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#376583 - 05/18/12 12:45 PM Re: The Vatican Dumpster [Re: Da_Gimp_Pimp]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16267
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
Dude, what's up with your sig?
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"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#376588 - 05/18/12 01:27 PM Re: The Vatican Dumpster [Re: BobKay]
medic8r Offline
axiomite

Registered: 02/05/06
Posts: 6384
Loc: Fredericksburg, Virginia
Cam's a happy guy.
_________________________
"The Universe is the game of the self, which plays hide and seek forever and ever" - Alan Watts

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#376600 - 05/18/12 07:14 PM Re: The Vatican Dumpster [Re: medic8r]
Da_Gimp_Pimp Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 06/23/07
Posts: 4013
Loc: Sitting down somewhere
Originally Posted By: pmbuko
Dude, what's up with your sig?


Originally Posted By: medic8r
Cam's a happy guy.


Yup. Very happy smile.
_________________________
Does a dyslexic atheist not believe in dog?

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#376721 - 05/21/12 10:34 AM Re: The Vatican Dumpster [Re: Da_Gimp_Pimp]
BobKay Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/23/10
Posts: 3126
Loc: Massachusetts Badlands
Originally Posted By: Powertothepeople
Originally Posted By: pmbuko
Dude, what's up with your sig?


Originally Posted By: medic8r
Cam's a happy guy.


Yup. Very happy smile.


Boy, that's sad. Cam's "happy." Can't we do something to help him? An intervention? Something?

Thinking people should never permit "happy." Content, serene, presently pleased, momentarily merry, but not "happy."

Cam's a thinker, for sure. We gotta fix this for him, before it leads to "bliss." JP, suggestions?

"Yup. Very happy," is a cry for help. Don't let it fall on far too discriminating ears.

silence happy = death


Edited by BobKay (05/21/12 10:37 AM)
_________________________
"Ya rolls the dice and ya takes yer chanskes."
Popeye

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#376781 - 05/22/12 08:11 AM Re: The Vatican Dumpster [Re: BobKay]
Murph Offline
axiomite

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 6771
Loc: PEI, Canada
Cool bike Cam.
I'm afraid I'm just a hybrid guy now. Getting old and creaky I guess.
_________________________
With great power comes Awesome irresponsibility.

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#379338 - 06/29/12 09:22 PM Re: The Vatican Dumpster [Re: Murph]
BobKay Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/23/10
Posts: 3126
Loc: Massachusetts Badlands
THE BLACK HOLE IN ROCK and ROLL

I’ve been thinking about this since I was a teenager, but I’ve never put it on paper before, or tried to think it through with some (loose, very loose) historical consideration.

The very first Rock and Roll thing to catch my attention (and I do mean “thing”) was Richard Penniman, a/k/a Little Richard. I was four. From then on, I always thought of him as the King of Rock ‘n’ Roll, not Elvis.

As I got a little older, I noticed that Elvis (and lots of others) never had their names in the tiny print in the parentheses, right under the song title on the record label. Once I learned that those names were the writers of the songs, and that Elvis didn’t, couldn’t do that, everyone’s “proper places” in the Rock and Roll firmament began to become both clearer and more solid to me.

I didn’t know it at the time, but I was relegating Elvis to “song stylist,” which is what he has been to me since I’ve been an adult. Something in me did know that Rock and Roll was supposed to be black, like “those real guys,” Fats Domino, Little Richard and Chuck Berry; that’s where the real creation of R & R was happening. I had to allow for Jerry Lee Lewis, just because, as a 1950’s wildman, he personified the Rock and Roll attitude. I didn’t care what color he was or from what planet he came. He was, to me, the equal of Little Richard. They could both play piano while jumping around on their feet. No one had ever accompanied their music with that much commotion.

The first Rock and Roll dance I ever learned was the twist—Chubby Checker. Every “first” for me in Rock and Roll was introduced by an African-American male.

Well, we all know that stopped---dead---cold. Vocal music by black artists was popular simultaneously; The Platters, The Bluenotes, lots of them were around at the time. For some reason, that music survived and morphed (not a big stretch at all) into the sounds of Motown, Philly and a few places in the Deep South. By the end of 1963, African-Americans had pretty much abandoned Rock and Roll.

Just four years later, he's not only a black guy with an electric guitar, but he is a super rocker, hell bent on pushing it to whatever limits the current electrical grids and fire marshals would allow. Wasn’t that supposed to be the herald reading: “Return, brothers, return!” Guess not. Of course, being the reigning guitar god doesn’t go very far when you and “it” are all over in less than 4 years. And Sly! It may have had lots of soul and mountains of funk, but it was still R & R. Poor Sly, poor us. Maybe he set such a bad example of how to enjoy your R & R fame, that he didn’t amass any followers. It’s tough to think that Jimi Hendrix’s biggest influence was on………… Robin Trower. Too bad we never were offered a vote before Jimi bought the farm.

So for another bunch of years, we had Billy and the Beatles, Dallas and CSN, Buddy Miles here and there after his Electric Flag days were over, and several other notable black musicians in all-white bands.

Then we have a screen blip in The Busboys. Tons of fun. No one paid any attention. What! They can’t play rock and roll! They’re black!

Flash to the eighties and we have In Living Color. Finally, a real band with a real R & R singer who’s not an R & B moonlighter, and a guitarist worthy of at least the attention he got, if not more. That created a good-sized splash, but it didn’t last long. (They reformed several years ago and had an album that was pretty unremarkable.)

From the ‘90’s through to the present, we have King’s X from Houston. Their bass/singer/writer (it’s a 3 piece) is African-American. I’ve never met another person who has ever heard of them. I have everything by them. Is it all very good? No, not all, but it’s a different sounding Rock and Roll because of a really good black male voice at the helm.

The sad part is that, after African-Americans walked away from it, they didn't care what the hell we did with it. And before we could realize what we'd been handed, we let Britain have at it, and we’ve been riding shotgun ever since. Even though it was uncool, for decades, for a black kid to like Rock and Roll, it’s not like lots of kids don’t persist with their passions despite a lack of peer approval, so that should not have made any real difference.

I was listening last night to The Faces, Long Player, and The Stones, Let it Bleed. I had to have known when these were new that it was all directly lifted from delta blues. Maybe we all knew, quite clearly, but didn’t care because, in its feeble attempt to honor something older and truer, it sounded new so we liked it. In the history of the world, how many times has all or part of a culture changed, because of a poor rendition, and/or a lack of understanding of the recent past?

I'm sure I've left out some notable R & R contributors of the last 50 years---Lennie Kravitz for one (well, he's Halfrican-American). Darius Rucker? Go ahead, I dare you!! Darius Rucker?!!!


OK. Now I totally see why I have never written this before--it doesn't have an ending. Shit!




Edited by BobKay (06/29/12 09:44 PM)
_________________________
"Ya rolls the dice and ya takes yer chanskes."
Popeye

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#379343 - 06/29/12 09:52 PM Re: The Vatican Dumpster [Re: BobKay]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7040
Loc: Canada
What elvis did is bring rock & roll into the American mainstream. This was a time when people like Little Richard Chuck Berry and Fats Domino were not getting airplay on mainstream (ie: white) radio.

Elvis opened the door and they followed while leading. The Stones, Led Zeppilin and others from that era knew and will tell you where their music came from.

It was/is white America that had no clue.

Quote:
Well, we all know that stopped---dead---cold. Vocal music by black artists was popular simultaneously; The Platters, The Bluenotes, lots of them were around at the time. For some reason, that music survived and morphed (not a big stretch at all) into the sounds of Motown, Philly and a few places in the Deep South. By the end of 1963, African-Americans had pretty much abandoned Rock and Roll.

They moved on while the rest of North America shifted to commecial rock. Hmm... brings whole new meaning to 'Out Of Africa'.
_________________________
Fred

-------
Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

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#379347 - 06/29/12 10:36 PM Re: The Vatican Dumpster [Re: fredk]
BobKay Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/23/10
Posts: 3126
Loc: Massachusetts Badlands
Yes, of course. You make my points, but if you wanna feel like you're disagreeing with me, OK then.

White audiences left R & R, too, in droves. I had so many friends who were strictly Motown people. I never understood how they could survive on that. Once the politicization of folk made it into R & R, everything got more interesting. R & B was still about moon, June, spoon.

So, are you saying that the R & R of Little Richard and Fats Domino became "Motown" and African-Amercains felt through with R & R? Is it like when we white people used the word "def" too much, so they had it killed off.

It's hard to believe that not any black kids have bands. I mean, apparently they don't, but it's still hard to believe. Latino kids do, Asian-America kids do. Hell, there are even Native-American bands. I'm not talking hip-hop/rap. For sure, that is the dominant musical force for most young people, regardless of ethnicity. I'm just surprised that no one has tried to take it back, well, no one since Living Color. And I'm surprised that they didn't engender a larger interest, even just in New York.
_________________________
"Ya rolls the dice and ya takes yer chanskes."
Popeye

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#379354 - 06/29/12 11:17 PM Re: The Vatican Dumpster [Re: BobKay]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7040
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: BobKay
Yes, of course. You make my points, but if you wanna feel like you're disagreeing with me, OK then. [\quote]
Not disagreeing. Just pointing out Elvis had great value, just not as a writer/creater.

Quote:
It's hard to believe that not any black kids have bands. I mean, apparently they don't, but it's still hard to believe.

[quote]... I'm not talking hip-hop/rap...

That's exactly the point. They have moved on. Like it or not Rock 'n Roll (as seen from our perspective) is in its sunset years. Or maybe its morphing, I dunnow.

It seems to me that music is getting harder to categorize. I think that is a good thing. Variety is the spice of life.

You do still see lots of black blues bands. From my perspective lots of them are still playing rock, just more directly blues influenced.
_________________________
Fred

-------
Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

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#379371 - 06/30/12 11:26 AM Re: The Vatican Dumpster [Re: fredk]
BobKay Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/23/10
Posts: 3126
Loc: Massachusetts Badlands
At no point in my tome, Fred, do I recall using the terms "African-Canadian, or "African-North American."

Can I please get someone to weigh in on this who has never received medical attention via national healthcare or thought that tuxedoes were blue? grin


Edited by BobKay (06/30/12 11:27 AM)
_________________________
"Ya rolls the dice and ya takes yer chanskes."
Popeye

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