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#382017 - 08/23/12 02:41 PM Any threads on tankless water heaters?
chesseroo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 4829
Loc: western canada
As i post this thread asking about tankless water heaters ironically in the Water Cooler forum...

I couldn't find any discussions on these using the search (or google search) functions.
Anyone have a link?
If not, anyone have any thoughts?
Good brands to consider?

We've got Carrier hvac units right now and ya, they are more pricey than some, but they have been outstanding, lasting beyond their expected life. I'll put out money again for a decent tankless water heater if it runs and lasts like our Carrier units.
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#382025 - 08/23/12 04:06 PM Re: Any threads on tankless water heaters? [Re: chesseroo]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16273
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
I'm trying to find something offensive about this point so I can flag it, but I'm coming up short.

My in-laws have a gas tankless heater in their condo. It takes a while to do the initial warm-up, but then the hot water flows as long as you need it - as long as everyone doesn't need it at once. I'm not sure what brand it is.
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#382026 - 08/23/12 04:10 PM Re: Any threads on tankless water heaters? [Re: chesseroo]
FordPrefect Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/05/02
Posts: 1334
Loc: Ancaster, Ontario
This might be worth a read:
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/appli...-heaters-ov.htm


We were considering one but because of our "advanced years" didn't bite.

YMMV

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#382027 - 08/23/12 04:12 PM Re: Any threads on tankless water heaters? [Re: chesseroo]
chesseroo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 4829
Loc: western canada
Hmm, maybe i should flag myself on my post just to be fair.
wink

This page sort of summarizes common problems with the tankless systems.
http://www.airmakers.ca/water_heaters.php
Some issues are blown out of proportion, but two common things i have noted from many reviews is as you describe, takes awhile to get the hot water flowing and secondly, you can get hot/cold water sandwiched during short uses of the hot water tap.
The tankless designs need to be run continuously to turn on and heat water. If a person were shaving and just turning on the tap every minute for a few seconds, then by the time the hot water in the line is drained, you would have to put the tap on full until hot water came out again.

I think there may be some solutions to include a small tank with a tankless system. I have no interest in hooking up a localized heater near each sink.

Presently we have a large jacuzzi in our ensuite that we cannot fill with a 50 gallon hot water tank. It is unusable unless we get some other system.
I was wondering if a high performance tank might suffice, with a quick recharge rate.
http://www.johnwoodwaterheaters.com/EN/Commercial%20Products/Polaris-High-Efficiency-Gas.html
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#382028 - 08/23/12 04:28 PM Re: Any threads on tankless water heaters? [Re: FordPrefect]
chesseroo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 4829
Loc: western canada
Originally Posted By: FordPrefect
This might be worth a read:
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/appli...-heaters-ov.htm


We were considering one but because of our "advanced years" didn't bite.

YMMV

Yep, saw that one.
We're not concerned that overall long term costs and may not get back the investment of the tankless system. I am more keen on saving on gas. People refer to wasting water, but in reality the water goes down the sink, to a waste water plant and gets spit right back into the environment.
If anything you are just putting clean water back into the system and paying for it.
That bothers me less than wasting gas, a limited resource that is not recyclable.

BUT, can we live with the other downsides?
I think we can adapt to how the tankless system works. Only rinsing the occasional dishes and shaving (for which i could fill a sink with hot water and use that method instead) might show the problem of tank vs tankless.
However, i'm uncertain if the dishwasher or washing machine would draw enough hot water for their use to properly do the job. I doubt they are triggered to run water until it hits a certain temp but rather are on timers to pull a certain amount of water from a hot line before shutting off and running their cycles.
We do most clothes in warm or cold washes anyway, and the dishwasher can be put onto its own sanitize cycle (uses its own internal heater) but still something else to consider.

At this point i'm researching the info, but would like to find good brand names.
Of all the reviews i've seen, Rennai seems to be one of the names that ppl have yet to complain about service or malfunction issues.
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#382038 - 08/23/12 08:35 PM Re: Any threads on tankless water heaters? [Re: chesseroo]
HomeDad Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/29/05
Posts: 3301
Loc: Central,California
http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=335227&page=1

We switched over from a Bosch to a Rinnai, we had a problem with the Bosch after a large storm and couldn't find anyone to service it, so we switched to Rinnai and have been very satisfied.
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#382052 - 08/24/12 11:17 AM Re: Any threads on tankless water heaters? [Re: chesseroo]
chesseroo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 4829
Loc: western canada
Thanks for the link to the thread. I think the link i provided earlier in this thread covers all and more of the negatives that ppl noted about the tankless systems.
The idea works well for some applications but i'm not certain it will work for us.

The two biggest pluses for tankless comes down to space saving (isn't a big issue for us) and saving energy (obviously preferred).
But the biggest thing we need to overcome is a lack of hot water to fill a jacuzzi tub with our present tank without compromising the availability of hot water for small applications like the dishwasher and washer. They don't use much water these days and i'm figuring if they pull water from the hot water line, but not enough to trigger the tankless system, or it takes too long for the tankless to supply hot water during the 30 seconds or so that our dishwasher (for example) draws water, then we would be always washing dishes and clothes in cold water even when a hot water option is selected.
I know people have complained about the length of time it takes to get hot water to the tap with a tankless unit, but i doubt anyone may have noticed if this problem carries over to the dishwasher and washer as well.

As a tradeoff, i'm thinking about replacing our 1999 Bradford White tank with a commercial, high performance tank instead:
http://www.johnwoodwaterheaters.com/EN/Commercial%20Products/Polaris-High-Efficiency-Gas.html

The Bradford has a typical input heating of 50,000 BTU/hr while the Polaris is rated for 199,000 BTU/hr, designed for small restaurant use (faster water heating recovery). With the unit turned up a bit higher providing more hot water / litre, i think this might solve the jacuzzi tub filling problem, while maintaining our present level of convenience with a tank system and yet possibly increase our capacity to recover hot water as the kids grow older and use the shower more often.

If we get to the point of having THAT much hot water used, the kids will either get used to cold showers, or if i'm feeling generous, i might consider a hybrid system where the tankless feeds the tank as someone mentioned earlier.
MAYBE.

Does anyone have any experience with a higher performance hot water tank like the Polaris?
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"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."

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#382073 - 08/24/12 10:36 PM Re: Any threads on tankless water heaters? [Re: chesseroo]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16273
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
I've got an idea. From the cold water pipe that you have running to the jacuzzi, splice a length of copper pipe that runs about 20 feet from your house, connect it to about 20 feet of coiled copper (about .5m diameter), then run a return to the hot water inlet. Build a fire beneath the copper loop whenever you want to fill the tub with hot water.
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#382077 - 08/25/12 12:20 AM Re: Any threads on tankless water heaters? [Re: chesseroo]
chesseroo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 4829
Loc: western canada
Or i can splice some copper tubing, drill a hole in my neighbors basement wall, stab it into his hot water tank....
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"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."

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#382173 - 08/27/12 09:13 AM Re: Any threads on tankless water heaters? [Re: chesseroo]
Murph Offline
axiomite

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 6820
Loc: PEI, Canada
Re. "water going right back into the environment"...

While that is true as a simple statement, the net local effect is usually nothing so simple. Ground water systems are almost always autonomous and utility companies rarely (probably close to never) put water back into the same systems that they are taking from. Too much risk, plus there is usually a shorter route to the 'dumping' area than the distance to pipe it back to the source.

It is very possible to entirely drain a localities water source as the water does not go full circle (evaporation, redistribution) in a timely manner. That is happening right now in the City where I work due to an unusually dry summer and combined with city planners who are approving record numbers of building permits (mostly for multi-unit dwellings) while still trying to run the city on it's old single reservoir.

This can be accentuated by looking at people who use wells in their own back yards for heat pumps. Some heat pumps operate on a dual well system where they draw from one well, use it for home heating, then dump the water back into another well. Even though both wells might be in your back yard, it is very possible that both wells touch entirely different underground water systems. It is possible to entirely drain your input well dry, even though you are dumping water back into the ground only 100' away.

I'm not preaching conservation here as I don't know your local situation. I just wanted to share a very tiny bit of what I've been learning lately about water tables.
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