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So I found out if I listen to Motley Crue at 0db (volume level on my yamaha) that my Outlaw M2200 monoblocks over heat and go into protect within about 15 minutes. I guess I am going to have to upgrade to three Emotiva XPA1s to push my M80s and M180 for those times when I want to rock out

Larry, the M2200s easily drive M80s to beyond safe listening levels. Have you measured the actual sound levels with an SPL meter when this occurs? 0dB on the receiver being used as a pre-pro doesn't answer the question.

There have been occasions in the past when an intermittent short in the wiring caused a shut-down, rather than overheating, so this should be carefully re-done.

Also, if in fact there was overheating at less than excessively loud and prolonged use, it would indicate that the M2200s aren't being given adequate space for ventilation.

There should be no need for additional amplification.

I am suprised by this as well, have you consulted the Outlaw forum? I don't have a bit of problem with my Outlaw 7700.

Hi lleeds,

JohnK and SirQuack are on the money on this one. It's the first report I've heard of Outlaws shutting down, so I'm fairly sure it's a ventilation problem or perhaps an intermittent short in the speaker wire connections.

On the other hand, the M80s will handle huge amounts of clean power and I have had personal experience at an Axiom party of two of five 350-watt monoblocs shutting down at what I consider were absurdly loud levels. (I was wearing ear plugs and was out on the deck. .)

If you find that ventilation or speaker wire shorts aren't at issue in your system, I'd consider other brands besides Emotiva, since some models of those have had shut-down problems. Look at Parasound, Anthem, and Bryston as well.

Also, regarding the "0-dB" level on your preamp, depending on the voltage output of your preamp at that level, it's quite possible you were already overdriving the Outlaws into clipping, which would shut them down.

Regards,
Alan

Also if you have your crossover points on the VP180 and M80's set below 80hz or to the LARGE setting, try them at 80hz each to see if that will make any difference. Dips at and below 4 ohms and at frequencies below 100hz is the most current demanding for an amplifier. Especially in instances where the speakers are being played at reference volumes which you are doing.

another valid point.

Yes, good point, BlueJays1. Thanks.

I don't think the M2200's have enough cooling to properly power a 4 ohm speaker. looking at the photos, powering a 4 ohm speaker at a high volume requires a considerable amount of power, in the form of current.. if you like to listen to your music at a high volume, you will have to pay to play.. You might be able to modify the outlaw amps with some aluminum heat sinks, if you can dissipate enough heat from the unit it might be able to provide the power you are looking for.

many people have 3-4+ of them stacked with no problems, that is one of the benefits of the design.

Yes, but the feet do not appear to be very high, which like others have said, will greatly reduce any thermal convection though the amp to cool it.. If you are not requiring a lot of the amp then that is ok, however if you are trying to operate close to 10/10th's then it looks like the design will not be able to provide max power for a prolonged period of time.

Note that the M2200 carries an "official" rating at 4 ohms of 300 watts. This means that under FTC regs it was tested at the full 300 watt level into 4 ohms for a continuous period of at least five minutes, a severe lab test that would never be duplicated in home use. There's no problem with the design of the M2200 and if used correctly, again, it can easily power M80s to beyond safe levels.

John, if this was the case then the OP would not be having issues with his amps shutting down after 15 min...

I am not saying that the amps do not put out the power that they are advertised to do so... just that for a longer duration they do not have the cooling capacity to maintain that output... the OP is hitting the performance wall of these amps, which is why i was recommending finding a better cooling option if he wanted to keep his amps instead of buying different amps..

HomeTheaterCooling.com have some really nice cooling fans, I bought two for my Onkyo amp,prepro and they work very good.

I will get out the spl meter and see what level I am damaging my ears. And check out the fans. There definitely isn't much space the way they are stacked now, I don't ever listen at that level for more than a cd but it does sound pretty awesome. I have to check if the fronts are set to large. I was experimenting with the setup, the sub is behind my chair and seemed to blend better if the mains/center were set to large but I am not positive that is what I ended up with.

Dakkon I was looking at your picture, are you into Bujinkan or anything like that?

I think he is into Star Wars. That picture brings to mind of a viral video that was around years ago.

No no, Like BlueJays1 said, that is a img from the Star wars kid video clip from many years ago..

Honestly, i don't even know what Bujinkan is, i had to google it.


Not into Star Wars either, just though it was an interesting video/image..

Yeah, that video was hilarious.

I checked with the SPL meter and Motley Crue Dr. Feelgood was right around 108db when the Yamaha was set at 0db. I think I may have even pushed it up to the +3db that night when everything got too hot, happened once when I listened to Boston 3rd Stage about the same level, got about 4/5 through the CD and one of the amps shut down. I also checked and I have the mains and center set to Large.

I have been having trouble getting into the forum, are they having website troubles of late?

nope. you are having interweb problems man!...


you have to keep in mind how much power it requires to play at a higher volume... every 3db doubles the amount of power...

I was having issues with my old 5 channel amp being driven into the clipping region on a couple channels. My old amp was a Marantz mm9000, rated for 135W at 8 ohms at the time i had 2 m60's and a vp-150.. I don't know what spl i was at, but it was pretty loud when some of the channels were being driven into the clipping region.

Larry, it's your hearing and your decision, of course, but I'd never listen at that level. If that measurement was a continuous level rather than just a split-second peak, it's well into the area where permanent damage can take place. Examine this table showing recommended limits from the EPA and World Health Organization on exposure levels(in minutes)for non-occupational environments. The less stringent numbers in the first two lines are for exposure at work, where it's considered(by some)that some long-term loss is acceptable.

My own practice when I'm listening "loud"(more commonly it's about 10dB lower)is to be around 80-85dB average, with a split-second peak on even the recordings with the widest dynamic range hitting no more than about 20dB higher in the 100-105dB area.

Set your M80's and VP180 both to small and an 80hz crossover in your pre-amp settings and repeat those same conditions and volumes. You are taxing your amplifier at those volumes. This will take some stress off them. I'm curious to see if those amps will still shut down under those same conditions with these changes.

It may not make that huge of a difference, between 100-300hz, the M80's are below 4ohms.. it will help at the bottom end, where the impedance drops to almost 2 ohms though. lleeds did not say if he has a sub or not.. If he does not have a sub, he may not want to cross over at 80hz.. if the music he is listening to has a substantial amount of material below 50hz, then crossing over at 80hz, will help. However, the 100-300hz range will still stress the amps.

I would be interested in the results of Bluejays recommendation as well.

Your totally correct. Impedance dips in the 100hz-300hz will stress amps especially at rock concert levels like we are seeing here. Frequencies at and below 100hz are the most demanding on the amp and can quickly put it into current limiting with the right material. It will add greater power demands and more heat generation running them large...it might not make any difference, it may make a difference or it just might take a little longer before they shut down raising the crossover point....

If you don't have a sub still try an 80hz crossover point and repeat the same conditions. Don't worry how it sounds. This is just a test to find out how the amps behave with the speakers when you change the settings.