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#367900 - 02/25/12 08:23 AM Minimum Gauge for M80s / VP180?
justinwacker Offline
frequent flier

Registered: 02/25/12
Posts: 18
Loc: Madison, WI
Hi all.

I've been in the club for a while with my EP500 and QS8s but I've finally decided to ditch my Polk front 3 for Axiom's top front 3. Right now I am using 16 and 14 gauge cable in my system. The 14 is a no name brand, but the 16 is Monster THX cert that I use for surrounds. I'm just wondering if anyone's seen a difference with getting a thicker gauge to run their 4 ohm speakers. I found a few charts online that say a 4 ohm load should be able to run, undistorted, over 16 feet, on 18 gauge wire. But I always like to take a few opinions from the public as well.

I also plan to get your opinion on surround placements. Not just for 5.1 but with the possibility of 7.1 upgrade. I will take some pics and post my room later.

Thanks all,
-Justin
_________________________
Pan TH-50PZ800U
Onkyo TX-SR805
Axiom M80 (2)
Axiom VP180
Axiom QS8 (2)
Axiom EP500
PS3, Harmony One

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#367906 - 02/25/12 10:28 AM Re: Minimum Gauge for M80s / VP180? [Re: justinwacker]
BlueJays1 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 4079
Loc: Porch,enjoying Bombay Sapphire
Personally, I would just get 12 awg wire and not monkey around with 14,16 or 18 awg. Speaker wire can be purchased for so cheap in bulk (see link below).

http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10239

This way you can insure the speaker cable has high conductivity for pretty much all home speaker run applications. Now or for any change in the future.

P.S I'd also recommend getting locking banana plugs.

http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/speaker/index.htm




_________________________
Iím armed and Iím drinking. You donít want to listen to advice from me, amigo.

-Max Payne

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#367908 - 02/25/12 10:33 AM Re: Minimum Gauge for M80s / VP180? [Re: justinwacker]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13337
Loc: Iowa
I used the monoprice 12AWG for all of my speakers, as well as monoprice closed banana plugs, very high quality and a price that is hard to beat.
_________________________
M80s-VP180-QS8s-EP600-2xEP350 Denon3808 Outlaw7700
M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
Audio Nirvana

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#367909 - 02/25/12 10:45 AM Re: Minimum Gauge for M80s / VP180? [Re: justinwacker]
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10899
Loc: Central NH
It should be noted also, FWIW, that Axion's own speaker wire, though more expensive, has been highly praised for it's flexibility.

The Monoprice stuff, though cheaper, can be very stiff.
_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#367910 - 02/25/12 11:10 AM Re: Minimum Gauge for M80s / VP180? [Re: justinwacker]
Wid Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/22/03
Posts: 6720
Loc: The Peoples Republic of Il.

The 14 gauge will be fine for your fronts, no need to buy new wire.
_________________________
Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud


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#367913 - 02/25/12 12:42 PM Re: Minimum Gauge for M80s / VP180? [Re: justinwacker]
dakkon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 1846
Furez FZ102AS Advanced 10AWG 2 Conductor CL3 In-Wall Speaker Cable
http://www.av-outlet.com/en-us/dept_484.html
This is the speaker cable that i have for my M60's/VP180.

Prior to this, i was using a 4 conductor 12 gauge monster cable that retailed for about 2-300$ for a pair (i bought mine off of ebay for much less used)... I like the Furez more. Rick is right, 14gauge will be just fine... For me i got the 10 gauge, because i wanted to buy something :~).... The other nice thing about the Furez product, is that they post all of the technical specifications of their wires.. Most companies do not do that.. Even though the Furez product is rated for in wall use, it is very flexible due to the manufacture using a silicone insulator instead of a ridged plastic.

On a side note, thee was someone on the axiom forum who recently bought some speaker cables from bluejeanscable, and got them to ultrasonically weld the banana plugs on. I could not find the link to the person on this forum. However, here is a link to the process on bluejeans website.
http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/ultrasonic-welding.htm


This is one of the only resistance charts that i could find with the per foot/resistance break down, resistance is usually stated in the 1,000' increments.

http://www.cirris.com/testing/resistance/wire.html

Here is a larger chart, that shows more sizes, it is in the 1000'/ohm scale, so you will need to do a little math to calculate what each of your runs would be.
http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm


One other factor in speaker wire "design" ( i use the term design very loosely) is the capacitance of the insulator used, the lower capacitance the better... I am not going to elaborate much more on that...


The real question is.. How much disposable income do you have? if spending 50-100$ on speaker cable is nothing to you, then i say buy some new speaker cable for your new speakers... If you don't have endless pockets right now, then use what you have, as Rick pointed out it will be fine.

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#367916 - 02/25/12 12:59 PM Re: Minimum Gauge for M80s / VP180? [Re: justinwacker]
BlueJays1 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 4079
Loc: Porch,enjoying Bombay Sapphire
Since your interested in specifications Dakkon, the Blue Jeans Cable 10 specs are:

Inductance: 0.160uH/ft
DC Resistance: 2mohms/ft
Capacitance: 25pF/ft

Unless the speaker cable is using some weird geometry in its construction, wire specs would be helpful. Otherwise knowing just the awg of the wire is more than enough IMO.


_________________________
Iím armed and Iím drinking. You donít want to listen to advice from me, amigo.

-Max Payne

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#367917 - 02/25/12 01:06 PM Re: Minimum Gauge for M80s / VP180? [Re: dakkon]
avjunkee Offline
veteran

Registered: 07/28/10
Posts: 110
Originally Posted By: dakkon
The real question is.. How much disposable income do you have? if spending 50-100$ on speaker cable is nothing to you, then i say buy some new speaker cable for your new speakers... If you don't have endless pockets right now, then use what you have, as Rick pointed out it will be fine.


Couldn't agree more. Also factor in how much trouble it would be to re-run your cables, especially if they're behind finished walls & ceilings. Starting from scratch, or if replacing the cables is not much hassle, I would say just go 12awg and be done with it.
_________________________
M80s, VP180, QS8s, EP800 v3

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#367920 - 02/25/12 01:15 PM Re: Minimum Gauge for M80s / VP180? [Re: justinwacker]
J. B. Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/19/11
Posts: 1271
Loc: Quebec, Canada
for many years i used 9awg wire (i must have been more of an extremist than today); then i switched to 12awg.

i never heard a difference.
_________________________
See:http://www.blu-ray.com/community/gallery.php?member=Gelli
or: Axiom Gallery

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#367921 - 02/25/12 01:22 PM Re: Minimum Gauge for M80s / VP180? [Re: justinwacker]
BlueJays1 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 4079
Loc: Porch,enjoying Bombay Sapphire
The thickest wire I have used is the BJC 10 awg and it just fits into their own locking banana plugs. I doubt there would be many plugs compatible with that wire.

For the hell of it, I've tried running 10 awg bare and it is just a pita getting it into the binding posts on the back of the electronics. I can't imagine going 9 or lower.

I think it would be more of a detriment if you are stuck going bare with that thick of wire because you would be more prone to whiskers shutting down the electronics. Even with the 10 it's also tough getting a tight, secure connection (gets loose over time) going bare wire on the binding posts.
_________________________
Iím armed and Iím drinking. You donít want to listen to advice from me, amigo.

-Max Payne

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