Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners Time to upgrade the LCR speakers

So the wife said she hates the way my 40 year old JBL speakers look. That's great because I hate the way they sound. So it's time for an upgrade. I am going to start with the front left and right speaker then upgrade the center. My room is about 2500 cubic feet as it has a vaulted ceiling and open to the dining room and stairway. I currently have QS8 surrounds and a Pioneer VSX-1121-k along with the old JBL speakers.

My first though was to get the M22 v3 and stands for about $700. Then I realized that is really close in cost to the M50 at $828. But then I'm only $250 away from the M60.

So my question is how much better do the M60's sound? I have $700 now but I am patient and can wait a few months to get to the M60.

When I demoed V2 speakers at Axiom, the M22 plus sub was nearly indistinguishable from the M60 (except the bass of course)

The question is whether the M22 can handle a larger room like yours. I can't answer that, but I'm sure people with experience with the M22 will be along shortly.

I like the way you think Hold out for the M60's ,buyers remorse sux. Then you can add a VP 160 to round things out. Go big or , well you know what i mean.

The question should of course not be "how much better?", but rather "better at all?". Mike, the M22s and M60s use the same tweeter and for the all-important mid-range the M22s use two of the 5 1/4" drivers while the M60 uses one. The M22 would therefore have the the capacity to play a little louder with low distortion in the middle frequencies. The advantage of the M60s shows up in the bass where the larger enclosure and 6 1/2" woofers becomes significant. If used alone the M60 definitely has an advantage in the lowest bass frequencies. If used with a good sub, this would be of less significance.

Note that less expensive stands are available for the M22s, including close to zero for something home made.

The VP160 would be sweet but that is a big cabinet. It wouldn't fit on my entertainment center below my TV. Not to mention the WAF!

JohnK, cheaper stands would be awesome. I will have a toddler at home in less than a year so I need a stand that secures the speaker to the stand like the Axiom. All the other stands I have found are cheap MDF stands where the speaker just sits on top. Not exactly safe. Any ideas would bring the cost down and get me started on a sub!

I have twin 2 year olds running around. We had this play pen from when they were babies, we used it to surround the TV/speakers. It's worked well enough for us over the last 1+ year.

Mike, it's fairly common to use an adhesive such as Blu Tack to attach a speaker to a stand.

I originally used the M22s in a L/R config. along with subs before I moved to M60s(and eventually M80s)and even with the crossover setting at 80HZ, the difference I noted between the M22s and M60s was in being able to handle that bass in kind of the "no mans land" around 60>80HZ where, when the volume was cranked up for movies, as good as the M22s are, they seemed to strain a little handling the sound in that frequency range. The M60s, of course, handled it with no problem.

With or without subs, based on my experience, I would spend the extra and buy the M60s.

I would get the M60s and a set of outriggers. Unfortunately, that'll add ~$200 to the price tag. But they're a lot more stable with them.

If you do go with M22s, make sure you fill the stands with something (sand, lead weights, something).

I have a project in "progress" to protect my M60's/LFR's (when they arrive) from my 100LB German Shepherd... My project will be more than adequate for a toddler... Said project will only work with the Axiom towers though.... I can get you a set, for around 200$ish... and it will be WAY better than anything you can buy from any store.

Nuff said, about my super secret project

INANE, I am sad to admit that at this stage in life your setup with the child gate is awesome!! Knowing that the gate is temporary will make it easier to bear.

casey01, this is my fear with the M22s. I will be buying a sub after I get the M22s. I will need something to fill the void in the low end.

Did you calibrate your M22s and sub with a sound meter and were still unable to cover that 60-80hz range?

i would try to x-over at around 100Hz, as long as the sub works well at that freq. it should fill-in "the hole" very well.

The gate is an option, but we've had two young kids, one still a toddler, and have had zero issues with speakers and electronics. We just teach them to play with their own toys and both kids have learned to "not touch".
That being said, floorstanding vs bookshelf speakers are alot harder to topple over.

In re: to sound quality, M60s will have alot more detail than the M50. I compared the M40s and M60s awhile back (the M40s being the smaller version of the M50s but still a floorstanding unit).
http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=98061

In a larger room, the M60 (with our without a sub) will fill the room with alot more sound than the M22 by far. I also started with the M22, in a fairly small room, and it never sounded "enough" to me such that we went back and got the M60s instead.
They turned out to be more what i was expecting from a speaker.
http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3289

Interesting. In my 2400 Cu Ft HT room, I've never found that my M22s with twin 10" Velodyne subs (used as their stands) ever ran out of breath even at the 0 Db Ref Level on my Denon AVR.

In fact, at 0 Db Ref Level, they are far too loud for my tastes & my aural health. Listening at -10 Db Level is much more comfortable & they are plenty loud even there...

TAM

How high are your M22s when they are sitting on the subs? I am looking at getting some 22" stands if I end up going with the M22s.

Mike, there's no "void". The M22 enclosure is tuned to about 59Hz(low point in the impedance curve)and the response is quite strong to at least that frequency. The auto-calibration resulted in a 60Hz crossover, which I manually reset to 80Hz, so as to give the EP500 more to do in the range it does best. Certainly with a setting of 80Hz, there's no weakness in either the sub or the mains in the crossover area. If a specific location in a particular room had a room acoustics problem there, it would affect any speaker similarly placed.

Ya that is my existing Axioms in our family room. I'm thinking about buying all new (M80s!) for my new basement HT and I'm not going to put a gate around them there. If one of my girls knocks them over they'll just wish they had a different dad after that.

Mike:

My Velodyne 10" subs provide a 16.5" stand for the M22s that put the tweeter at 34" from the floor. This is very close to ear level & similar to Axiom's FMS16 stand height that are ideal for the M22s. They work wonderfully for me in my HT. I would think that 22" stands would be a bit too high for my seating position.

At $300 a piece, the Velos make very cost effective stands that also produce sound, & look pretty good as well!

You can see them in this site's 'Wall o' Fame' - 'Tom's Rebuilt Home Theater'.

TAM

exlabdriver,

Which model of Velodyne 10" subs are you using?

They are the Velodyne DLS-3750R. They now have been replaced by the EQ-Max series.

I got them at Future Shop here in Canada last summer when they were clearing them out. Being the current models, the EQ-Max are still quite expensive.

They may not be considered to be the ultimate in subs by the HT fanatics out there; however, they make my house shake & rattle nicely when required & they sound clean with music. If you are going for smaller subs under 12", then I think that at least 2 would be the best option for better sound dispersion.

TAM

"So the wife said she hates the way my 40 year old JBL speakers look. That's great because I hate the way they sound."

Pure win. Best intro to a post in a long time.