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#363326 - 01/10/12 07:50 PM Re: Myths & Facts About Crossovers [Re: tomtuttle]
RickF Offline
axiomite

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 5210
Loc: Vero Beach, Florida
A 50' by 25' room and this guy is bitching because a pair of M60s can't handle insane loud levels?

Give me a break.
_________________________
Rick
Our Room

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#363327 - 01/10/12 07:50 PM Re: Myths & Facts About Crossovers [Re: JBall]
Ian Offline
President
aficionado

Registered: 03/13/01
Posts: 811

JBall,

The strains of a good party are the best test for an audio system. I like to test that way myself from time to time - as often as possible really. The 5.25” moving in and out rapidly is fine as this component is in fact a woofer and not a conventional mid-range driver. With the power you have in your amps and the levels you are going to want for a party in a room that size I would say you have reached the limits of the M60 in its entirety. The tweeter will also be going into heavy compression at these levels. Given the amplification you have available and the need for party detail you really should consider using the M80s. They would be a much better model for your application and a fine match with your existing M60s.
_________________________
Ian Colquhoun
President & Chief Engineer

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#363328 - 01/10/12 07:53 PM Re: Myths & Facts About Crossovers [Re: RickF]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17809
Loc: NoVA
Originally Posted By: RickF
A 50' by 25' room and this guy is bitching because a pair of M60s can't handle insane loud levels?

Give me a break.


QFT.
_________________________
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!

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#363338 - 01/10/12 09:39 PM Re: Myths & Facts About Crossovers [Re: Ian]
JBall Offline
veteran

Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 141
Originally Posted By: Ian

JBall,

The strains of a good party are the best test for an audio system. I like to test that way myself from time to time - as often as possible really. The 5.25” moving in and out rapidly is fine as this component is in fact a woofer and not a conventional mid-range driver. With the power you have in your amps and the levels you are going to want for a party in a room that size I would say you have reached the limits of the M60 in its entirety. The tweeter will also be going into heavy compression at these levels. Given the amplification you have available and the need for party detail you really should consider using the M80s. They would be a much better model for your application and a fine match with your existing M60s.


Thanks Ian, I will consider that option. For what its worth, I originally discovered Axiom thru Audioholics which you guys sadly now seem to be in a bloodsport with.

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#363339 - 01/10/12 09:41 PM Re: Myths & Facts About Crossovers [Re: RickF]
JBall Offline
veteran

Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 141
Originally Posted By: RickF
A 50' by 25' room and this guy is bitching because a pair of M60s can't handle insane loud levels?

Give me a break.


Yes to be honest, I am a bit disappointed b/c the prior speakers I owned (Cerwin Vega D-9s) never had this problem. Of course at moderate levels I find the Axioms to be far more refined so I understand the tradeoff.

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#363341 - 01/10/12 09:50 PM Re: Myths & Facts About Crossovers [Re: JBall]
J. B. Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/19/11
Posts: 1274
Loc: Quebec, Canada
the first time i auditioned Cerwin Vega's was around 1984; they were big boom boxes and they still seem to be the same kind.

one has the choice:
Cerwin Vega's for the bang, or
Axiom M80's for music.

if i was you, with a room that size and loud levels, i would get M80's. they'll take twice the power of the M60's, this way, the music will sound much better.

it would be interesting to know what dB levels you get.
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or: Axiom Gallery

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#363343 - 01/10/12 09:59 PM Re: Myths & Facts About Crossovers [Re: Ian]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10412
Ian, thanks for the test results and also for again making the point that "Lots of things are measurable but not audible".

The measurements are consistent with the mid-woofer rolling off below about 150Hz at 12dB/octave. As you indicate, it's in "its own very small enclosure inside the M60 cabinet". In effect it's a sealed speaker and as such would be expected to roll off at 12dB/octave below the tuned frequency even in the absence of a separate high-pass filter(which some critics appear not to have noticed). Without the Theile-Small parameters this can't be calculated precisely, but with a driver Fs of around 60Hz being sealed in a sub-enclosure of possibly 6"x6"x4" these are the sort of results that would be expected. Congratulations on a design which achieves fine audible results in the real world, while also being cost-effective.
_________________________
-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#363349 - 01/10/12 11:37 PM Re: Myths & Facts About Crossovers [Re: J. B.]
JBall Offline
veteran

Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 141
Originally Posted By: J. B.
the first time i auditioned Cerwin Vega's was around 1984; they were big boom boxes and they still seem to be the same kind.

one has the choice:
Cerwin Vega's for the bang, or
Axiom M80's for music.

if i was you, with a room that size and loud levels, i would get M80's. they'll take twice the power of the M60's, this way, the music will sound much better.

it would be interesting to know what dB levels you get.


Agreed man did the tweeters suck in my Vega's after I got me some Axioms. I do miss the red woofer surrounds though

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#363524 - 01/12/12 12:35 PM Re: Myths & Facts About Crossovers [Re: Ian]
agarwalro Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 11/30/05
Posts: 33
Loc: Central PA
Originally Posted By: Ian
On the one hand Gene and I have had a longstanding and generally fun -- ok very fun -- and respectful relationship as a magazine/manufacturer.
Originally Posted By: Gene@Audioholics Forum
Ian/Amie have shown me a great time in the past and they've given this site a lot of support which I will forever be in their debt.

Aren't you guys letting a difference of opinion (blown way out of proportion by the Internet Forums, the geek's People/Sun/Entertainment Tonight) create a rift in what seems to be a great friendship and that both parties are unhappy about losing.

See the big picture! Agree to disagree. Agree to not see eye to eye on measurements/business models/crossover design, but please don't lose the friendship that you seemed to cherish at one time.


Edited by agarwalro (01/12/12 12:35 PM)
_________________________
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PS3, SGT 10.1, Sansa Clip
Auralex

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#363561 - 01/12/12 05:12 PM Re: Myths & Facts About Crossovers [Re: agarwalro]
chesseroo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 4849
Loc: western canada
I think that just about covers that (again).


I do have to agree with Agar.
Sounds like Ian laments the loss of a fun relationship (perhaps once termed a 'bromance'), but extending an olive branch can bring it back around again.
Pick up a phone and rekindle the love Ian, rekindle the love! (don't let Amie read this)
wink
_________________________
"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."

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