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Re: QS8s vs. ERD-1 vs. FXi A4 vs. ADP-590
CatBrat #345123 04/15/11 12:37 AM
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If you buy one then return it you only pay postage one way, just that initial cost for the purchase to overcome but cheaper overall.


Jason
M80 v2
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PB13 Ultra
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Re: QS8s vs. ERD-1 vs. FXi A4 vs. ADP-590
jakewash #345137 04/15/11 12:03 PM
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I was reading up more on comb filtering and came across this article, interesting read:
http://www.realtraps.com/art_spaces.htm

Re: QS8s vs. ERD-1 vs. FXi A4 vs. ADP-590
cb919 #345158 04/15/11 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted By: cb919
If you're mounting vertically get the M80, if you're going horizontal, get the VP-180 - they are designed for those orientations respectively. They are after all more or less the same speaker with altered driver arrangements and crossovers to suit the intended orientation.

Good luck on the upcoming bar exam!


Thanks for the good luck wish on the bar exam, I will happily accept it.

After looking at more comb filtering effect research, I am still leaning toward the upside down T-shape idea with the horizontal VP-180 just below the TV, angled slightly up toward the ear level at the seated position and the vertical M80 above the TV, angled down toward the ear level at the seated viewing position.

As far as options go, it seems to me that you could have, as you mentioned, one VP-180 horizontally above and below the screen. You could rock two vertical M80s either side of the TV or have one vertical M80 above and one below.

The two alignments that seem most efficient are 1)the VP-180s above and below and 2)the VP-180 below and the M80 above. And since other posters have suggested that the off-axis issue is most effectively addressed with the vertical speaker, that seems to be the best solution (if I can successfully concoct an effective wall mount for the angled M80 above the screen).
I may have to tap my best friend of many years who does custom cabinets and entertainment centers for help on that project.

Re: QS8s vs. ERD-1 vs. FXi A4 vs. ADP-590
Senator #345159 04/15/11 06:52 PM
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I think that's serious overkill. I would try a single VP180 or a single M80 first before deciding you need multiple speakers for the center channel.


I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!
Re: QS8s vs. ERD-1 vs. FXi A4 vs. ADP-590
Ken.C #345163 04/15/11 07:02 PM
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Ken's got a good point, but it's fun going overkill - especially with someone else's money! Now, how would you go about with a quad-center channel arrangement... ? grin

Seriously though, 3 M80's or other good vertical speaker equivalent across the front would be the ideal. I think adding to that might start to make the center channel sound different than the L&R channels which defeats the purpose of this exercise. The double center idea makes most sense to me when you're asking smaller center channel speakers to 'keep up' with larger L&R speakers. If they're all already equal, I am not sure what you'd gain by adding another speaker.


Dan
On-Wall M5HP LCR, QS8 & EP500 in 7.1
Re: QS8s vs. ERD-1 vs. FXi A4 vs. ADP-590
cb919 #345164 04/15/11 07:06 PM
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A lot of pain in calibrating? Also extra dough for an extra amp channel.


I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!
Re: QS8s vs. ERD-1 vs. FXi A4 vs. ADP-590
Ken.C #345179 04/15/11 09:08 PM
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I also think it's overkill. If you can accommodate 3 M80s across the front, that would be the way to go and I see no point in even considering the VP180. The VP180 is meant for those of us that can't accommodate a M80 as a center and is an attempt to make a horizontal speaker sound as good as the M80 (and a success IMO). It is nevertheless a horizontal speaker and therefore, even though its off-axis is good, it will never be as good as the M80. I think you'll be very happy with either setup and no extra center would be needed.

Last edited by bdpf; 04/15/11 09:11 PM.

Bruno
M80s/VP180/QS8s/EP600/AVR-890
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"The problem is choice..."
Re: QS8s vs. ERD-1 vs. FXi A4 vs. ADP-590
bdpf #345187 04/15/11 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted By: Senator

After looking at more comb filtering effect research, I am still leaning toward the upside down T-shape idea with the horizontal VP-180 just below the TV, angled slightly up toward the ear level at the seated position and the vertical M80 above the TV, angled down toward the ear level at the seated viewing position.

First, let me echo the sentiments of those above who say that a dual M80/VP180 configuration is overkill. However, . . . yes there’s always a “however,” if money is no object (i.e. there’s nothing better you can think of to spend the extra money on) then the idea of a dual M80/VP180 configuration has also intrigued me based on extensive listening to both vertical and horizontal center configurations. This is the best configuration I came up with when I lived in an apartment (scroll down for the pictures):

http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=218171&Searchpage=4&Main=15077&Words=%2Bm80+%2Babove&Search=true#Post218171

Here is my present configuration:

http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/ubbthre...true#Post309421

If you want all the details you can read through those threads but here is what I’ve found in a nutshell. 3 identical tower speakers on the same plain across the front are the best for music hands down. Having one of the vertical towers above the screen (as long as the midrange drivers aren’t far apart) creates a nice wall of sound that sounds equally good for both music and movies, but can cause a lead singer and drummer to sound like they are on a dais. Having a horizontal center speaker above the screen creates an even bigger wall of sound effect than a vertical center above the screen which can sound great for movies but smears the front soundstage for well recorded music. A horizontal center speaker below the screen creates a more seamless soundstage for movies though not as big as above than a single or dual (side-by-side) vertical center but causes the same smearing for music. A dual vertical above and horizontal below center creates the biggest soundstage but also suffers from the smearing of music. The best of all worlds that I have found so far is a dual center vertical below (actually on the same plain as the mains) and horizontal above, selectable so the horizontal can be turned off for music and on for movies gives the best of all worlds. . . seamless music and huge front soundstage for movies (very “movie-theater-like”).

The only reason I haven’t purchased a VP180 for above my screen yet is that I have other additions which I think will add more to the mix and the fact that I will need to beef up the circuits feeding my AV room because they are already stretched to the limit with what I’ve got.

So yes it is overkill. You may find an extra subwoofer, Buttkicker, midbass module, curtains, or any number of other things would be a better use of the money but if you want what is IMO the ideal setup, especially if you have a large screen then dual vertical under horizontal over selectable for vertical only or both is the best of all worlds.


3M80 2M22 6QS8 2M2 1EP500 Sony BDP-S590 Panny-7000 Onkyo-3007 Carada-134 Xbox Buttkicker AS-EQ1
Re: QS8s vs. ERD-1 vs. FXi A4 vs. ADP-590
tomtuttle #345441 04/19/11 06:22 AM
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Originally Posted By: tomtuttle
Dan's got the answers this week!

It's always a good idea to experiment with placement - including aiming. However, if you're going to mount a big speaker like that above your screen (whether a vertical M80 or a horizontal VP180), be prepared to do some engineering (i.e. shelf with chains or something). Those speakers are too deep and too heavy for traditional wall brackets.


Yeah, it sounds like when it comes to the dual center stage (ideally sometime next fall if all goes well), I will add the third M80 and I will have it on the floor with the front two, then mount the VP 180 above the screen (which should not need much angling, if at all). Until then, I'll keep the VP 180 under the screen.

I heard back from the gentleman who is going to let me audition his Axiom setup, sounds like maybe next week sometime, I'm excited.

Re: QS8s vs. ERD-1 vs. FXi A4 vs. ADP-590
jakewash #345510 04/19/11 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted By: jakewash
I have heard the VP180 and had a CC690 lined up to listen to at a local dealer but unfortunately I couldn't make it down there; I hope to listen to one in the next couple of weeks.


If you do get a chance to hear those two head to head, please post your thoughts, I would love to hear them.

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