Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 1 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6
VP-180 Soundstage
#363944 01/17/12 06:03 AM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 75
G
old hand
OP Offline
old hand
G
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 75
Havent been around in a long time seeing as parenthood is a fulltime job. But popping by to see whats new I noticed the VP-180. I am looking to upgrade my center channel from my current VP-150 as it doesnt seem to really fill the front stage unless the volume is cranked. I am close to biting the bullet and buying the Klipsch RC-64ii ($750 which is half price) until i saw the VP - 180. Any word from 180 owners on the fullness and depth of the soundstage ? I have yet to hear another center that can touch the Klipsch in that regard. And the version 2 Klipschs arent as bright and fatiguing as the previous ones. Thanks again for your input guys.


Sanyo Z5 HD Projector w/100" screen
Yamaha RXV-663,BD30,HD-A30
Toshiba 55SV670U
M60s
VP150
QS8s
Re: VP-180 Soundstage
ghost271 #363946 01/17/12 07:11 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,863
connoisseur
Offline
connoisseur
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,863
I have M60ti's, and use to have a VP-150.. I always thought the 150 was undersized... well, in my opinion it is!... I got a 180 when they first came out... it is kind of like going from a 3 cylinder ugo, to a supercharged corvette... there is almost no comparison between the two speakers... The 180 fits in perfect with my M60's... Often times when i had the 150 i would not listen to music in multi-channel mode, due to the 150 being so much smaller than the M60's, hence making the listening environment not ideal. With the VP-180 i listen to music in Multi-channel mode now, the 180 integrates seamlessly between the M60's and has absolutely no problem keeping up with them in sound output, and sound stage...

Like yourself, i had been wanting a larger center channel for Many years... So when the 180 was introduced i did not hesitate to order one immediately.

Re: VP-180 Soundstage
ghost271 #363947 01/17/12 07:21 AM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,654
shareholder in the making
Offline
shareholder in the making
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,654
Joel, I'd suggest that you consider the new VP160(if you want a center in horizontal form)which employs a W T/M W configuration. At this time Jason(jakewash)has the only one which has been released and you might take a look at his enthusiastic review of a few days ago.


-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.


Re: VP-180 Soundstage
JohnK #363949 01/17/12 07:26 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,863
connoisseur
Offline
connoisseur
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,863
John, i think if the 160 and the 180 had came out at the exact same time.. I think i would still go for the 180... But the 160 is designed to match the M60's... even 160 would be a BIG step up from the 150 i would imagine..

Re: VP-180 Soundstage
dakkon #363953 01/17/12 01:16 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 18,044
shareholder in the making
Offline
shareholder in the making
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 18,044
I'd love to see a back to back of the 180 and the 160. I'd also love to see the horizontally laid out 180 beat the pants off the 160, just so I can stop hearing about goddamn W T/M W configs being the end all be all. We'll see.

Last edited by Ken.C; 01/17/12 01:20 PM.

I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!
Re: VP-180 Soundstage
Ken.C #363955 01/17/12 01:25 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,210
axiomite
Offline
axiomite
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,210
QFT


Rick
Our Room

smile
Re: VP-180 Soundstage
RickF #363958 01/17/12 02:13 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,833
W
Wid Offline
axiomite
Offline
axiomite
W
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,833
The 180 came out long before the 160. I waited till there was the highly prized W T/M W configuration before ordering a new center speaker, the 160. grin


Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud

Re: VP-180 Soundstage
Wid #363959 01/17/12 02:22 PM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,343
connoisseur
Offline
connoisseur
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,343
obviously biggest isn't always the best cool grin


getting to 2,000 posts; one year at a time vp160/qs8/qs4/ep350/m60/m2200s
Re: VP-180 Soundstage
dakkon #363960 01/17/12 02:33 PM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,116
connoisseur
Offline
connoisseur
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,116
Originally Posted By: dakkon
John, i think if the 160 and the 180 had came out at the exact same time.. I think i would still go for the 180... But the 160 is designed to match the M60's... even 160 would be a BIG step up from the 150 i would imagine..


In terms of minimizing driver lobing, yes the VP160 will be a lot better than the VP180 as a horizontal speaker. It's just the nature of the driver complement. At the same time the VP180 will have greater bass extension over the VP160 when crossed lower, capable of greater dynamics, playing louder when needed with an appropriate amp ect.

For a proper comparison you would have to listen to these center channels in multiple seating positions around the room like Jakewash did, not just in the sweet spot.



I’m armed and I’m drinking. You don’t want to listen to advice from me, amigo.

-Max Payne
Re: VP-180 Soundstage
BlueJays1 #363968 01/17/12 03:19 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 75
G
old hand
OP Offline
old hand
G
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 75
I owned an RC-62 before and the two 6.5" woofers added so much depth to the front that everything else i have listened to kinda disapoints. The RC-64 has four of those ! The new crossovers and tweeters in the Ver.2 Refference series have made the horns less shrill and i noticed no fatigue like before. The other thing i liked about the horn tech, is how it picks out the tiniest details of sound during movies; something my 150 doesnt do that great at lower volumes. Dont get me wrong. I love my setup for music and concert Blurays, but it is really lacking that 'Humph!' when it comes to movies.
Am i correct in assuming that its the large woofers on the Klipsch that fill that front soundstage ? I have a 10" Energy sub at the front and my M60s are set to 'small' with the crossovers set to 80. Ideally i think i should have gone with M80s but will get those when I get a bigger room.


Sanyo Z5 HD Projector w/100" screen
Yamaha RXV-663,BD30,HD-A30
Toshiba 55SV670U
M60s
VP150
QS8s
Re: VP-180 Soundstage
ghost271 #363996 01/17/12 06:40 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 8,488
T
axiomite
Offline
axiomite
T
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 8,488
I have my M60's set to large, and think it provides a noticeable improvement. Also, I'm not sure that (depending on the size of your room) a 10" sub is adequate.

At any rate, I wouldn't hesitate to audition the VP160 or VP180, as the praise from former VP150 owners has been universal.


bibere usque ad hilaritatem
Re: VP-180 Soundstage
tomtuttle #364014 01/17/12 07:47 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,422
axiomite
Offline
axiomite
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,422
Originally Posted By: tomtuttle
Also, I'm not sure that (depending on the size of your room) a 10" sub is adequate.



Is one ever enough? I mean, I just bought the guts (read:the expensive parts) to build a second 12" sub for my theater. I do like bass, but I am going to uniformity of sound.

You are right though. I've heard some good bass coming out of a single 10" (less than ideal brand/model) subwoofer at my in-laws. It fit their bill and works well for their space.


Farewell - June 4, 2020
Re: VP-180 Soundstage
nickbuol #364032 01/17/12 09:50 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 75
G
old hand
OP Offline
old hand
G
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 75
Ok. I reset my LFP to about 80-90hz and set the M60's to Large. The room now shakes like a an earthquakes hit. I got to tweak it just a bit more so its not so Boomy. I think i may be better served picking up the 160 or 180 and a 12" Sub. The dialogue is clean and crisp from the 150 but isnt forward enough imho. Can you guys please elaborate and the driver positioning between the 160 & 180 and which is better. Why after so much research on the 180 did they change it up on the 160?


Sanyo Z5 HD Projector w/100" screen
Yamaha RXV-663,BD30,HD-A30
Toshiba 55SV670U
M60s
VP150
QS8s
Re: VP-180 Soundstage
ghost271 #364035 01/17/12 10:41 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,863
connoisseur
Offline
connoisseur
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,863
i think the main reason was number of drivers. the 180 has the same drivers that the M80 has, and the 160 has the same drivers the M60's have. there is a 160 thread in the "what's new at axiom" forum. All of the answers to your questions should be in that tread.

Re: VP-180 Soundstage
dakkon #364036 01/17/12 10:49 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 8,488
T
axiomite
Offline
axiomite
T
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 8,488
They didn't "change" it; they added another model. The VP180 "matches" the driver compliment of the M80's and the VP160 has the same drivers as the M60's.

The cabinet for the VP180 is quite a bit larger, and it has an extra midrange and an extra tweeter. These factors should allow it to play somewhat lower and somewhat louder.

I'm betting that Axiom would say that the VP180 is the "flagship" center channel speaker.


bibere usque ad hilaritatem
Re: VP-180 Soundstage
tomtuttle #364037 01/18/12 12:22 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 18,044
shareholder in the making
Offline
shareholder in the making
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 18,044
I believe the words were "no compromises."


I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!
Re: VP-180 Soundstage
Ken.C #364038 01/18/12 12:38 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,422
axiomite
Offline
axiomite
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,422
I was thinking that Ghost was asking the same question that you guys did. The old "why come out with a VP160 when a VP180 exists" type of thing. And I almost answered it the same way as the # and type of drivers, etc. I think that Ghost *might* be asking why the design difference with the VP180 having all of the drivers in-line with each other, and the VP160 with the over/under type deal in the middle.


Farewell - June 4, 2020
Re: VP-180 Soundstage
nickbuol #364039 01/18/12 12:40 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,833
W
Wid Offline
axiomite
Offline
axiomite
W
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,833

That was what I thought too.


Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud

Re: VP-180 Soundstage
Wid #364040 01/18/12 12:42 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,210
axiomite
Offline
axiomite
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,210
Yea.


Me too.


Rick
Our Room

smile
Re: VP-180 Soundstage
RickF #364041 01/18/12 12:57 AM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 75
G
old hand
OP Offline
old hand
G
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 75
Thanks Nick. Yes thats what i was asking about. Why the different placement of the drivers in different models. I'm no sound engineer, and I have no idea why the tweeters, mids, and woofers are placed the way they are in a cabinet. I had assumed that with the VP-180 they had engineered the 'Ultimate' center channel, but then came out with a smaller Vp-160 model. When I first bought my 150 a few years ago,it was recommended that it be paired with the M60/80's so I thought it was the be all end all of center channel engineering for the Axiom line. Of course there is always going to be R&D and things change. By the reviews on the VP-180, there sounds like there is a definite change in the sound compared to the VP-150. So much so that I think I'll more than likely bite the bullet and buy it over the Klipsch RF-64ii. So naturally when I heard that they were coming out with the 160, I wanted to know why the over/under configuration as opposed to the inline placement like the others. After reading 20 pages over at the VP-160 thread (my eyes are drying out) it seems different people have different opinions about how the drivers should be placed and I just wanted to know Axioms taking this approach and how it affects the sound.


Sanyo Z5 HD Projector w/100" screen
Yamaha RXV-663,BD30,HD-A30
Toshiba 55SV670U
M60s
VP150
QS8s
Re: VP-180 Soundstage
ghost271 #364042 01/18/12 01:00 AM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 6,015
axiomite
Offline
axiomite
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 6,015
I'm glad they came out with the smaller cabinet VP160. The VP180 is way too big for a placement option for me. The VP160 is just about perfect size. Going to be a definate improvement over the VP150.

Re: VP-180 Soundstage
ghost271 #364043 01/18/12 01:03 AM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 75
G
old hand
OP Offline
old hand
G
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 75
I also read a post from Alan where he said (generally speaking) that regardless of what speakers you get from the Axiom line, they will all compliment each other. Which makes me feel secure in buying the VP-180 even though I only have the M60s. When we get a bigger room, I'll upgrade the fronts to the M-80s, and use my M60s, and VP-150 for the bedroom or living room setup.


Sanyo Z5 HD Projector w/100" screen
Yamaha RXV-663,BD30,HD-A30
Toshiba 55SV670U
M60s
VP150
QS8s
Re: VP-180 Soundstage
ghost271 #364044 01/18/12 01:20 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,210
axiomite
Offline
axiomite
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,210
Ghost I believe once you listen to the VP180 you'll feel very secure with your addition.

Trust me.

I'm quite sure the VP160 will give folks the same secure feeling.


Rick
Our Room

smile
Re: VP-180 Soundstage
RickF #364047 01/18/12 02:42 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,863
connoisseur
Offline
connoisseur
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,863
Ghost, i have M60's as previously stated, my family room is about 18'X17' which opens up to the kitchen, as well as the living room...The M60's can fill a very large space, with a correct size center channel. When you get your 180, i think you will see what i am talking about.

Re: VP-180 Soundstage
dakkon #364050 01/18/12 02:52 AM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 75
G
old hand
OP Offline
old hand
G
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 75
Thank you guys. If we stay in our current townhouse for the long run,I'll move the projector and HT gear upstairs and install a powered screen.The upstairs is all open concept so need to be able to fill a large area like you described dakkon.
Will my reciever be able to power my current setup with the VP-180 ? Here are the specs http://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio-vis...__u/?mode=model


Sanyo Z5 HD Projector w/100" screen
Yamaha RXV-663,BD30,HD-A30
Toshiba 55SV670U
M60s
VP150
QS8s
Re: VP-180 Soundstage
ghost271 #364056 01/18/12 04:13 AM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,654
shareholder in the making
Offline
shareholder in the making
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,654
Joel, the entire area doesn't have to be "filled" with sound at the level you want at your listening location. The point is to have an adequate listening level at the distance(e.g., typically 10' or so)where you are. Your 663 with a 95 watt rating should have no problem powering the VP180(it's actually slightly more sensitive than the M60s and VP150)to the levels needed.


-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.


Re: VP-180 Soundstage
JohnK #364059 01/18/12 05:15 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,863
connoisseur
Offline
connoisseur
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,863
Joel, i am going to have to "possibly" disagree with John here...

I previously had a Marantz MM9000 powering my M60's ect, and with the large space i have, i was driving that amp into clipping during movies... So i bought more power. The "will i have enough power" question is a very relative question... As John pointed out, you may very well have enough power. However, you may not... it depends on how loud you are wanting to play your speakers, do you want to be able to hear them upstairs? If so, how loud. As John said, from 10Ft away, you "should" have enough power... I sit 13Ft away from my speakers, and the 135W that the MM9000 is rated for was not enough for movie viewing, i was driving the amp into clipping on several channels...

This power question is something that me and John have pretty much polar opposite opinions on... :~)

Re: VP-180 Soundstage
RickF #364064 01/18/12 06:00 AM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 75
G
old hand
OP Offline
old hand
G
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 75
I appreciate both of your opinions and i think both viewpoints are valid. My viewing distance currently i think is 12'. With the VP-150 i need to crank the volume up pretty high which is why i was so concerned with the VP-180s soundstage. If i need to crank it as loud as i currently am, Im afraid i'd start clipping the speakers. And if i moved it upstairs and upgraded to the M80s i think i'd be in trouble. This train of thought had me looking into the Emotiva amps and pre-amps for future upgrades.


Sanyo Z5 HD Projector w/100" screen
Yamaha RXV-663,BD30,HD-A30
Toshiba 55SV670U
M60s
VP150
QS8s
Re: VP-180 Soundstage
ghost271 #364077 01/18/12 01:08 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 7
L
regular
Offline
regular
L
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 7
ghost, just my two cents. If it's a question of power you might want to think about auditioning an Outlaw amplifier. I run M80's and a VP-180 as well as surrounds with an Outlaw, but I purchased the large one. 300x7. They have alot of options and their amps are rated at 8 and 4 ohms. All of their amps to my knowledge are rated with all channels driven. I've had very good luck with them.

Re: VP-180 Soundstage
ghost271 #364091 01/18/12 03:58 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 504
N
aficionado
Offline
aficionado
N
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 504
Originally Posted By: ghost271
Thanks Nick. Yes that's what i was asking about. Why the different placement of the drivers in different models. I'm no sound engineer, and I have no idea why the tweeters, mids, and woofers are placed the way they are in a cabinet. I had assumed that with the VP-180 they had engineered the 'Ultimate' center channel, but then came out with a smaller Vp-160 model. When I first bought my 150 a few years ago,it was recommended that it be paired with the M60/80's so I thought it was the be all end all of center channel engineering for the Axiom line. Of course there is always going to be R&D and things change. By the reviews on the VP-180, there sounds like there is a definite change in the sound compared to the VP-150. So much so that I think I'll more than likely bite the bullet and buy it over the Klipsch RF-64ii. So naturally when I heard that they were coming out with the 160, I wanted to know why the over/under configuration as opposed to the inline placement like the others. After reading 20 pages over at the VP-160 thread (my eyes are drying out) it seems different people have different opinions about how the drivers should be placed and I just wanted to know Axioms taking this approach and how it affects the sound.


The number of drivers in the VP160 were made to match the M60's, and they are both supposed to have the same crossover and cabinet volume. But, since there was only one midrange and one tweeter, this gave them the ability to put the tweeter over the midrange which is supposed to give much better off-axis listening. Meaning that it will sound almost the same at an off axis seat in comparison to the center seat.

The VP180 was designed to have the same number of drivers as the M80's, same crossover and cabinet volume. It is not really feasible to put the tweeters over the two midrange drivers in the VP180, since it would be too tall. So, they had to have all of the drivers in a horizontal line (a compromise). Now the VP180 should be a very good match to the M80's sitting right on axis. But, off axis there will be lobing issues where it doesn't sound the same as in the center seat.

I don't think that you can say that one of the centers is the "ultimate" or "flagship" center channel speaker since they are different designs. The VP180 is matched to go with the M80's perfectly (for a horizontally designed speaker) and the VP160 is designed to go with the M60's perfectly (for a horizontally designed speaker). But, as mentioned above the centers will match well with both the M80's and M60's. The VP180 will have more output. The VP160 will do better for seats that are off axis. This is the big point for me. Even though I have M22's right now and will probably eventually upgrade to M80's, I would prefer the VP160, so that off axis seats don't have the lobing issues. So my first upgrade will probably be replacing my VP150 with a VP160.

Re: VP-180 Soundstage
Nick B #364103 01/18/12 04:57 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,877
connoisseur
Offline
connoisseur
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,877
Wait, didn't you just buy the VP180 nick?


-David
Re: VP-180 Soundstage
terzaghi #364111 01/18/12 06:05 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 504
N
aficionado
Offline
aficionado
N
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 504
No I didn't purchase the VP180. I was very close to pulling the trigger when it first came out and there was still the Axiom trade in program (when Axiom got such a mass of people trying to trade them in they went to the auction instead). Anyways, I'm glad that I waited, since I really prefer the VP160 design-wise. I don't have the room right now for the height and depth with my current TV stand, so I'll have to wait until I get a new TV stand. I plan to move in the summer, so I don't want to get a new TV stand right now either. Hopefully within the next year or so, after everything settles down, I can get a VP160 though.

Re: VP-180 Soundstage
Nick B #364116 01/18/12 06:23 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,877
connoisseur
Offline
connoisseur
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,877
Ah, it was the QS8;s you bought from the auction recently then?


-David
Re: VP-180 Soundstage
terzaghi #364121 01/18/12 06:40 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 75
G
old hand
OP Offline
old hand
G
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 75
Thanks for the reply Nick. Thats exactly the answer i was lookig for.


Sanyo Z5 HD Projector w/100" screen
Yamaha RXV-663,BD30,HD-A30
Toshiba 55SV670U
M60s
VP150
QS8s
Re: VP-180 Soundstage
ghost271 #364131 01/18/12 07:32 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,077
Likes: 7
C
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making
Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making
C
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,077
Likes: 7
I guess the only way I'm going to be happy at this point is if I get an M80 as a center channel to go with my M80s. Take that, VP180 and VP160 owners! Too bad it's going to reduce my potential screen size so much. Okay, you still win.

Re: VP-180 Soundstage
ghost271 #364133 01/18/12 07:34 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,877
connoisseur
Offline
connoisseur
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,877
From my personal experience I have noticed zero off axis issues with the VP180. I have listened from the middle of my couch, the left side of the couch, and the right side of the couch.

If there are measurable differences between the slight off axis locations that I have listened from I definitely can not hear them under when viewing normal content. If you went extremely off axis perhaps things would be different but I am not sure. I have not done any critically listening from my far right loveseat. I have watched some TV from this location though and everything sounded OK.

I personally wouldn't worry about any potential off axis sound problems with the vp180.


-David
Re: VP-180 Soundstage
terzaghi #364147 01/18/12 08:20 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 504
N
aficionado
Offline
aficionado
N
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 504
Originally Posted By: terzaghi
Ah, it was the QS8;s you bought from the auction recently then?


No, I bought my QS8's (along with my VP150 and M22's) back in 2006. I'm quite happy with my setup right now, so I haven't upgraded any of my speakers yet. The one thing that I would really like to upgrade though is the VP150, in the near future. This to me seems like the weak link in my current system. I would also like to upgrade Outlaw LFM-1 to a pair of more robust subs (in terms of the ability to reach lower frequencies and amount of output). I'm very happy with my LFM-1, by I want each seat to have similar frequency responses. Since I have to get at least one more sub to do this (to have a pair), I might as well get an exact matching pair and move up one notch over the LFM-1. I guess, my "upgrades" are aimed at having the best audio performance for each seat. Because right now I'm pretty happy with the results in the sweet spot.


Originally Posted By: terzaghi
From my personal experience I have noticed zero off axis issues with the VP180. I have listened from the middle of my couch, the left side of the couch, and the right side of the couch.


Did you have a VP150 prior to the VP180 and notice any off axis issues?

Re: VP-180 Soundstage
Nick B #364154 01/18/12 09:05 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,877
connoisseur
Offline
connoisseur
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,877
I must be thinking of someone else who upgraded through the auction.

I did not notice any issue with the vp150 from the left or right cushion on the couch either. I wasnt that far off axis at those locations and was sitting abpout 12 feet back. From my far most seat (love seat) there were some issues. MY biggest problem with the VP150 was that it couldn't really keep up with my m80's in general.


-David
Re: VP-180 Soundstage
terzaghi #364164 01/18/12 09:48 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,877
connoisseur
Offline
connoisseur
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,877
I think I was confusing you with nickbuol, who I believe bought a vp180 and QS8s from the auction.


-David
Re: VP-180 Soundstage
terzaghi #364167 01/18/12 10:05 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,422
axiomite
Offline
axiomite
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,422
Originally Posted By: terzaghi
I think I was confusing you with nickbuol, who I believe bought a vp180 and QS8s from the auction.


Yup. That'd be me! The "other" Nick B...


Farewell - June 4, 2020
Re: VP-180 Soundstage
Nick B #364182 01/19/12 12:48 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 11,458
shareholder in the making
Offline
shareholder in the making
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 11,458
Originally Posted By: Nick B
Now the VP180 should be a very good match to the M80's sitting right on axis. But, off axis there will be lobing issues where it doesn't sound the same as in the center seat.

Nick (B), I really don't have the energy to get into some kind of big back and forth here, but what makes you convinced that:

A) This is positively the case?

B) Even if there ARE some lobing issues that can be measured, that they can even be heard in real-world use?

I mean, if I'm understanding you correctly, you're saying that all the people that have bought VP180s and spent hours listening to them (and reporting that they are amazing!) are wrong, and that there's a fundamental flaw based upon your first-hand knowledge of audio engineering?


::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::
Re: VP-180 Soundstage
MarkSJohnson #364193 01/19/12 02:33 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 8,488
T
axiomite
Offline
axiomite
T
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 8,488
QFT.


bibere usque ad hilaritatem
Re: VP-180 Soundstage
tomtuttle #364232 01/19/12 06:12 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 10,420
J
shareholder in the making
Offline
shareholder in the making
J
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 10,420
I have NEVER heard this lobing issue we all hear so much about from horizontal centers. My VP100, 150 and the 180 I borrowed for a week all had the same sound on and off axis. However at my off axis positions the sound was not as loud, usually reading a couple DB lower on the 'ol RS meter. The VP160 does not exhibit this SPL reduction in my room at my farthest off axis position.


Jason
M80 v2
VP160 v3
QS8 v2
PB13 Ultra
Denon 3808
Samsung 85" Q70
Re: VP-180 Soundstage
MarkSJohnson #364262 01/19/12 03:40 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 504
N
aficionado
Offline
aficionado
N
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 504
Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson
Originally Posted By: Nick B
Now the VP180 should be a very good match to the M80's sitting right on axis. But, off axis there will be lobing issues where it doesn't sound the same as in the center seat.

Nick (B), I really don't have the energy to get into some kind of big back and forth here, but what makes you convinced that:

A) This is positively the case?

B) Even if there ARE some lobing issues that can be measured, that they can even be heard in real-world use?

I mean, if I'm understanding you correctly, you're saying that all the people that have bought VP180s and spent hours listening to them (and reporting that they are amazing!) are wrong, and that there's a fundamental flaw based upon your first-hand knowledge of audio engineering?


I'm not bashing Axiom or saying that all of the folks who purchased the VP180 are wrong and it is not a very good center channel. All that I am saying is that I have had my VP150 for about 5 years now. If I sit one seat cushion off center, I notice a difference in how the center channel sounds compared to being on axis. It isn't that Axiom did a bad job at all designing the speaker. Having a horizontal center channel is a compromise to begin with. But, I like many other people cannot fit the identical bookshelf or floor-standing speakers in the center channel position, so we have to compromise. I would like to upgrade my VP150 sometime in the near future. When I do, it will most likely be with the VP160, which is supposed to help better with off axis listening from a design standpoint. Alan has mentioned that all of the center channel speakers blend well with all of the Axiom line of speakers. The smaller center channel speakers may have a harder time keeping up with the towers, like many here on the forums have said. One of the biggest differences between the VP160 and VP180 is that the 180 is going to have more output, if people have large rooms and/or like to listen to things very loud. I don't need that extra output. And like I said, I am really upgrading the VP150 to help with off axis listening. The tweeter over midrange design in a center channel is supposed to really help with this issue. So I'll be happy just getting the VP160.

Re: VP-180 Soundstage
Nick B #364293 01/19/12 05:30 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6,379
Likes: 7
axiomite
Offline
axiomite
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6,379
Likes: 7
When the VP180 was first discussed I raised the lobing question, but after looking at the speaker arrangement (frequency range covered vs separation of the pair handling those frequencies) my impression was that the VP180 design (particularly putting the mids side by side) would go a long way to controlling lobing.

You can hear variations in sound with a VP100 when moving from side to side, but so far I have only really experienced that with test tones (where it's pretty obvious) and a couple of songs during guitar solos where the sound was pretty close to a test tone.

IMO having both VP160 and VP180 designs available is great. It would be impractical to implement a W T/M W layout with M80 speaker complement (the speaker would be more or less square) but was practical for M60 complement.

If VP160 and 180 had come out at the same time I probably would have gone with VP160, but mostly because I had been whining for Axiom to make an M60-sized center for so long and the idea of an M80-sized center channel had never occurred to me wink


M60ti, VP180, QS8, M2ti, EP500, PC-Plus 20-39
M5HP, M40ti, Sierra-1
LFR1100 active, ADA1500-4 and -8
Re: VP-180 Soundstage
jakewash #364296 01/19/12 06:29 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,877
connoisseur
Offline
connoisseur
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,877
Originally Posted By: jakewash
I have NEVER heard this lobing issue we all hear so much about from horizontal centers. My VP100, 150 and the 180 I borrowed for a week all had the same sound on and off axis. However at my off axis positions the sound was not as loud, usually reading a couple DB lower on the 'ol RS meter. The VP160 does not exhibit this SPL reduction in my room at my farthest off axis position.


Same experience here Jason with my VP150. I haven't measured the SPL of the 180 at my center position versus off axis but all dialogue is easily heard even from my far right loveseat with the VP180.


-David
Re: VP-180 Soundstage
terzaghi #364298 01/19/12 06:40 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,745
Likes: 17
axiomite
Offline
axiomite
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,745
Likes: 17
Audio hint:
Regardless of the source of audio, produce either by speaker OR by the actual musical instrument, the sound will always change the more a person moves off axis.


"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."
Re: VP-180 Soundstage
chesseroo #364301 01/19/12 07:22 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,422
axiomite
Offline
axiomite
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,422
Originally Posted By: chesseroo
Audio hint:
Regardless of the source of audio, produce either by speaker OR by the actual musical instrument, the sound will always change the more a person moves off axis.


Right on.


Farewell - June 4, 2020
Re: VP-180 Soundstage
chesseroo #364341 01/20/12 02:45 PM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 16,441
shareholder in the making
Offline
shareholder in the making
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 16,441
Originally Posted By: chesseroo
Audio hint:
Regardless of the source of audio, produce either by speaker OR by the actual musical instrument, the sound will always change the more a person moves off axis.

What's the characteristic axis of a stringed instrument like a cello? Does it even have a direction in which most of its acoustic energy is projected?

Re: VP-180 Soundstage
pmbuko #364343 01/20/12 02:48 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 6,015
axiomite
Offline
axiomite
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 6,015
Good point. The only thing I can think of that this would apply to would be horns and amplifiers. Maybe acoustic guitars also, but less so.

Re: VP-180 Soundstage
CatBrat #364348 01/20/12 03:05 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 901
S
aficionado
Offline
aficionado
S
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 901
or a piano?

Re: VP-180 Soundstage
SBrown #364351 01/20/12 03:09 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,422
axiomite
Offline
axiomite
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,422
Or even the human voice.

I said "Right on" above, because the statement was profoundly true, but in my theater environment, I don't want off-axis issues. I want it to sound great where ever you sit, yet still have clarity in the "imaging" of that sound. Sort of like those test discs that have a sound that seems to move not just right speaker to left, but slowly, across the entire front sound stage. I remember having media that I could do that with many years ago and that was with just 2 speakers and not full surround.


Farewell - June 4, 2020
Re: VP-180 Soundstage
nickbuol #364353 01/20/12 03:11 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 18,044
shareholder in the making
Offline
shareholder in the making
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 18,044
When I'm sitting right next to my right M80, it sounds different than when I'm sitting between them. I think there's something wrong with it.


I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!
Re: VP-180 Soundstage
Ken.C #364356 01/20/12 03:14 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 6,015
axiomite
Offline
axiomite
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 6,015
With my speaker setup the way I have it, producing what I call a wall of sound, it sounds good whether your sitting center, or in front of the left or right speaker, or just about anywhere in the room, except near the back wall, where the bass becomes too loud. I haven't really missed the fact that I don't have surround speakers. This 3.1 setup with dual M22's for left and right channel actually sounds that good.

Re: VP-180 Soundstage
Ken.C #364580 01/23/12 05:16 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,703
connoisseur
Offline
connoisseur
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,703
Originally Posted By: Ken.C
When I'm sitting right next to my right M80, it sounds different than when I'm sitting between them. I think there's something wrong with it.


I wish the forum would add a " +1 " or " like " button.

laugh

Page 1 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6

Moderated by  alan, Amie, Andrew, axiomadmin, Brent, Debbie, Ian, Jc 

Link Copied to Clipboard

Need Help Graphic

Forum Statistics
Forums16
Topics24,939
Posts442,452
Members15,615
Most Online2,082
Jan 22nd, 2020
Top Posters
Ken.C 18,044
pmbuko 16,441
SirQuack 13,840
CV 12,077
MarkSJohnson 11,458
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 221 guests, and 0 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newsletter Signup
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4