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#363080 - 01/08/12 11:39 AM Minimum power for M22/VP100?
Cork Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/19/10
Posts: 76
Loc: Pennsylvania, US
I'm thinking about getting a Marantz NR-1602 as a replacement for my older Onkyo SR-504. The Onkyo is nice enough but it doesn't have HDMI connections, doesn't retain speaker setting across power off (really irks me as I'm sitting off-center from the speakers), and most importantly doesn't have network capability ... okay, I'm just a spoiled guy that has a need to upgrade.

The 1602 seems like a perfect match for my smaller room (13'x15'), but it is lower powered than most amps these days. I'm not worried about volume, but am concerned about not being able to drive the Axioms sufficiently. I have M22s and a VP100 on the front and some very, very old Advent minis for surrounds.

Any thoughts? (On the power or the choice of the 1602.)

Edit: I knew I forgot something, the 1602 is rated for approximately 30 wpc all 7 channels driven. I'll be using just the 5.


Edited by Cork (01/08/12 11:44 AM)

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#363081 - 01/08/12 11:57 AM Re: Minimum power for M22/VP100? [Re: Cork]
Wid Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/22/03
Posts: 6720
Loc: The Peoples Republic of Il.
That seems a bit low imo. Have you looked at Refurbed units, that might get you a bit more power for your $$$.
_________________________
Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud


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#363084 - 01/08/12 12:29 PM Re: Minimum power for M22/VP100? [Re: Wid]
J. B. Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/19/11
Posts: 1262
Loc: Quebec, Canada
specs say it's 50 W/ch. 20-20K, all channels driven/8 Ohms
those specs are conservative; in use, you'll get more power than that.
you should check reviews about this.
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#363094 - 01/08/12 06:05 PM Re: Minimum power for M22/VP100? [Re: J. B.]
Cork Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/19/10
Posts: 76
Loc: Pennsylvania, US
Thanks for the feedback.

I did check on acc4less, and I can get it for about $150-200 less there. (Although your link put a Cambridge Audio on top, which was pretty interesting.) But I'm not as concerned with power (unless I need it) as much as the collection of features. I'm looking for a network receiver, DLNA certified (and plays FLAC, which is non-standard DLNA), internet radio enabled, video upconversion, optical & coax audio inputs, component video inputs. Getting those features tends to push me into a middle-tier anyway, so I might as well get one that fits my use (I'd love to avoid a large tank).

The power rating I gave was conservative and came from from this well written review:
http://www.techradar.com/reviews/audio-v...eview?artc_pg=1

Power ratings: Watts (8Ω , 0.5% THD)

2-channel 8Ω: 55 Watts
We measured 55W per channel in stereo mode, a
smidgeon over Marantz's spec.

5-channel 8Ω: 30 Watts
The usual drop off in multichannel mode, but 30W
should be fine for many setups.

Untainted: Watts
Marantz NR1602: 35 Watts
Yamaha RX-V367: 79 Watts
Pioneer VSX-920-X: 60 Watts
Onkyo TX-SR308: 40 Watts

Here a corollary question. My first stereo receiver 40 years ago (Pioneer something) was about 25w and I never had a problem. Now we run separate subs and "mom receivers" are pushing 60w. What drove the wattage inflation?

But to my original question, I'm just curious if the M22/VP100 needs that much power. I know they say 10w minimum, but I was looking for some practical real-world opinions.

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#363097 - 01/08/12 07:17 PM Re: Minimum power for M22/VP100? [Re: Cork]
CatBrat Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 5798
Loc: Some random location
From what little experence I've had with AVR's and M22's, I can say you basically get what you pay for. At first, I tried a cheap 100wpc Sony I found off of Newegg for $150. It sounded good, except I wasn't getting any bass. Then I switched to an $800 Pioneer Elite with 110wpc. All I can say is WOW. It made all the difference in the world.



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#363098 - 01/08/12 07:28 PM Re: Minimum power for M22/VP100? [Re: Cork]
Jc Offline
aficionado

Registered: 06/27/06
Posts: 500
Loc: Sherbrooke, QC, Canada
Hi Cork,
Spend as much as you can on power; you will never regret it.
You can have the same rated power output from different brands but the true power can be quite different from one to the other. That is why brands like NAD, Cambridge, Rotel and Harmon Kardon even when they show specs with less power the reality is that they are more powerful than most brands showing much more power.
The Axiom M22 can be pushed so don't be afraid to feed them with a lot of power.
_________________________
jc
Axiom Audio Expert / jc@axiomaudio.com
Recrutement d'Intégrateurs/Installateurs professionnels Québec

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#363104 - 01/08/12 08:56 PM Re: Minimum power for M22/VP100? [Re: Jc]
Lampshade Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 11/08/05
Posts: 1161
Loc: Holbrook, MA
More Power! I love you, JC. smile
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M80 and Pioneer SC 55

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#363107 - 01/08/12 09:07 PM Re: Minimum power for M22/VP100? [Re: Cork]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10361
Cork, as always it depends on the loudness levels involved, the sensitivity of the speakers and the listening distance. You've made a non-sequitur by saying that you're not worried about volume, but being able to drive the Axioms "sufficiently". The two are the same.

The 1602 at typical listening distances around 10 feet can use about 50 watts to drive the M22s at peaks of 102-103dB. If this is sufficient for you(and it probably should be if you value your hearing), the 1602 would be a good buy(especially the A4L deal)and there's no purpose in buying unused amplifier power.
_________________________
-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#363115 - 01/08/12 10:28 PM Re: Minimum power for M22/VP100? [Re: JohnK]
SBrown Offline
aficionado

Registered: 11/16/10
Posts: 812
Loc: Victoria,BC
You mean, those sound as good as they look Chris. Beauty!
_________________________
Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder.

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#363116 - 01/08/12 10:32 PM Re: Minimum power for M22/VP100? [Re: SBrown]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10398
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
I just set up my parents with a Denon 1312 runing my old M22s and VP100 and it seems to be working just fine, but as JC said buy the biggest and badest AVR you can afford, you won't regret it.
_________________________
Jason
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