Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater M60 and crossover

fwiw..YPAO set my xover @ 40hz and the mains to large. I use 80hz for the longest time and have switched to 60hz. I had a peak ~80hz and by using 60hz along with some EQing really helped tame that issue. You could make yourself crazy with all this but IMO is all about balancing and what sounds best to you...

Daniel, Bruno hit the nail on the head, since you have a universal crossover it gets set for the weakest link which are the QS's and it is not uncommon for them to have quite high crossover points based on their positions in the room and the room itself. I wouldn't hesitate to adjust that crossover down to 80hz or 60hz as long as the front sound stage sounds good, you most likely won't notice any problems with the QS's down this low either as long as you are not using the YPOA EQ settings.

I've been playing around with my system for the last few hours. I turned off the sub and setup my M60's to handle all the bass. I was listening to some Dianna Krall and to my surprise felt the speakers come more alive. I'm going to have to play around some more tomorrow. But I have to say I was surprised!

What's funny when I turn the sub on via the receiver and listen to the same cd, I noticed that the sub doesn't come on. I guess the low frequencies aren't low enough. But it did feel like some bass was missing. Just to make sure the sub was working I played some hip hop which did bring the sub on.

I'm not quite sure what's going on here. I may have to do some more playing around here.

One other question. I noticed on my receiver I can set the bass to "Both" which directs the bass to both my sub and M60's. But the crossover is still set at 60. What effect does this have? Wouldn't the M60's still be crossed at 60?

The effect is that the full range is sent to the M60s and everything below 60Hz is also sent to the subwoofer. So you end up with 3 sources of low bass. This can be very effective in evening out the low bass response in some rooms similar to having multiple subwoofers. It can also sound like crap. Very room dependent IMO.

I’m not sure of what placement options you have for your QS speakers but if you can put them in the back corners of the room, “corner load” them, it will boost their low frequency response which may sound better . . . or worse only experimenting will tell.

As billy p said it’s “all about balancing and what sounds best to you.” Also what Jakewash said that “you most likely won’t notice any problems with the QS’s down this low . . . .”

Dan, since I saw this thread still going, my curiosity finally led me to look at the 6080 manual, since I had the impression(recently I've paid much more attention to Denon and Onkyo models, primarily because of Audyssey)that on at least some Yamaha models YPAO would set each channel crossover individually, even if the manual setting had to be one frequency for all.

Checking the manual, the setting when done manually does use that frequency for "all the speakers set to "SML""(p.74), but in describing what the YPAO calibration(not room equalization)did , it states under "Speaker Size" that it: "Checks the frequency response of each speaker and sets the appropriate low-frequency crossover for each channel"(p.29). Because of that statement, the question would be what does the display actually indicate as to the different channels when YPAO sets the crossover.

If still necessary, I'd suggest manually setting a uniform 80Hz as a compromise, and not using the "Both" subwoofer setting.

When I run the YPAO and it sets the crossover, there's only one spot to check the crossover frequency. So in the speaker setup I select the front speakers and the options for None, Small, Large come up, you select one then it moves to the next set of speakers and so on. Once those are set it moves to the crossover frequency. The only option on this screen is to select a frequency. You can't select the speakers.

I don't see anywhere where you can see anything specific for the YPAO settings. If I set the crossover manually to 40 and then run the YPAO then go back to the crossover setting I can see it changed to 120. So definitely no setting that I can see for the individual channels.

There's an eq where I can select Auto PEQ or Center. AND that's about it for my receiver. Piece of crap! I wish I could have afforded a better one!

YOu know I'm starting to wonder if instead of getting M80's if I would be better off getting the QS8's and a better reciever...

Here's a photo of my place and how I have things setup. I did a panorama shot with my cell phone. It didn't come out great but you get the idea. I don't really have much space to work with. The shot of my sides was taken standing in front of my TV.



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I know with my 6190 in the auto set up menu I use skip except for the EQ when I run YPAO after I've done manual changes. I'm not sure about your receiver but you could try it and see...and I don't think we have a separate xover setting for individual speakers...just a selective one.

Btw...HGC looks very nice....

I reran the YPAO and this time paid more attention and looked at the manual as well. Once done you can view the settings it makes. I can see the frequencies for each speaker and size. Funny thing is it set my crossover to 160 and my mains to Large.

I'm not sure if I can skip any of the settings. WHen running I only see Exit which I assume cancels the entire thing.

If I change my crossover to 80 now and leave the eq settings I assume that would cause a problem because the eq is based on using the crossover of 160 for my center and rears. Or am I incorrect since the rears wouldn't use the eq all that much. Not sure how that would affect the center though.

Here's what I got for my main speakers. Have no idea what any of it really means though.
Front L
1: 63Hz--- -1dB
2: 250Hz--- -0.5dB
3: 400Hz--- -1.0dB
4: 630Hz--- +1.5db
5: 1.3kHz --- +4.0dB
Front R
1: 63H --- -6.0dB
2: 79Hz --- -1.0dB
3: 320Hz --- -1.5db
4: 500Hz --- +3.0db
5: 1.3kHz --- -3.0dB
6: 13kHz ----1.0dB
7: 16kHz --- +3.5dB

The negaive numbers shows you that the system had to drop those frequencies to try to smooth out the frequency response, so the FR of the RF M60 has a high point that required a -6db drop to bring it in line and at 500hz a 3db boost so on down the list. This is what the program is seeing in your room and it is your room/speaker placement that is causing the problem, not the speakers.