Re: QS8s vs. ERD-1 vs. FXi A4 vs. ADP-590
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 18,044
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 18,044 |
Bear in mind I've never heard the thing, though! And like I said before, make sure you have the space for it.
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!
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Re: QS8s vs. ERD-1 vs. FXi A4 vs. ADP-590
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 29
hobbyist
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OP
hobbyist
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 29 |
I've been listening to music on mine solo in a vertical orientation while I work on mudding my new HT room, sounds great Listening to your VP 180 vertically and solo? I'm not going to lie, I love the previous suggestion of having one above and one below the screen, with both horizontal...hmmm...maybe someday (after the bigger 3D Plasma screen, new 3D Blu-Ray and Butt-Kickers for the chairs...sigh...)
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Re: QS8s vs. ERD-1 vs. FXi A4 vs. ADP-590
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 29
hobbyist
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OP
hobbyist
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 29 |
From the look of that puppy, I'd say the 180. Be aware the 180 is HUGE. Very wide, and very, very deep. As for the size, the Center Channel that is in the lead right now, Paradigm's Studio CC-690, is 10" x 37-1/4" x 16-1/2" and 70 lbs. I pulled up the VP 180's measurements and they are pretty comparable at 9.25" x 39.5" x 17" and it is noticeably lighter at 56.8 lbs. It will just monopolize the shelf under the TV for now. I saw that the stand for the VP 180 is $245.00 USD, which seems like a lot for a $720 speaker, so I will have to play around with that.
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Re: QS8s vs. ERD-1 vs. FXi A4 vs. ADP-590
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 29
hobbyist
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OP
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 29 |
I think that would work just fine. Surrounds exactly matching the fronts aren't as big a deal as all the fronts matching. As for the fronts matching, I am approaching the overall dream setup in stages. Stage one is the four new matching surrounds and the (matching?) new center. Stage two is new tower speakers up front to match. Stage three is the new pre/pro and amps or A/V this fall (I'm waiting for the DTS Neo:X). Stage four (next Spring) is matching "heights" and matching "wides" speakers. Then, stage five is the second sub (I'm lusting after the EP800 v3 Subwoofer). All said and done, 11.2... wallah.
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Re: QS8s vs. ERD-1 vs. FXi A4 vs. ADP-590
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,077 Likes: 7
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club shareholder in the making
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Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club shareholder in the making
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,077 Likes: 7 |
Yeah, I'd make my own stands. I mean, I'd have my dad do most of the work.
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Re: QS8s vs. ERD-1 vs. FXi A4 vs. ADP-590
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 29
hobbyist
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OP
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Joined: Apr 2011
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You could put the center either above or below the screen (or one above and one below for you overachievers). Folks seem to think that the horizontal dispersion from a vertical center is better than any horizontally-oriented center channel.
BUT I think one of the big advantages of a vertical center is to have three identical speakers across the front. You don't sound like you want to replace your mains, which is fine. I've really liked all the DCM speakers I've ever heard.
If I was going to have a "dream home theatre" though, I'd get identical speakers for the L/C/R.
If you keep the DCM's, you're probably not going to get an exact timbrel match between them and the center channel. And that's okay, because even center channels from the same family (like Axioms) tend to sound a little different than their vertically-oriented brothers due to speaker placement and boundary effects and so forth.
Of course, most people aren't willing to make the aesthetic or design compromises necessary for a vertical center channel. I think that's okay, too. I'm really perfectly happy with my M60/VP100 setup, but I do recognize that designers have to work pretty hard on crossover baffle step correction on horizontal center channels, which can result in some tradeoffs you don't have to make on vertical speakers.
I think there is consensus around here that the VP180 is a pretty big upgrade over the VP150. I haven't personally heard a VP180, but I trust those forum members who have made the direct comparison in their homes.
I love my QS8's. I think they are terrific. I haven't heard your other surround candidates.
Have fun. I love the two center channel speaker idea (maybe I will add that as stage six to the overall long term game plan). Since it was suggested, I have been reading up on the vertical placement and people agree with you on the improved dispersion, I'm just still struggling with the look, the image of a home theater that comes to mind always has the center channel placed horizontally. I may have to play around with that when I get the speaker (and someday speaker s). Regarding my thoughts about the DCMs, see the post above too for the overall game plan, but I agree with you that the match seems like a must. I adore my DCMs and they partied like rockstars with me all through college (earning me more than a few noise violations), so I will be sad to lose them as the anchors, but, with an amp, they can be the music providers in the dining room or somewhere else in the house. Thanks for your time and thoughts on the VP-180 and the QS8s. The rapid feedback on this forum really speaks well of those who (assumably) have Axioms (the fact that there is a forum at all does too) and the passion they have for the products they decided to buy with their hard-earned money. It has gone a long way toward making it more likely that I may be among your company soon in Axiom ownership.
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Re: QS8s vs. ERD-1 vs. FXi A4 vs. ADP-590
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,077 Likes: 7
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club shareholder in the making
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Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club shareholder in the making
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,077 Likes: 7 |
I'm still debating the single M80 vs. dual VP180 center channel arrangement. Right now I have a single M22, and it hasn't really disappointed me at all, but I still like the idea of a) having matching M80s across the front, just because it's supposed to be ideal to have them all match exactly, or b) having horizontal centers both above and below the screen to anchor the sound to the screen. I could have an M80 directly behind the screen if I went with an acoustically-transparent screen, but I don't think I want the extra expense and the slightly compromised sound and picture. I have some time to make up my mind. I'll be interested in what you decide works best for you, too.
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Re: QS8s vs. ERD-1 vs. FXi A4 vs. ADP-590
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 29
hobbyist
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OP
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So, for your surrounds, you would choose the QS8s over the Studio ADP-590s if given the choice then? Do you have a 5.1 or 7.1 setup for your HT? In 7.1, would you recommend 4 QS8s? (Two for the side surrounds and two for the rear surrounds)?
Also, which Paradigm center channel did your in-laws have?
Thanks.
Yes, I would choose QS8's over ADP 590's. The 'quadripolar' driver configuration of the QS's are capable of amazing acoustical feats. Like you, the search for a better surround is what led me to Axiom initially. I was originally looking at the Paradigm Cinema series but was really unimpressed by the little Cinema ADP surrounds. I started searching and found the Axiom QS8's and then their in/on wall solution and the rest is history. My in-laws chose the Paradigm Signature W-Series in spite of me urging them towards Axiom. They had a much higher budget so did not mind paying more for the aesthetics of these speakers, and I have to admit they are gorgeous and well made speakers. They have the matching LCR combination using the horizontal center version. They do sound really great for on wall speakers. I have a 7.1 setup with 4 QS8's for the side and back surround channels. I would in general recommend 4 QS8's for 7.1, but that can depend on room configuration. Some guys on the forum here have noted that if the back surrounds are quite far away you might be better at going with direct radiating speakers. My HT is fairly small and I am mostly equidistant from all 4 surround channels so QS8's all around make the most sense for my room. Great minds...I loved Paradigm's center channel and their Sub 15 (I hear the Sub 25 is like a happy ending for your ears) but was underwhelmed with their surrounds. Like you, the QS8s intrigued me and have me considering just going with the whole Axiom line. Maybe next next week or so, it sounds like I may be able to audition a setup near my home with the M80s, a VP150, and 4 QS8s (sadly, no one in MN on the audition list has the VP 180). As for Paradigm's Signature Series, I just keep coming back to the price, and at $2,299.00 (plus tax) USD for the Center your in-laws got, I could have 4 QS8s and a VP 180 for $1,744.20 USD, shipped. With the leftover $$, I could get the 3-Channel Emotiva Amp that I am considering and have a much cleaner and more powerful overall sound across the system. So, where they didn't, I think I will take your advice on going with the Axiom line. Thanks for the thoughts on the 7.1 setup, that's good to know. My current room is huge (30' x 40') but, depending on where I get hired this fall, we will be moving and I don't know what my next entertainment room will look like size-wise. Given the QS8's capability to handle up to 400 watts and its high sensitivity, even if the two rear QS8s end being farther back, if I had them adequately powered, couldn't I just turn them up to compensate for the distance?
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Re: QS8s vs. ERD-1 vs. FXi A4 vs. ADP-590
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 29
hobbyist
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OP
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Senator(future aspirations?)welcome and congratulations on your upcoming graduation from law school. Be sure to study-up for the bar, of course. As for the surrounds, the QS8s are so outstanding that they are in my view the clear choice of those that you've listed.
The best "bang for the buck" in a center speaker would be a vertical unit identical or at least as similar as possible to the mains. The fine off-axis performance of the cc-590 and cc-690 is understandable, since they in effect are small vertical speakers handling the mid-range and treble, while flanking woofers handle the less directional bass. This was noted by the reviewer in the Epic 80 review now featured in the Axiom blog, where the extreme dispersion was the only area where the Paradigm center was considered to be superior. Again though, a regular vertical speaker is more cost-effective for such use. Over the course of law school, I have pointed to numerous problems in the laws as written and one of our professors pointed out that I should become a Congressman to rewrite the laws. A few of my friends took to calling me Senator and the nickname stuck. If that opportunity does present itself, I will jump at the chance (because it can be done so much better!) But for now, I am only worried about graduating, and per your suggestion, studying for the bar exam, and getting my reward in new speakers. So, you suggest another (third) M80 instead of the VP 180 for the center channel speaker? If I did get the VP 180 and mount it vertically above my plasma screen, would it best to tilt it back down toward my listening position when mounted?
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Re: QS8s vs. ERD-1 vs. FXi A4 vs. ADP-590
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,181 Likes: 1
connoisseur
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connoisseur
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,181 Likes: 1 |
If you're mounting vertically get the M80, if you're going horizontal, get the VP-180 - they are designed for those orientations respectively. They are after all more or less the same speaker with altered driver arrangements and crossovers to suit the intended orientation.
Good luck on the upcoming bar exam!
Last edited by cb919; 04/13/11 09:40 PM.
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