Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater VP180 impressions

Hello fellow Axiom Enthusiasts,
I am currently running M80 fronts, vp150 center, and Qs8 surrounds. I absolutely LOVE everything other than the 150. I even use M22 bookshelves in my bedroom and think they are top notch! The 150 sounded really nice in my condo but recently I bought a house and my living room is much larger now. For some reason the 150 seems to be stuggling to keep up with the mains and also sounds a bit hollow. I did experiment with turning up the volume to the center alone and that helped a tad. I am thinking about upgrading the VP180 but I am hesitant to pull the trigger without hearing it or at least hearing what people think about it first as the return shipping on this beast from California would be substantial. I have heard a lot of grumbling about the layout of the tweeters on this speaker. People who have yet to listen to a 180 seem to be instantly turned off to it because of the distance from one tweeter to the next. I would absolutely love to hear from Axiom owners who have the speaker, especially if you upgraded from a 150. Better yet, I know this is a long shot but if anyone in the San Diego, CA area has one of these and wouldn't mind demoing it I would be greatly obliged. Thanks to all in advance!

Hey Dave, I know if you use the search function there are threads from some of the other owners. Just search for VP180 in the subject line. I know SRoode did a very nice review and he has a kick a$$ setup. I just got mine, but am in the middle of remodeling the HT so haven't had a lot of listening time with it. Right now all my other speakers are packed away and the VP180 is vertical cranking up some tunes while I apply my mud coats to the drywall. Sounds killer.

I was wondering how 3 vertical VP180s would work behind an acoustically transparent (AT) screen. Would it sound better, worse, or the same as 3 vertical M80s?

Dave, welcome. I can't do VP180 impressions, but I do have a suggestion for a "new" center speaker that you can try for free to see if it makes a difference. Take one of your M22s and set it up as a vertical center(even in front of the screen for a temporary experiment)to get some idea of what a change might do.

I have a VP150 and have had similar questions in the past. I was hoping to hear things like "just get a second VP150 or add a VP100", but instead, I hear that the VP180 is significantly superior to even dual VP150 setups. That is frustrating since I don't like the idea of having to auction off my VP150 to get a VP180. I just fear that I won't get enough out of it to be an "easy" financial upgrade. It is definitely on my list of things to look closer at though. I hear that going from a VP150 to a VP180 is a bigger upgrade than going from M60 fronts to M80 fronts.

I will probably get another set of QS8's first though, but like I said, it will always be on my list...

Probably worse since it was designed differently for better horizontal dispersion when oriented horizontally . Though I suspect a vertical VP180 would sound better than a horizontal M80.

Here is a link to what I wrote when I got it. I'll also find other owner's comments.
http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/ubbthre...0941#Post310941

I'd still like to see someone try using VP180s vertically as mains. Maybe if I ever get duals for centers. Hey, maybe JC can try. While it's true that it was designed to be a horizontal center, I still wonder if the driver arrangement could sound decent vertically, since, Dean, don't you prefer your M80 tweeters elevated above ear level? If you made the mids of the VP180 at ear level, the tweeters would be above and below your ears instead of at ear level. You'd need a stand, which would be odd for such a big speaker, but I just wonder if the current M80 design (and that of a lot of other loudspeakers) is a compromise since most companies don't want to ship speakers that go from your floor to your ceiling, so it's just easier to make a speaker with tweeters at the top of the enclosure.

Axiom did test it with different layouts before settling on the unconventional layout they're using. Just because it looks different doesn't mean it's wrong... and I've heard nothing but praise from owners around here.

Best way IMHO for you to get an idea of what the VP180 sounds like:

1. Listen to the VP180 in your room.
2. Listen to a phantom centre from two M80's in your room.
3. Listen to the VP180 in some else's room.
4. Listen to a single M80.

These will give you a good idea of the VP180's capabilities IMHO; if you like the sound of M80's then you'll like the sound of the VP180. FWIW I actually found the phantom centre to sound quite close to the VP180, but the VP180 was even more defined and sounded way better off axis.

Yes, I hooked up 80's the 772 again because my Onkyo amp will be another week at least. Man, they sound good after not listening for awhile.

I am seriously thinking another VP150, just because I have one and probably fit it in easily compared to VP180.

The horizontal dispersion of the VP180 is quite good. I find that I need to exceed 30 degrees off centre before losing 2-3dB. I don't actually have any seating that far off, was just testing / measuring for curiosity sake.

Yes, if you leave it horizontal, that is the purpose of the design. Flipping it vertical would not be good for l/c/r as catbrat was asking.

What about if you set it on a 45 degree angle to split the difference? Eh, eh .

I'm not so sure that using the VP180 vertically is such a bad idea. I've heard Alan say that the VP150 in a vertical position sounds good. If that's the case, then perhaps almost any center channel speaker would sound good in a vertical position (excpeting those where they crowd all the speakers together).

It looks like it's only using a vertical speaker horizontally sounds bad.

I haven't heard anything negative about the 180 from owners. In fact, it's all been "glowing" and makes me want one.

To the OP, I'd definitely try one!

I'm sure it will sound ok, but the drivers are designed to have a horizontal dispersion when in a horizontal orientation, if you flip the speaker in no longer has the same qualities. Would be no different than laying a regular M80 on its side, you wouldn't normally do this.

Aren't the drivers the same in all of the different speaker cabinets?

Same drivers, and I am not a speaker designer, however, it is my understanding that the sound disperses horizontally, so if you flip the speaker it will be dispersing horizontally, not what you want and goes against he design purpose.

It's actually the crossover design that compensates for the front baffle being wider in the VP180; selecting a slightly different frequency response curve.

A speaker designed for horizontal placement will not be as linear when placed vertically. It'll still sound good, but some frequencies may be accented or attenuated more than it's vertical companion (which also has a curve manipulated for it's designated placement).

No one is saying that a vertically arrayed VP180 won’t sound good. You asked if it would sound better than an M80 which is very unlikely. I have not heard that comparison but can say that no speaker manufacture I know of puts a tweeter at the top and bottom of a vertical cabinet. Not even Axioms M80 which has both tweeters at the top. There’s a reason for this.

However, that doesn’t mean that a vertically arrayed VP180 won’t sound good. It might even sound better than a horizontally arrayed VP180 assuming you are basing sound quality on average frequency variation as one moves off axis. Audioholics did a test of various horizontal speakers with redundant drivers and found that in all cases arraying them vertically gave a better off axis frequency response. Some designs more than others. One thing to note is that a $115 vertical bookshelf speaker beat every horizontally arrayed horizontal center they tested. Only one horizontal center arrayed horizontally costing $2,500 equaled off axis performance of the $115 bookshelf speaker.

http://www.audioholics.com/education/loudspeaker-basics/vertical-vs-horizontal-speaker-designs

My own ears told me this when I first got my VP150 which is why I switched to an M80 center. Since then I’ve tested M22 and M2 speakers as centers and found they both beat the crap out of the VP150 arrayed either vertically or horizontally.

That doesn’t mean a horizontal array of drivers can’t sound good. Even me the vertical center nazi of the forum admit that there are time during movies and video games where a horizontal array of speakers creates a “wall-of-sound” that can give a more “movie-theater-like” performance that sounds quite impressive. I’ve even considered getting a VP180 and mounting it on a swivel so I can change it’s orientation between vertical and horizontal to have the best of both worlds but I’m just to lazy to try it since my M80 center already sounds so good.

Ok. Thanks guys. That definitely has swayed me towards 3 M80's for behind the screen speakers as opposed to the VP180s. Although I might have to mount them up-side down, which I won't know until I try them. But, that's still quite a ways down the road.

You will have no problem mounting them upside down as long as you can keep the tweeters or midrange drivers near ear level. I had my M80 center mounted upside down on top of my HDTV in my apartment while the L/R were sitting right side up on the sides of it and it was the best sounding front soundstage I’ve ever heard.

Of course if you turn the 180 vertical you can either sit and watch or lay on the floor and watch and get similar tweeter response

::puffs out chest and looks lovingly at hist dual M2 centers::

Nice, now you have me F*&^%# right up!

I read that AH article on center channels. Then they wrote a 2nd article that counters their points. WTF???

http://www.audioholics.com/education/loudspeaker-basics/center-channel-speaker

Are these guys bi-polar??

Its always about trade offs, your personal setup and what other influences there are (like an SO with different priorities).

Pick the solution that fits the best in your situation and be happy. None of the centers that Axiom offers are bad.

I was just messing with ya, I am happy....for now!

Nice, now you have me F*&^%# right up!