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#374827 - 05/01/12 12:04 AM Re: VP-160 arrived - questions [Re: VoicOfReason]
VoicOfReason Offline
old hand

Registered: 04/19/12
Posts: 78
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
I almost forgot. Here's my next question. I got the VP-160 with the inverse design so it is meant to be placed on the floor. However, if I turn it over for normal heigh use then the tweeter is on the bottom rather than on the top. For now I have a little foam padding under the back so that it points straight (not mounted on floor) but is there any disadvantage to using the tweeter on the bottom setup? My initial thought is that since it is a little higher than the M80's right now that if I did turn it upside down so that it is flat and the tweeter is on the bottom that the tweeter would line up closer with the M80's tweeters. But, then the mid-range and woofer would not. Any thoughts?
_________________________
Epson 8350 * Denon 4311CI * XPA-5 * M80/VP180 * 2 QS8's+M2v3-DSX * SVS PC13-Ultra ** Buttkicker LFE

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#374834 - 05/01/12 12:31 AM Re: VP-160 arrived - questions [Re: VoicOfReason]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10407
The inherently wider dispersion at bass and mid frequencies makes the relative alignment of those drivers less critical than the tweeters.
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#374835 - 05/01/12 01:10 AM Re: VP-160 arrived - questions [Re: VoicOfReason]
dakkon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 1846
My VP-180 is about 3 feet higher than my M60's... So my tweeters are not on the same plane.. My 180 is angled down, even though the tweeters are not on the same plane everything in my system blends quite well...

Doesn't Audyssey make time corrections when configuring all of the speakers, so that all of the sound waves arrive at the mic at the same time? I don't have Audyssey so i have no clue...

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#374836 - 05/01/12 06:23 AM Re: VP-160 arrived - questions [Re: JohnK]
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10942
Loc: Central NH
Originally Posted By: JohnK
Peter, as some of the other replies have indicated, what you describe is exactly the way things should be. The auto-calibration has set the VP-160 at the correct level to blend with the other speakers. If a speaker(or sub)stands out as a separate entity, it hasn't been calibrated correctly and it's too loud.

....or poorly-matched....
_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#374897 - 05/02/12 12:16 AM Re: VP-160 arrived - questions [Re: MarkSJohnson]
VoicOfReason Offline
old hand

Registered: 04/19/12
Posts: 78
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
OK. I got some better interconnects (for other reasons) and re-ran Audyssey calibration. Wow! The VP-160 is starting to sound really good now. The Denon set the center level at +2.5db so it is now sounding just like the VP-150 in terms of being front and center, but it gives a much richer experience. I'm really liking this new center! I need to watch a few more movies with intense action to get a better sense of exactly what I like about it compared to the VP-150.
_________________________
Epson 8350 * Denon 4311CI * XPA-5 * M80/VP180 * 2 QS8's+M2v3-DSX * SVS PC13-Ultra ** Buttkicker LFE

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#374899 - 05/02/12 12:52 AM Re: VP-160 arrived - questions [Re: VoicOfReason]
nickbuol Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/16/04
Posts: 4519
Loc: Marion, IA
When I fired up my VP180 for the first time (upgrade from the VP150 for me), I noticed a LOT more sound, but the vocals were lost. This was without ANY tuning/calibration from my receiver. I still haven't calibrated anything, but I just bumped up the mid/upper frequencies on the receiver for the center, and bam, nice and clear vocals PLUS all of the smooth soundstage between the front speakers and the center that I didn't have before.

I can't wait until I can run Audyssey and see what it does with everything, but I am going to wait until I get my front wall acoustically treated which *might* be this weekend, but that is another story.
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http://ht.buol.us
M60s, VP180, VP150, QS8s, SVS 20-39PCi, HTPC, JVC RS45, Onkyo TX-NR709, Shakers

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#374906 - 05/02/12 08:19 AM Re: VP-160 arrived - questions [Re: nickbuol]
VoicOfReason Offline
old hand

Registered: 04/19/12
Posts: 78
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Originally Posted By: nickbuol
When I fired up my VP180 for the first time (upgrade from the VP150 for me), I noticed a LOT more sound, but the vocals were lost. This was without ANY tuning/calibration from my receiver. I still haven't calibrated anything, but I just bumped up the mid/upper frequencies on the receiver for the center, and bam, nice and clear vocals PLUS all of the smooth soundstage between the front speakers and the center that I didn't have before.

I can't wait until I can run Audyssey and see what it does with everything, but I am going to wait until I get my front wall acoustically treated which *might* be this weekend, but that is another story.



Yeah, I had the same experience with the VP-160 at first. For me, strangely enough, a better interconnect seemed to fix the problem, although when I re-ran Audyssey, it changed the center from +2db to +2.5db. I don't know if that little amount is enough to make the center really stand out now, but if not, then it must have been the new interconnect cable I got (Emotiva RCA X-series). Have you tried something like this?
_________________________
Epson 8350 * Denon 4311CI * XPA-5 * M80/VP180 * 2 QS8's+M2v3-DSX * SVS PC13-Ultra ** Buttkicker LFE

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#374907 - 05/02/12 09:09 AM Re: VP-160 arrived - questions [Re: VoicOfReason]
J. B. Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/19/11
Posts: 1272
Loc: Quebec, Canada
a difference of .5 dB is not easily discernable, it usually is perceived as a difference in the quality of the sound, not so much the loudness.
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or: Axiom Gallery

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#374908 - 05/02/12 09:31 AM Re: VP-160 arrived - questions [Re: J. B.]
alan Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/29/02
Posts: 3191
Loc: Toronto/New York/Dwight
In fact, a difference of 0.5 dB is not detectable as an increase or decrease in loudness. By definition, a 1-dB difference is the smallest difference we hear as an increase or decrease in loudness, and it's hard to hear.

You are quite correct in stating that a 0.5-dB difference is heard as a change in the quality of the sound, not as a volume difference.

Alan
_________________________
Alan Lofft,
Axiom Resident Expert

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#374916 - 05/02/12 12:03 PM Re: VP-160 arrived - questions [Re: alan]
VoicOfReason Offline
old hand

Registered: 04/19/12
Posts: 78
Loc: Northwest Arkansas
Originally Posted By: alan
In fact, a difference of 0.5 dB is not detectable as an increase or decrease in loudness. By definition, a 1-dB difference is the smallest difference we hear as an increase or decrease in loudness, and it's hard to hear.

You are quite correct in stating that a 0.5-dB difference is heard as a change in the quality of the sound, not as a volume difference.

Alan


So it will remain a mystery to me why the new interconnect has improved the VP-160 quality dramatically as well as loudness (or perceived loudness). I was using a sub-standard cable before this. In any case, I'm pretty happy right now.
_________________________
Epson 8350 * Denon 4311CI * XPA-5 * M80/VP180 * 2 QS8's+M2v3-DSX * SVS PC13-Ultra ** Buttkicker LFE

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