Re: Receiver/Amplifier Reviews
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,116
connoisseur
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connoisseur
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,116 |
In theory two well designed receivers are not going to measure identical on the bench. So in theory it is possible two well designed receivers operating within their limits can sound different. There is more to an amp than frequency response like THD, S to N, output impedance, crosstalk etc.
There are other factors that really matter for amps in real world listening like listener preferences and the impedance and sensitivity of the loudspeaker used and how they interact with a particular AVR/Amp. Some amps will perform better than others with certain loudspeakers.
I’m armed and I’m drinking. You don’t want to listen to advice from me, amigo.
-Max Payne
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Re: Receiver/Amplifier Reviews
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,466
connoisseur
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connoisseur
Joined: Feb 2009
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Sticking with the speaker analogy. Speaker makers continually do things to "voice" their speakers differently to appeal to different people.
Though there are physical limitations when it comes to both emitting light and sound waves that will always keep displays and speakers from being able to come anywhere near the accuracy of the electronics driving them.
Pioneer PDP-5020FD, Marantz SR6011 Axiom M5HP, VP160HP, QS8 Sony PS4, surround backs -Chris
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Re: Receiver/Amplifier Reviews
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,466
connoisseur
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connoisseur
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,466 |
In theory two well designed are not going to measure identical on the bench. So in theory it is possible two well designed receivers operating within their limits can sound different. There is more to an amp than frequency response like THD, S to N, output impedance, crosstalk etc.
There are other factors that matter like listener preferences and the impedance and effieciency of the loudspeaker and how they interact with a particular AVR/Amp. Some amps will perform better than others. I'm not saying that every amp measures identically. I'm saying that amps with measurements beyond the level of human detection (well designed) will be indistinguishable from one another. If an amp's output is changed by a loudspeaker load to the point where its measurements shift into the audible range it is either one of two things: not well designed, or being pushed beyond the limits of its design. If an amp is designed with a "listener's preference" in mind, it is not well designed, but intended to purposefully color the sound in some way.
Pioneer PDP-5020FD, Marantz SR6011 Axiom M5HP, VP160HP, QS8 Sony PS4, surround backs -Chris
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Re: Receiver/Amplifier Reviews
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 6,928
axiomite
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axiomite
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 6,928 |
Rick just got propositioned by Rosie O'Donell's grandma and you guys are still talking about amps?
Half of communication is listening. You can't listen with your mouth.
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Re: Receiver/Amplifier Reviews
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,466
connoisseur
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connoisseur
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,466 |
I am a well designed debater.
Pioneer PDP-5020FD, Marantz SR6011 Axiom M5HP, VP160HP, QS8 Sony PS4, surround backs -Chris
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Re: Receiver/Amplifier Reviews
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 8,488
axiomite
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axiomite
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 8,488 |
I think Rick's story is more fun than science. You know, I'm bad at this stuff and I honestly don't really care, but... equipment that is many times more sensitive than human ears The flawed assumption here - for me - is that science can measure everything that can be experienced. I agree that ears probably can't do everything that equipment can, but why is it necessarily the case that equipment can do everything ears (and a brain) can? I know, flat earth. I get that a lot. Just making conversation.
bibere usque ad hilaritatem
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Re: Receiver/Amplifier Reviews
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 18,044
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 18,044 |
At that point, you're arguing that some equipment is spiritual (ie, the amp), while the measuring equipment isn't, aren't you?
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!
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Re: Receiver/Amplifier Reviews
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,210
axiomite
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axiomite
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,210 |
I have spiritual equipment.
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Re: Receiver/Amplifier Reviews
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,466
connoisseur
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connoisseur
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,466 |
I will concede, that if some one can repeatedly, and consistently demonstrate to show that than can detect some difference between two signals that can't be measured, then there may be more to audio reproduction than what has been measured so far.
But the thing is, no one has been able to demonstrate this. There's always big excuses, and complaints about the trial conditions. So until I see proof otherwise, I'm sticking with the current measurements of distortion and noise as what can be heard. And when they're small enough to not be heard, that's good enough.
Pioneer PDP-5020FD, Marantz SR6011 Axiom M5HP, VP160HP, QS8 Sony PS4, surround backs -Chris
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Re: Receiver/Amplifier Reviews
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Joined: Aug 2009
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axiomite
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axiomite
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It's not that hard. Buy a $100 receiver from Newegg, and compare it to a $800+ receiver. Instant day and night difference.
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