Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater BD player picture quality differences?

I might want to purchase a couple of BD players in the next couple of weeks for trade show disc playback.

When I bought my Panasonic a few years ago, I remember a fair amount of discussion about which version of HDMI was offered, and disc load times, and audio codec playback.

But I don't remember for the life of me as to whether or not people feel there are differences in picture quality with an HDMI output? I'm tempted to think it's like a digital output from a CD player....a 1 is a 1 and 0 is a 0.

But before I buy a couple, I thought I'd solicit opinions!

I think the biggest difference would be in PQ of upconverted DVDs. I wouldnt think anyone would be able to identify a difference in bluray players playing a bluray.

Good point, David. I should have mentioned that these would be for HD Blu-Ray playback only...AND "sound" would be simple two-channel only.

Two channel over HDMI? Then, yeah, the player isn't going to matter.

The biggest thing you'll need to worry about is if it will be getting firmware updates in the future. But even the trouble caused by Avatar's new DRM seems to have been fixed on every player affected within a week. Though for a trade-show I'm guessing this will be home rolled video? Just make sure to test a final disc before shipping out.

The other thing is the cheapest players have longer load times. But that isn't even much of an issue any more. Plus it is load time, once it's running they all run the same.

quote: "...once it's running they all run the same."

you haven't heard my BR player since i changed the power cord for one that costs $(censored) and has special gauge 8 wires inside.

just simply "night and day"; i can hear and see things that no one else can...

It is a cardinal sin to use stock cables.

Yup, cables will make all the dif, especially HDMI, I have the one from Wireworld and an upgraded Devil power cord on my prepro. it dosen't get any better.

You're using a Devil cord, but it's me who is sinning?

Thanks for all the info, guys. Looks like cheap BD players and HDMIs from MonoPrice it is!

I don't think I want to know what church throws in with cable vendors.


Ell Oh Ell. HDMI is digital. 1s and 0s. You don't need anything fancy pass all those 1s and 0s flawlessly. I hate to say it -- really, I guess I don't -- but you wasted your money on those WireWorld HDMI cables. Hopefully you got a good deal, at least. Best price I could find online is over $150 for a foot-long HDMI cable. And that's the cheapest model, too. Their top-of-the line HDMI cable is $500 for 1 foot! Ridiculous!

I put the money I saved going Monoprice into my 'High End Binocular' fund. Now there's a place where spending extra does yield discernable differences.

I'm glad I can tell, don't worry guys I will post pics when it's finally done. It was the cheaper HDMI cable I went with($500)

Since I wasted all my money on upgraded Onkyo prepro and amp,I figured why not waste more on wires.

Here is some info:

It's not just 1's and 0's, it's the timing!!
There is a fundamental difference between the transfer of computer data and digital audio signals. Computers are able to transfer digital data without loss, because the data moves in the robust form of blocks, which do not depend on specific timing between the sending and receiving devices. However, digital audio signals are continuous streams of data, which are quite fragile, since the digital processor must remain perfectly locked onto the timing of the signal to avoid data losses.

The Limitations of digital audio processors and cables create timing errors known as jitter, which remove portions of the audio signal and replace them with noise and distortion. Cables tend to round off the square waveforms of the signal, making them less clear to the processor, thus increasing jitter. This rounding effect varies greatly among cables and a truly superior digital audio cable can make great improvements in sound quality.

WireWorld digital audio cables utilize unique designs specifically developed to minimize jitter by providing sharper, cleaner leading edges on the digital waveform. At each price level, they provide the lowest jitter available, producing distinct improvements in clarity, image focus, smoothness and dynamic range.

Shawn, in short, WireWorld cables are simply more "danceable"!

Dancin' days are here again.

You copied and pasted that from their website. They cite no evidence in that marketing statement, which intermixes fact and hyperbole in order to convince you that you need their product. The human ear and eye can discern no difference between competently designed cables in any price bracket.

I replaced the stock power cord on one of my subwoofers and it become infinitely better.








Because it couldn't reach the outlet before.

Don't you wish wall outlets were movable? If you put a horizontal metallic bar filled with electrical coils all the way around the room, just behind the drywall, and then designed movable outlets that use induction to transmit the current through the wall that are held in place by strong magnets... Now that would be convenient.

There. Fixed dat for u.

And I thought I had great ideas.

Ok, what about my electric stapler. When I use a smaller(thinner) extension cord, the staples go part way in. When I Upgrade to a bigger cord, they countersink! Must be magic!

I'm sorry, but I got so tired reading the verbal drivel that these companies put out. It seems if you use enough tech speak that the masses will believe this crap. There is never any verifiable backup but there is always a big price tag. Anyway, thats my rant and I know I will never dissuade those that want to believe that the more money you spend the better the sound, the better the picture and whatever else money can buy.

And to continue that to its illogical conclusion, using one of those $800 power cables the staples will go all the way through the table!

No. The long, thin extension cable was enough of a restriction that the electromagnet couldn't pull enough current from the wall. But a properly sized cord allowed it to function correctly.

That's all you need is a properly spec'd cable to insure proper function. Anything more will add nothing.

I spent a lot of money on my HDMI cables. The longest one cost over $30. I know I could have gotten the same flawless image with a less expensive cable, but I like the company, their principles, and their build quality. So I forked out the extra bucks.

Blue Jeans Cable USA made Belden bonded HDMI cables are the best in the world. In fact they broke the HDMI record. HDMI cables are not made equal over long distances, though if you are running anything under 10 feet even the highest gauge, 3 dollar HDMI cables from Monoprice will work.

I just tie hairs together end to end and use those for wires.

Just to shim in the HDMI cables discussion, I also used to think that there all made equal until recently. All my HDMI cables are monoprice cables except one. They range from the 6ft cable to the 2ft and have all done their job flawlessly except in one case, the connection from my WDTV live to the receiver. For some reason, when I use one of the monoprice cable (I've tried a few with different length), I get this "sparkling" or "white snow" (similar to what some people get when a vacuum get plugged into the same circuit as the TV). I don't know if it's static, shielding problem but no matter the cable, it always happens. When I put an old 12ft Belkin cable that I had on hand, the problem disappeared. It's been like this for a year now without problem. A few times I tried to put back the monoprice cables but the problem comes back. I can't say I fully understand what's going on...and since I never had problem with the other cables (other than their stiffness), I never replaced them.

The "sparkles" are exactly what you get when you use an HDMI cable that isn't up to the task. Be it because of a defect, or just too long for the design. (Go even farther out of spec, and you won't get a picture at all, because the initial handshake fails.)

All HDMI cables are not equal. But if the one you're using delivers a sparkle-free picture, that's as good as it's going to get.

Its not a shielding problem, those are just a few of the artifacts that you can get when the HDMI cable can't pass a signal properly over its distance. This is what separates the men from the boys.

The distance in my case was pretty short, I tried 2/3/6ft cables and it only happens with this particular connection.

I'd say in that case it's either the driving or receiving circuit of one of the devices that is marginal. Combining it with a higher loss cable was enough to push it over the edge.

You're probably right and it's probably the WDTV.

Hmmm, very strange. I wonder if it was a bad batch or the particular model of cable. Where did you purchase them from? I have several Monoprice HDMI cables, 3-6ft and 1-15 foot in length coming out of my cable box all connected to an AVR and they all work fine. I was particularly concerned about the longer one, especially in the case of the cable box where connections AND performance can be real finnicky, however, I have had them all connected for over a year now with no issues and of course, none of the picture anomalies you describe.

I think it's more what Chris said and the transmitter on the WDTV might be on the edge. I have a 6ft monoprice cable from the TV to the AVR, a 4ft from the BD to the AVR and they work fine. Only when I make a connection from the WDTV to the AVR is when I have a problem. It's not a bad batch neither a length problem since I bought several cable a different times and tried different lengths.

The cable argument of old does not apply word for word with HDMI cables. You need to run a quality cable and can not get away with the typical Axiom board member philosophy of buying the least expensive widget you can find. This is especially true when lengths of 12' or more are expected. This does not however mean that you need to spend money foolishly. "Quality" does not necessarily mean "Expensive". But it does not mean "cheapest that can be found" either.

Agreed - that's what Chris meant when he said 'properly spec'd cable'. I think the Axiom board member philosophy is not to find the cheapest widget, but to find the cheapest widget that meets the requirements for the application at hand!

I don't think anyone says that the least expensive cable is always the right one. The philosophy is to get the cable capable of delivering the signal (or power) required.

The pencil lead-thin RCA cables often packed with A/V components are not suitable for the task of carrying analog video signals. Switching to a higher quality cable will improve horizontal resolution. Same goes for the 50' long speaker wires that used to be packed with surround receivers. They were so thin, that if the entire length was used, offered too much additional impedance in series with the speaker.

So it isn't "any old cable will do", it's "a cable of proper design for the task."

Having just upgraded from Panasonic BD35 to an Oppo 93 Blu Ray player, I have been happy with an improvement in video quality. It is not of the night and day difference, but I have extended abilities with my Oppo like adjusting colorspace and deep color settings. The biggest visible difference is enabling 30 bit deep color vs disabled deep color(24bit). Using Mater Tall Tales Blu Ray, the black and white detective cartoon is visibly smoother with an expanded gray scale when I use 30 bit deep color on my Oppo. It is evident using Spears and Munsil calibration disk that the contrast gradients are smoother for my TV when DC is set to 30bit on the Oppo. The video processor on my LED DLP is 10bit as well, so this marries up perfectly.

Regarding HDMI cable quality, that is a touchy subject. I always smile when I hear the "It's 1's and 0's" argument: usually employed in defending a purchase of a lower priced HDMI cable. HDMI signals are transmitted via micro electrical currents and as such can be affected by EMI/RFI which in turn can effect audio and video quality.

Oppo themselves have stated that if one is not adjusting the picture controls in the player the bit depth output makes no difference in the output. But what does happen, is some displays handle different bit depth inputs differently. Some doing expanding or compressing the range depending on what their native processing format is. That's probably what you're seeing. When you give your display a 24-bit signal, it is scaling it up to 30-bit with some artifacts. But when given a 30-bit signal it doesn't perform the expansion. Oppo does say to play around with the setting to see which gives the smoothest gradient on a particular display.

Yeah, EMI/RFI can corrupt the signal in an HDMI cable, which is what causes the sparkles, or pops/clicks in the audio. If that's happening, then get a better cable. If it isn't happening, then the cable you have is fine. Digital artifacts are pretty obvious; when things go wrong they do really wrong. It isn't like with analog where things may be a little fuzzy, or some frequency response is lost, and you can't be sure if you're really getting the best picture/sound.

Makes me smile too

I have some land in south Florida.....

That makes me smile too
First, in the digital world, you can't find a signal looking like that. Second, even if it would be, the irony is that what you sketched will still work since you drew a 1 being at the same level as your good cable and your rise/fall time being identical. Maybe you should draw something that actually wouldn't work

I think that's the point he was making...