is what I did.

Yes, Bryan; a single vertical M2 center was what was suggested.

As to the receiver, a slightly higher maximum power rating really shouldn't be "tempting", and more power is one of the least important factors in a new receiver. The difference between 105 watts and 125 watts is only about 0.75dB in maximum loudness on split-second peaks. For example, a brief peak might use 105 watts to play at 105dB and could be played at 105.75dB with 125 watts, an insignificant difference. Any of the typical receivers rated in the 100-150 watt area have plenty of capacity for playing at safe sound levels in ordinary home setups and can be considered as essentially equal in that respect. Get the features that you want at the best price.

I used to have my Axioms in an area that put me 12 feet from my screen and really wide. It worked out just fine. No 2 rows of seating, but otherwise it was still good.

QS8's for sure though. Just a better speaker for the space.

Good luck and have fun!

Let me echo the "skip the 7.1" sentiments above. I went from 5.1 to 7.1 and, frankly, the difference is only in the bragging rights (which is to say there is no REAL audible difference).

The QS8s are remarkable in their ability to spread diffuse sound in the rear of the room. Save your money (but pre-wire the room for 7.1 nonetheless, if you are in the walls-open phase) and stick with the 5.1. You aren't missing out. Promise.

I would place the surrounds to the sides, rather than in the corners, too. The design of the QS8s will spread the sound out to the rear wall, which will spread the sound out.

I went from 6.1 (had a corner loaded layout and needed the rear channel to fill in the gap between Left Surround and Right surround) to 5.1 with a much better layout, very similar to yours and I find the 5.1 equally satisfying as it is layed out properly, no odd placements of surround speakers. I have yet to try the rear channel out in the new house, it would be about 2' behind so it might still work equally as well.

I've had a bit more time to research some receivers. I've shifted from eyeballing the Denon to the Onkyo TX-NR708. It looks to be a lot better value for roughly the same cost.

More on the center channel: I'm not discarding the suggestions I've gotten here about using a M2(s) as a center. However, I do have a 'standard' center in my current setup and it sounds good at various seating positions. How much of a difference does this make? I read a Audioholics article about this type of thing, but with sound is generally hard to say until you hear it, really. In your opinions, would it be *bad* to get a VP100 vs a M2 for the center? If it's that bad, sound will win out over looks but if the difference is going to be minimal, I may still go with the VP100.

One other thing: Custom finishes. How are the custom vinyl finishes? I'd really like a different than stock look, but can't even begin to rationalize +$100 a pop for real wood.

Bryan, the 708 would be an excellent choice and the best buy on it at this time appears to be the factory refurb from Accessories4less . It should be mentioned that unless the 708 has a new feature that you really want, the 707 is available there for $100 less.

The receiver you have chosen should work great. If it offers more features than a comparable denon I say go for it.

No it is not *bad*. I have one and it works very well. Like you said until you hear it only you wil be able to tell if it is good enough for your room/seating arrangement.


The custom vinyl finishes are very good especially the high gloss finishes, but only you can decide if they are worth the extra cost above the already excellent stock finishes.

Custom finishes are cool, if only for the "wow" factor of showing them off to your friends.

Know that you can get a bit f a custom look by simply swapping out the grill covers. For example, I have had good experience with a friend who bought her speakers in the standard cherry finish. We swapped out her black grill covers for white ones and the look was really sharp and modern. Her speakers certainly look like nothing you'd get from Best Buy.

The vinyl wraps are nothing special, but they are a reasonable facsimile of the real thing, if viewed from a distance. I would let your budget dictate this decision, but I would put it way down on my list, after speaker and amp selection. If you've got money left over after these things are taken care of, then maybe you do a custom wood finish on only the front 3 speakers, and do the rear speakers in a lighter wood (or even paint them, as I suggested before) in a standard vinyl.

TV arrived today... Went ahead and ordered the Onkyo and the Axiom's (did go with the VP100... I think I'll be happy!). Getting excited here!

More questions (Sorry! You guys are too good):

Anyone know if the 33lb speaker mounts @ Monoprice (http://www.monoprice.com/products/produc...=1&format=2) work with the QS8's? They have great reviews. At $42/ea I couldn't really justify the Axiom versions.

Looks to me like the will work but you will have to screw/bolt them to the speaker.

There don't seem to be any measurements for that bracket. I'm skeptical. If it is dimensionally too small, the amount of weight it will hold is going to be compromised pretty dramatically. Frankly, I think you're better off fabricating your own somehow if the Axiom ceiling mounts are too expensive.

I have bought quite a lot of stuff from Monoprice and had really great luck EXCEPT for a pair of speaker brackets I bought. They were plastic, though, so may not be applicable to your situation.