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#3451 - 06/05/02 07:28 PM Re: Cable match-up to the M60
CAV104 Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 118
Loc: Lake Worth, FL
Hey Randyman,

I sure am glad you cleared up that Canadian / U. S. dollar thing. Thought it was going to cost $104,000.00 but now it's only going to cost $13,880.00. I'll let you know when it arrives.

CAV104

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#3452 - 06/05/02 10:36 PM Re: Cable match-up to the M60
Bestboy4 Offline
buff

Registered: 04/15/02
Posts: 45
Loc: Columbia, MD
Think you all for your opinions and suggestions, they are greatly appreciated! I'm sorry if I came across a little harsh in my last messege.

As far as electron transfer is conserned, I believe that things such as capacitance, inductance, and resistance all play an important role in the way an analog signal is transfered from one point to another through a wire. They can change the phase, tonal balance, and/or cause distortion of a siganl. That being said, the wire dielectric and geometry changes those values tremendously. I would suggest reading Robert Harlery's book 'The Complete Guide to High-End Audio,' or visit the AudioQuest web site for more information on the subject.

Once again your suggests were very helpful and hope to buy some of that 12ga stuf from Home Depot for starters. In the future I will demo some name brand cables and post my thoughts in a later thread.

Thanks again!

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#3453 - 06/06/02 10:04 AM Re: Cable match-up to the M60
ravi_singh Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/14/02
Posts: 1351
Loc: Montreal
this thread is just HILARIOUS!!!

I, too, when first introduced to audiophilia, was considering spending a lot of money on good cables.. in the end, I bought some 12 ga OFC from pheonic gold for .75 cents a foot. It has a really thick jacket, which i needed because the wires get stepped on sometimes, since they wire my rear speakers. Whne i bought my center and front speakers, they came with Kimber 4PR, which is pretty good but I would not have gone out and paid 3$ a foot for it. It's a 14 ga wire, and claims to have great shielding, so there's less signal loss... yeah, it probably does, the sound was cleaner than el-cheapo 16 ga, but then again, 14 is thicker than 16, and my runs are 10 feet long.... it probably was the thickness that helped a lot.

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#3454 - 06/06/02 11:34 AM Re: Cable match-up to the M60
chesseroo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 4829
Loc: western canada
Bestboy, you are coming along the right track now in at least buying some "low quality" wire and testing it against more expensive stuff.
However, to do this experiment properly though you need to have a blind test. If you switch the wires yourself before listening you will never get an unbiased answer. Get a friend to switch around the different wires and make sure they never tell you which pair is plugged in. Do this test about 20 times (i'm not kidding) and then chek to see how often you actually picked the more expensive wire.
I've done this test as has 2 other friends of mine (using Kimber Kable, Audioquest, Monster cable, Acoustic Research and generic stuff) back in university. I managed to pick the Kimber Kable only 7 times out of 20 and the Acoustic research 11 times out of 20. THat averages out to 9 times out of 20 which essentially is 50%. THat is the number you would get if you picked either choice enough times at random. Use the same song, the same volume and the same equipment and even the EXACT same listening positions (don't cross you legs, bend over, move left or right, clean wax from your ears, sneeze, etc.).

The problem with reading books or online material is that it may NOT be true. Anyone can write a book and publish it. That doesn't mean it contains facts (i.e. love story novels or conspiracy theories).


If you really want to find out the truth about these marketing terms like "inductance, dielectric, etc. then read JOURNAL PAPERS from reputable journals.
These published papers are reviewed by scientists and their peers for acceptable content and proper scientific procedure. A journal paper will not conclude that one wire sounds better than another because it has some extra shielding unless they have PROVEN this fact with imperical data.
Such is the world of proper science.
I know the hype about better cables is tempting. I bought some more 'quality' brand name stuff recently (Ultralink 12 awg for a buck a foot) over the Home Depot material for 2 reasons: i was looking for a more flexible jacket and second, the Home depot stuff was actually 46 cents more expensive per foot.
Beyond the aesthetics quality of the cables, there would be little reason to pay alot of cash for cables to use on my stereo equipment that falls into the $2000 category (at present Onkyo DS797 and Panasonic CV52 dvd/cd).

When the cables start costing more than my speakers is the day i'm a millionaire and have the cash to blow just for fun.

But thanks for the lively conversation. THis thread is officially out of control.
_________________________
"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."

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#3455 - 06/06/02 11:44 AM Re: Cable match-up to the M60
chesseroo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 4829
Loc: western canada
I agree with you their Ravi.

Your speaker impedance to gauge may have been an issue in producing a strong enough signal. Mind you 10ft is still not a long run but i was advised that for runs of 10ft or less with 8ohm speakers to use 14ga or less. Longer than 10ft to about 40ft, 12ga and beyond 40 use 10ga. These distances decrease some what for 4ohm speakers.

I believe i got those approximate numbers from a friend here in town who repairs and installs truly hifi stuff for a living (e.g. for local yuppies who want those $50,000 systems).They were his suggestion according to what he uses for home installations for his clients and seem to be about what i've read from other ppl's perspectives in these forums.

I tried some 18ga crap (not even copper, probly tin or some kind of steel) that i had laying around with the axiom m60s when they first came in cuz i was waiting for my real cable to arrive. The sound was less than flattering. Almost sounded distorted and rough.

Now i have 10awg gauge all around just because i can. I bought one big chunk of it and now i don't have to remember or mix different gauges for a 6 speaker set up. They are all Ultralink standard 10awg, period.
_________________________
"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."

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#3456 - 06/06/02 03:30 PM Re: Cable match-up to the M60
michael4 Offline
newbie

Registered: 06/06/02
Posts: 1
Bestboy4,
I would suggest you ordering some mif-fi cable (Cardas or Kimber Cable) from an outfit (Audio Advisor) that has a 30-day return policy. Compare this against some Home Depot zip cord and let your ears tell you if there is any difference. Remember that your room's acoustics will also impact what reaches your ears.
When I purchased the M22's, I noticed that they were wonderful speakers, but were indeed forward, as many people have noted about Axiom speakers. (Soundstage Magazine said as much about the 80's in their review).
It's amazing how many people believe mid-fi speaker cables are a waste of money, but have no qualms about referring to a speaker as "bright" or "forward".

I will let you know how the $8.00 a foot speaker cables are when they get here next week.
Take care, Michael4

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#3457 - 06/06/02 05:05 PM Re: Cable match-up to the M60
Bestboy4 Offline
buff

Registered: 04/15/02
Posts: 45
Loc: Columbia, MD
Thanks Michael4, can't wait to hear about your cables. I was temped to buy the M22's, but I wanted to be able to biwire (another subject which I feel not too many people are on fire for around here), so I went with the M60's.

Andrew

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#3458 - 06/06/02 09:44 PM Re: Cable match-up to the M60
CAV104 Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 118
Loc: Lake Worth, FL
Hello Bestboy4,

If you are that much of a purist then you should spend as much money as you like to achieve the desired results. FYI I have had the audioquest web site bookmarked for some time now. I have also auditioned various cables and did not hear any tremendous difference from a high quality 12 ga. and as far as I could hear there was no difference at all. But thats just me.

I am curious about something and maybe you can answear this.
Why purchase of pair of speakers that you consider to be bright and foward then compensate for this with an engineered cable to get the desired sound? Why not just purchase speakers that have the desired sound you are looking for in the first place.

CAV104

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#3459 - 06/06/02 10:44 PM Re: Cable match-up to the M60
chesseroo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 4829
Loc: western canada
Good point about the speaker choice.
Sometimes the obvious eludes us all.

So what cable types did you try? Anything in the $10,000 range?
I would love to just see those things.
_________________________
"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."

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#3460 - 06/07/02 01:06 AM Re: Cable match-up to the M60
CAV104 Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 118
Loc: Lake Worth, FL
Hey chesseroo,

Well actually, yes, what I did try was in the $350.00 (us$) per foot range. I needed about twenty one feet, and let me tell you what a deal I got. The cable listed for $7,350.00 (US$). Guess what! The dealer took 10 percent off. I can't tell you how thrilled I was.

Oh, and by the way, after I audition them for about three days, I will UPS overnight them to you.

Whatta ya think? Sound OK.

CAV104



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