Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Stereo Review: M22 significantly better than M80

No, not that M80, this M80. Now that I've got your attention...

Introduction

I just got back from my audition of the Newton M80s at the local Cambridge Soundworks store in Berkeley. My first impression of the M80 was "Damn, that's a big bookshelf speaker!" I was expecting something a bit smaller. It's slightly shorter, but is significantly wider and deeper than the M22. Due to the Axiom's wedge shape, I'd estimate that the Newton M80 has at least twice the internal volume of the M22. After getting over the initial shock of the speaker's size, I noted its very attractive finish. Real wood veneer does a lot to make an otherwise plain box speaker look attractive.

Getting my bearings...

I then took in my surroundings. The audition space was set up similar to my living room (with the exception of the number of speakers!). A soft couch was positioned directly in front of a TV. On either side of the TV were the speakers. In between the couch and TV sat a coffee table. I also noted that the M80s were about the same distance from my seat as my M22s are at home. On to the music! (Obligatory disclaimer: all comparisons to the M22 are done on a strictly from memory basis. I did go immediately home after the audition and played several of the same tracks on my M22s so I could make better comparisons.)

Audition notes

The first track I played was from Dave Matthews / Tim Reynolds, Live at Luther College. What struck me right away was the pleasantly forward sound of the guitars. The highs were definitely not lacking in detail. All the harmonics that accompany guitar plucking and strumming were coming through well. When Dave started singing, however, I noted a slight bloat in the midrange. Nothing too unpleasant, but it added a coloration to his voice that wasn't to my liking. I couldn't help but think what his voice would sound like if only speakers were wedge shaped. The last thing I noted on this track was the great soundstage. When the crowd cheered, the ambiance of the hall came through very well.

As that CD doesn't contain much bass, we moved on to The Waifs, Up all Night, track 6. Again, the highs came through very crisp and detailed. The female vocals on this song were also pleasantly rendered. The acoustic bass, however, was noticeably boomy. It could be that the speakers weren't ideally positioned, but the boominess definitely detracted from the music. The M80s do go deeper than M22s -- with their greater internal volume and 8" woofers they'd better -- but they don't go there as neutrally.

The last CD I played was The Randy Newman Songbook. I picked a familiar track and listened carefully. The piano intro came through pretty well with the sound coming from a distinctly centered image. When he started singing, however, I noted a distinct edginess to his voice. Now Randy Newman doesn't have the smoothest of voices, but I thought the speakers accentuated that in a negative way.

Back at home with my M22s

You know the saying about taking guns from cold, dead hands? That's exactly how I feel about my M22s after listening to these 3 tracks again at home. I can't compare anything more than general impressions at this point (because little Steven didn't want me to right the review this evening...), but all I can say is that the M22 is noticeably more neutral and uncolored in the midrange and bass region than the Newton M80s. The music just comes together in a very convincing way. You hear the music more than you hear the speaker.

Closing thoughts

I think The Axiom Wedge is a really great innovation that gives their speakers an unfair advantage over conventional speakers. Right off the bat, they remove the possibility of box bloat (caused by internal standing waves) that plagues so many other speakers. With the M80s, this bloat was most evident in male vocals (the speakers do much better with female vocals) and bass.

It's getting late now (and the baby might wake up at any minute), so I think I'll close there. I hope it's clear which speaker I prefer.

If anyone wants clarification on any aspect, I'll do my best to follow up.

Peter, I bet that did get the attention of those who didn't know of your quest.

Nice review Peter! Thanks. What's next?

"No, not that M80, this M80."

Peter, you crack me up. When I was a kid an M80 was a loud firecracker. I suppose they're still around, but I haven't played with explosive devices since returning from Viet Nam.

Taking into consideration your perfectly reasonable, and understandable, bias in favor of the 22s, I'm very glad to hear your impressions. The M80s were what I was considering before I stumbled across this loony bin, and I'm sure glad I did. My 22s should ship next week. Thanks for the review.

I'd like to say thanks to Peter for his time and effort checking the M80s (CSW) against the M22s. I've decided to take his advise and pull the trigger while I can. I have the M80s at home now (can return until the 27th of this month) so ordered the M22s just now and will have them tomorrow. I'll be able to listen to both and compare at home. I do like the m80s. Far and away over the crappy wharfdale system I bought on ubid in 1999.
I'm hoping I won't want to return the M22s (since i just have to take the M80s a few blocks for a full refund!).

James (newbie to this 'best sound possible thing' and afraid... very very afraid)

PS any advice/recommendations for what to listen to/for would be appreciated.

Demo suggestions:

Jazz: Norah Jones Pretty standard demo disc.
Pop/Dance: Kristine W An unusually well recorded/engineered piece of dance/pop
Country: Johnny Cash You don't have to be a big country fan to appreciate some of the items on this treasure.
Classical: Holst: Planets (This particular recording is pretty amazing.)

and for a simply wonderful recording: Dead Can Dance (track #1 is especially fun)

James, please report your findings for us! Even if you find that (gasp...) you don't agree with Peter. We're pretty much in favor of civil, honest discussion around here. Except for tubes and cables, but I digress.

Anyway, your impending side-by-side comparisons could really add value to the general knowledge base for people considering these speakers, so let us know how it works out.

Thanks for the very thorough assessment of these two speakers. It was I who first raised the question on this board a few days ago. I now have the answer thanks to you and others who passed on their experience.

I live about 100 miles away from the Axiom warehouse in Ontario. Guess where I'm headed in a few days.

You lucky dog.

Craig, good to see that you picked up that Dutoit Planets which is one that we discussed. Besides the Dutoit, another one that I mentioned and have is the Mehta, which you should get(you can never have too many).

Pardon me for a moment, but DAMN! that was fast. I ordered then VP 100 and M22s yesterday at about 9:00AM PST.... i got them today at 10:08AM PST! Impressions coming later today.

James

I absolutely LOVE that disc! Wow!

Have you heard any of these?

Gardiner
Elder
Previn

I'm interested in buying one, but would love to hear some feedback first.

So here are my thoughts. Please read this with the understanding that it's the first time that I have tried to do a side by side comparison of speakers (read: I'm a novice so don't be mean to me please!).

First I’d like to say thanks to Norene and Amie for their great customer service! I’d also like to reiterate that from order to delivery was aprox. 25 hours from the factory to San Fran California… Wonderfully fast and the extra cost for all 3 speakers was $60.00 (I got the vp100 as well). Being of the Mtv 'gimme now' generation it was worth it!

Now my impression. I have an onkyo 601 receiver and listened to them with the mains set to large and w/o the subwoofer (for the music). I wanted to get an idea of how both speakers performed w/o the benefit of a sub. I had to set the left and right lower on the M80s (via the receiver config) as they were a bit higher/louder on my SPL at the same volume setting on the receiver.

First off I want to say that I liked the CSW M80s. I still like them. But I like the M22s more! Peter is right about the bass in the M80s. There is more of it but it's either boomy or somewhat mushy, not tight. I’d also like to add that on all CDs I can more easily close my eyes and point at the musicians. The M22s disappeared.

I listened to the following songs.
Taylor- Jack Johnson
This song starts out with Jack picking at his guitar and I heard every bit of it. Fingers sliding up the strings and so forth. This song has little bass so both speakers sounded good to me but Jack’s voice was a bit more forward/present/clear (which I liked) in the M22s

Carolyn’s Fingers- Cocteau Twins
I hated this song on the M80s. It made my head hurt. I can’t tell you why, but I had to make myself listen to the whole thing. I am not sure how to explain it but I felt assaulted while listening to it with the M80s. On the M22s I was just fine. I still had NO idea what the woman was saying :-), but could hear each syllable clearly and distinctly. To be fair I am not a fan of soprano voices. Kate bush is a great songwriter, but I can’t listen to her sing…

Closer – NIN
This is one of my all time favorite songs. On the M22s I heard layers I did not realize were there before. At the beginning of this song there is a very low electronic sound that I never knew was there before. I could hear them on the M80s only by turning up the speaker and listening for it specifically.

I am stretched on your grave – Sinead O’Connor
This is a great track and another favorite of mine. Sinead singing over the drum and bass line of a James Brown track (sex machine I think, but could be wrong). Her vocals were more forward on the M22s whereas on the M80s they stepped back into the beat more.

Crash – Dave Matthews
I am a fan of Dave’s and really like this song so I know it well on this CD. The M80s did well by it, but the M22s did better. There were a few times with the M80s that the word “Crash” either partially disappeared or was harsh to my ears. The M22s were perfect.

Live at Fulsom Prison – Johnny Cash (re-release for his 70th birthday 20-bit dig re-mastered)
Both speakers were nice here. However, to really hear everything well with the M80s I had to turn up the volume. The mids of Johnny’s voice and the deepest parts of Busted and Cocaine Blues were clearer and not as ‘mushy’ on the M22s as the M80s.

Gimme one reason to stay here – Tracy Chapman
This song open with an electric guitar being picked and on the M22s at low volume I hear everything. It’s great! Tracy has a great voice that goes from tenor to soprano (at moments) and the M22s had her clear and forward. The M80s did well, but again, her voice stepped more into the music and the speakers were not as transparent.

O Brother Where Art Thou Soundtrack
Down to the River and Pray
I love this whole album, but this song is great for showing off your speakers. This song is Alison Krauss with a subtle amount of background singers. With the M22s I (first time ever) heard the very quite and gentle but noticeable male vocals in the background. I never heard this on the M80s (had them about 30 days and listed to this album and song at least 4 times).
Lonesome Valley – Fairfield four
4 deep voiced men singing. Again, with the M22 I could point to where the men were standing and the middle was clear and precise.

Digging in the Dirt – Peter Gabriel
To be honest, this song is the last one I listened to and though I was already sure I was keeping the M22s and returning the M80s, this song cemented the decision. This song opens with a synth bass/percussion line. On the M80s it was ‘muddy’. On the M22s it was fantastic. I don’t know how else to describe it. I put the song in sat down and listened for 5 seconds and said to myself “Wow”.

Then I tossed in the DVD Movie Underworld. Not the best plot/diaglog but the opening is handy. It starts with a woman speaking in the middle of a thunderstorm. I could hear every bit of her dialog while still experiencing the thunder crashing. The next scene is a shoot out in a subway and I noticed bullet shells bouncing that I had not noticed while listening to the M80s. I then put in LoTR Fellowship of the Ring and watched the scene with the Balrog…. I was able to hear footsteps, background echos, every crackle of the Balrog… Again… WOW (I seem to say that a lot)… (btw I have a dayton 10in woofer from partsexpress for my sub-- studio living in an apartment building requires good neighbors)

So. My personal verdict is that the M22s win across the board. I am not really surprised considering everything I have read on this board and on others. The M80s are good speakers, but for the exact same (retail) price you can get the M22s and be sooo much happier with your stereo music! Plus shipping is included. That being said, if you can get the M80s for 250 or less and are stuck budget wise do so. You will like them. But, I’d still recommend saving up longer for the M22s…

James

Thanks peter for your time and impressions!

Ralph.. you made the right choice. I promise!

wow, you did a review that fast? kudos, congrast, and welcome to the latest bay area axiom owner.

James,

Glad I could be of service. Welcome to the family.

Hey, lets everybody be mean to James

Kidding, of course. I read your review thoroughly and appreciatively. Very nicely done, and I am grateful for your post. I especially liked the listing (and composition) of your song selections. Your review provides a valuable reference point for many.

I had considered the CSW M80's long before I discovered Axiom (or had the money to do anything about it). I continue to be excited by the experience listening to my Axiom M60's.

Thanks again for the post, James. Now go visit the beer thread!

Oh stop it all of you! You're driving me nuts! (Ok, nuttier) My 22s and VP150 shipped on the 5th, and they left the FedEx ramp at Mississauga, CA at 1:30 AM yesterday (the 6th). It's now almost 1 AM on the 7th, and I don't know where my speakers are.

Craig, from your list, I see that you may be aiming at SACD/DVD-A, and I can't help you directly on that point. I did see a little bit here that may be of interest. I have borrowed CD versions of Gardiner and Previn from the library and recall that I liked the Previn performance better(don't know Elder at all; haven't even heard "Pluto"). The CD sound was fine in both but my impression was that if anything the Dutoit sound might have been slightly better. I might suggest that since classical puts ambience rather than discrete instruments into the surround channels, it may be that the excellent Dutoit sound with DPLII extracting the ambience may give you just as good an effect as multi-channel discs.

Back to what I suggested to you a couple months ago, I have Dutoit, Mehta, Solti and Steinberg(obviously I need more), and I'll again say that you should add the Mehta and Steinberg( brief review ) to your Ormandy and Dutoit. If it has to be SACD/DVD-A, I suppose that I'd guess Previn.

Is this the Mehta disc you speak of?

Not exactly, Craig; it's the same performance, but the disc I previously suggested is on Decca Eloquence ELQ467 418(shown as in stock for about $8 at your Santa Monica, Westwood and West Hollywood Borders). Supposedly there was a remastering involved(haven't compared them)of what was already considered in its day to be a demonstration quality two-disc set(your link). Since I didn't really want another Also Sprach Zarathustra(had one on the Steinberg Planets, among others)and it was half the price, that's the one I bought. Highly recommended. As I said, I've listened to a whole bunch of Planets, and of course performance preferences vary, but I bought the four I've mentioned.

I've searched all over the borders (amazon) site. How the heck did you find that Decca release?

No Craig, I didn't look at Borders(Amazon)but at the Borders home site .

Aha...I went to borders.com which was basically amazon.com. Thanks.