Emotiva Setup
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Joined: Sep 2010
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I intend to build up the Epic-80.180.500. Wondering which should be a better combination of Emotiva amps (with a flexibility to upgrade to 7.1 ch):
1. XPA 2 + UPA 5 OR 2. XPA 3 + UPA 5
Considering that I'll start with m80's, would the headroom provided by XPA 3 be enough to get the best sound out of M80's (and VP180) or should XPA 2 be my choice. My setup will be used for 70% music and 30 movies.
Thanks
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Re: Emotiva Setup
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Joined: Jan 2008
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I power my m80's 150 and qs8's with a xpa5 and it sounds great. Either way would work but if music is 70% of your listening in stereo I would get the xpa2. (its probably overkill though) If the setup was more for theater I would get the xpa3 If you have the money and the circuitry capacity I'd wait for the XPR7
Last edited by turbo16v; 03/23/11 08:56 PM.
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Re: Emotiva Setup
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Joined: Jan 2004
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I would consider Outlaw Audio amps as well, as they have a much better track record with the M80's. How big is your room and how loud do you listen?
M80s VP180 4xM22ow 4xM3ic EP600 2xEP350 AnthemAVM60 Outlaw7700 EmoA500 Epson5040UB FluanceRT85
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Re: Emotiva Setup
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Joined: Dec 2003
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The difference in power from the XPA 2 to the 3 I would estimate about 3db give or take depending on room, listening distance etc. I would go with the XPA 3 just have the center with the same power as the mains.
Jason M80 v2 VP160 v3 QS8 v2 PB13 Ultra Denon 3808 Samsung 85" Q70
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Re: Emotiva Setup
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Joined: May 2002
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shareholder in the making
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Sarang, "headroom" doesn't help to get the best sound out of the M80s or any other speaker. You should calculate the maximum volume level that you'll be hitting on brief peaks and should have a maximum amplifier output capability that can handle it. No additional headroom beyond this is either necessary or helpful.
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Enjoy the music, not the equipment.
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Re: Emotiva Setup
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 10,420
shareholder in the making
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I like to think of that 'headroom' as future proofing for a bigger room where I could then make use of it
Jason M80 v2 VP160 v3 QS8 v2 PB13 Ultra Denon 3808 Samsung 85" Q70
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Re: Emotiva Setup
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Joined: Dec 2007
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axiomite
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I like to think of headroom as safety margin as long as it does not come at a large cost penalty.
You don't red-line your car all the time either.
Fred
------- Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
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Re: Emotiva Setup
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Joined: Aug 2009
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axiomite
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axiomite
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I feel that if you don't have head room, you have limitations that will impact the sound in some audible fashion.
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Re: Emotiva Setup
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Joined: Feb 2009
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Why? If you're not hitting your head, it doesn't matter if you've got 1 foot or 10 feet of headroom.
One thing I think though, is that momentary clipping is more common than people realize, and that the recovery from a clip varies from amp design to design.
In that case though it's not headroom, but used power.
Pioneer PDP-5020FD, Marantz SR6011 Axiom M5HP, VP160HP, QS8 Sony PS4, surround backs -Chris
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Re: Emotiva Setup
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axiomite
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But your probably ARE hitting your head.
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Re: Emotiva Setup
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Joined: Feb 2009
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Pioneer PDP-5020FD, Marantz SR6011 Axiom M5HP, VP160HP, QS8 Sony PS4, surround backs -Chris
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Re: Emotiva Setup
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Joined: Sep 2010
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Thanks guys for the response.
I need a multi-voltage amp. since i may be moving out of the country by next year. this narrows down my options quite a bit. Outlaw, unfortunately, only provides with 110v option.
Although, I will be using the M80's at normal listening levels at most times, I may pump up the volume for small parties. Not sure what should be the ideal volume for a party, but a good headroom will definitely take away any concerns.
i have prepared a small excel worksheet showing various dB levels at varying distances from the speakers.
Speaker Sensitivity 91 dB Gain in Stereo Setup +3 dB Distance from Speaker (in meters) Wattage 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 1 91 85 82 79 77.5 76 74.5 2 94 88 85 82 80.5 79 77.5 4 97 91 88 85 83.5 82 80.5 8 100 94 91 88 86.5 85 83.5 16 103 97 94 91 89.5 88 86.5 32 106 100 97 94 92.5 91 89.5 64 109 103 100 97 95.5 94 92.5 128 112 106 103 100 98.5 97 95.5 256 115 109 106 103 101.5 100 98.5 512 118 112 109 106 104.5 103 101.5 1024 121 115 112 109 107.5 106 104.5 (Sorry, coudn't find a better way to paste from xls). Read: 91dB @1W, 1M distance and so forth.
Now, if I use XPA 3 (300W @4ohms), i would get around 106+3 dB @3m distance from the speakers. While with XPA 2 (500W @4ohms) I'll get 112+3 dB at the same distance.
Now the problem is that I don't know how loud 109dB or 115dB is? Has anybody out here gone upto 115 dB? Or is 109 dB more than enough for a small party?
Thanks
There are times when you can afford .......... but cannot buy!!
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Re: Emotiva Setup
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I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!
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Re: Emotiva Setup
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10 dB Normal breathing 20 dB Rustling leaves, mosquito 30 dB Whisper 40 dB Stream, refrigerator humming 50-60 dB Quiet office 50-65 dB Normal conversation 60-65 dB Laughter 70 dB Vacuum cleaner, hair dryer 75 dB Dishwasher 78 dB Washing machine 80 dB Garbage disposal, city traffic noise Prolonged exposure to any noise above 90 dB can cause gradual hearing loss 84 dB Diesel truck 70-90 dB Recreational vehicle 88 dB Subway, motorcycle 85-90 dB Lawnmower 100 dB Train, garbage truck 97 dB Newspaper press 98 dB Farm tractor Regular exposure of more than 1 minute risks permanent hearing loss. 103 dB Jet flyover at 100 feet 105 dB Snowmobile 110 dB Jackhammer, power saw, symphony orchestra 120 dB Thunderclap, discotheque/boom box 110-125 dB Stereo 110-140 dB Rock concerts 130 dB Jet takeoff, shotgun firing 145 dB Boom cars I hate jackhammers..
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Re: Emotiva Setup
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I would believe all the SPL are measured @1M from the source??
So to make my room as loud as a discotheque for a party, i'll need to reach 120 dB.
Also, when measuring the speaker sensitivity, does is consider dB @1kHz or the entire range??
There are times when you can afford .......... but cannot buy!!
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Re: Emotiva Setup
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I think you should be making it even better than the club and aim for 150dB.
Bruno M80s/VP180/QS8s/EP600/AVR-890 ------------------------------------ "The problem is choice..."
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Re: Emotiva Setup
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A birdy just whispered in my ears that dB that high can be potentially hazardous for me !!
There are times when you can afford .......... but cannot buy!!
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Re: Emotiva Setup
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Joined: Jan 2011
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i would be extremely surprised if you could stand 120dBSPL for more than a very short time at a party. around 105 dB is the max for movies; LFE up to 115 dB; it's designed for that.
Last edited by J. Bellemare; 03/24/11 09:31 PM.
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Re: Emotiva Setup
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After experiencing temporary hearing loss for several weeks and having extreme sensitivity to sound at times being muffled with ear fullness, intermittent ringing, buzzing and "whooshing" in the ear, I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. It hurts more than your ears but overall how you feel and general quality of life (disrupts sleep, headaches). Be careful with that volume dial folks!
I’m armed and I’m drinking. You don’t want to listen to advice from me, amigo.
-Max Payne
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Re: Emotiva Setup
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Thanks for sharing your experience Dr.House.
So that makes me zero down on XPA 3. This provides me with sufficient SPL (around 110dB in stereo) and also a headroom of around 4dB over and above 110db (considering room gain). This headroom will make sure that the amp does not go in clipping even at such high volume.
Thanks for the help guys.
There are times when you can afford .......... but cannot buy!!
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Re: Emotiva Setup
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Sarang, those numbers are invalid. They're based on the 6dB per doubling of distance factor which applies only to an omnidirectional sound source in anechoic conditions. For home listening rooms both direct and reflected sound has to be taken into account. Research by Dr. Toole and others has shown that the typical factor for such rooms is 3dB per doubling of distance, rather than 6dB. At 2 meters only half of the power calculated using the 6dB factor would be required and at 4 meters only 1/4th the power.
If you don't mind damaging the hearing of your guests and yourself those 100dB plus numbers which you've suggested would be appropriate. A safe average level shouldn't exceed about 85dB, with only brief split-second peaks hitting the 100dB area.
-----------------------------------
Enjoy the music, not the equipment.
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Re: Emotiva Setup
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in Montreal, a rock band leader was practicing on the stage prior to a concert. after a short while he calls the resident tech. and tells him that the monitors he installed are no good, he "barely can hear" himself playing. the tech takes SPL readings and shows the musician the results: 120dB SPL. the musician gets mad and yells at him that the equipment is no good, that he better change it for something more powerful...etc.
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Re: Emotiva Setup
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John, as per Dr.Toole's calculations, I will be getting a higher dB @3mts from the speakers than the number calculated by me. This goes on to show that XPA 3 would have enough headroom and be able to play speakers at deafening sound levels. XPA 2 clearly has more unusable power and headroom and therefore, a waste considering the high sensitivity of m80's.
Thank you all for helping me decide.
There are times when you can afford .......... but cannot buy!!
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Re: Emotiva Setup
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This goes on to show that XPA 3 would have enough headroom and be able to play speakers at deafening sound levels. XPA 2 clearly has more unusable power and headroom and therefore, a waste considering the high sensitivity of m80's Wow! So the XPA2 can play even louder than deafening levels! Totally agree, what a waste!
Last edited by bdpf; 03/28/11 06:50 PM.
Bruno M80s/VP180/QS8s/EP600/AVR-890 ------------------------------------ "The problem is choice..."
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