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#382942 - 09/19/12 09:28 AM Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker
Amie Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 1620
Here's your chance to help us design the perfect speaker! We think there is a need on the market today for a pair of audiophile-quality Airplay-enabled speakers, for people who like both great sound and easy-to-use products.

We're intrigued by the possibility of creating an Airplay Speaker that allows for easy interfacing with an iTunes account running anywhere on your home network.

We’ve been tossing ideas around internally, but we would really love to hear what you are looking for in a networked speaker. Do you think it's enough to be Airplay-enabled only, or do you think Android is where it's at and that we need to look at a speaker solution that supports both MAC and Android operating systems? What about Bluetooth?

How important is portability to you? Is it enough to have a pair of speakers you could just plug into a wall outlet anywhere in the range of your Wifi network that would stream music from your iTunes, or do you want something with a battery pack so that you can take it outside with you?

Stereo, or single speaker solution?

We’d love to hear your thoughts – help us design the perfect speaker!
_________________________
Amie Colquhoun
Axiom Audio

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#382944 - 09/19/12 09:59 AM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17782
Loc: NoVA
Stereo, hands down.

I'm not sure if there is yet an Android equivalent to Airplay, but if there is, it should be pursued.

I suspect that bluetooth is not long range enough.

I personally am not interested in a battery pack, but if you could make the power supply internal to the speaker so there is not a wall wart to deal with, that would be appreciated.

Size wise, I'd like something in the M3 range, maybe M2. Maybe both!
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#382945 - 09/19/12 10:18 AM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
Amie Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 1620
That's a great observation on the wallwart - I know how much rearranging I have to do on my powerbars to configure all the different shapes.

There seem to be apps designed to let you create an Airplay Receiver out of just about anything (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.bubblesoft.android.airbubble&hl=en), and other apps designed to let you use an Android device to run them (eg http://evolver.fm/appdb/app/honey-player)
_________________________
Amie Colquhoun
Axiom Audio

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#382948 - 09/19/12 10:28 AM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16280
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
Oh, yes! I'm partial to Apple products, so AirPlay only support would be fine by me, but you'd be able to snag a wider market by including Bluetooth, so I think that's a must.

Stereo, for sure. Portability would be great, too. I once lugged my Audiobytes (sans sub) to a cabin in the woods and it wasn't very convenient so I haven't done it again. To make these Axiom AirPlay speakers portable, in addition to sizing them right, you should offer a briefcase-style carrying case as an optional accessory. You could make such a case double as an outboard rechargeable battery pack with flat lithium ion or even flatter lithium polymer batteries (as found in some laptops) along the bottom of the case.

So many possibilities... This is pretty exciting!
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#382949 - 09/19/12 10:30 AM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17782
Loc: NoVA
I think having them as stereo rather than sat+sub is pretty essential as far as portability. It's why I haven't moved my ABs anywhere, even though I'd like to be able to move them around the house. It's just too much of a hassle.
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#382953 - 09/19/12 11:32 AM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
gnickers Offline
frequent flier

Registered: 09/19/12
Posts: 17
Loc: London
I bought the Logitech S715i for the GF to listen to CBC and music in the kitchen. The ipod plugs into the top and i got a longer cable for the ipad. There is 1 external jack too.

Except for the wall wart it is a decent unit. Battery lasts for quite a while. Not bad sound, quite impressive actually for such a small, lightweight device...much better than the previous clock radio which drove me crazy with the distortion. Took it to the cottage too. If it supported airplay or other streaming methods it would be even more useful...


Edited by gnickers (09/19/12 11:32 AM)

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#382954 - 09/19/12 11:40 AM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
Da_Gimp_Pimp Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 06/23/07
Posts: 4022
Loc: Sitting down somewhere
If they're battery powered, you should offer an East Indian boy as part of the package for your disabled buyers. If that battery goes dead while I'm listening to Rage, I need said battery replaced ASAP or I'll do some serious custom house reno's.

My best friend has family in Bangladesh. I could probably get you a few of his cousins.

Other than Apple support, this is really cool grin .
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#382955 - 09/19/12 11:41 AM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
rprice54 Offline
old hand

Registered: 10/16/09
Posts: 88
Loc: North Georgia
What a tease, I was just looking at Airplay speakers yesterday, we want something for the living room... now I have to wait for Axiom to come up with their version... ahhh!!! I'm a big fan of Airplay. From my phone in my pocket I can send and/or control the same music to my outdoor Algonquin's, and to any other airplay systems in the house- so the music is the same as you move from room to room and inside to outside- a very nice/clean effect to have several rooms playing the same thing and controlling it from your phone. Bluetooth is okay, but your source has to be in the same room. There are other non-Apple wifi solutions out there, but I'm not familiar with them. I'm (kinda) sure someone could come up with an Android app to stream music to airplay speakers. Itunes is cross platform and free at least for PC users. Bluetooth would be a more universal 'backup' interface for non iOS users. I know, just include a free iPod with purchase!

The perfect unit would be super small and unobtrusive, easy to put anywhere, with perfect, crisp clean sound and tight solid punchy bass. Since that's not possible you (the buyer) need to figure out how much of a compromise you're willing to make in one area to improve the other. When I was looking for some iPod speakers for our kitchen, the problem was finding good speakers at a reasonable price- at some point you cross over into the receiver + in wall speaker price range. Plus we didn't want huge speakers in the kitchen. We settled on a Klipsch unit at the time, a good small size for the kitchen counter, but with decent sound and decent bass when placed in a corner. It's used mostly for background music while we're in the kitchen though. Not the overpriced/over bassed (just made that up) Bose unit.

I agree the M2-M3 range for sound quality would be a good place to start. For a living room system I would be willing to up the size (from our current small Klipsch dock) for better sound. An optional wireless sub would be really cool for those willing to spend a bit more, but still optional for those of us who realize our true music listening will be with our full Axiom setup in whatever room we have it in.

I think a good starting place would be similar to your computer speaker setup- decent speakers (I assume, I haven't hear them) with an optional sub. I actually looked into those when we bought the dock. Personally, I'd pay at most ~$350-400 for this kind of airplay setup, which may price me out of an 'audiophile' Axiom option, but again, I would be using the unit primarily for background/convenient listening- when it's time to rock out I'm headed downstairs to the media room. I think stereo would be a must, but I don't know. Two speakers inches apart from each other may not really separate sound well. I'd take one good speaker over two crappy ones. Maybe a modular one speaker system would let people use two units, further apart, for better separation. But then you'd need some kind of hub/controller to interface with iTunes and decide which speaker gets which channel. Might make it more affordable for someone to buy one at a time and add on as they want.

Not too interested in a battery pack built in- maybe an external one like suggested above. I've never been impressed by battery powered speakers. Esp if that battery is trying to run wifi as well. I'm guessing you're going to be close to your wifi network which means you'll be close to a plug...

I would be more than happy to volunteer my time as a beta tester for the new units wink I use airplay almost every day to some degree.

Sorry for the long post, but it's something I'd be interested in. Can't wait to see if you guys come up with something.

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#382956 - 09/19/12 11:46 AM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
vassillios Offline
aficionado

Registered: 02/28/07
Posts: 597
Loc: Warrenton, VA
Maybe look into 2 designs. 1 that is more stationary and 1 that is more mobile.

The mobile version should have a built in rechargeable battery with a small jack in the back to attach a cord to plug into the wall to recharge, as well as an option for plug in power. Maybe more of a "bar" design so it is one piece instead of 2, yet still stereo.

For separate stereo operation, AirPlay sends a signal to a unit for processing and sends the signal to the speakers. If you develop a stereo solution with 2 speakers, how do you send to the 2 speakers? Would 1 speaker get the signal? How do you send the other channel info to the other speaker? Would you have to wire the 2 speakers together?



Edited by vassillios (09/19/12 12:03 PM)
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#382957 - 09/19/12 11:51 AM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
nickbuol Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/16/04
Posts: 4474
Loc: Marion, IA
I think that if you are going to make a product like this, don't just focus on AirPlay. While it is nice, there are a LOT of other devices out there besides Apple. Heck, in the phone market, July showed the following market share:
Android 51%
iOS 32%
BlackBerry OS 11%
Windows Phone 4%

(source: BGR July 2012 Phone Market Share )
Sure, AirPlay is not exclusive of the iPhone by any means, but i nour house with a mix of Apple and Android devices, the Android ones are the ones that play the most music. For me using my Android phone, I either have ear buds in, or a stream to my home theater receiver. Having something elsewhere in the house for casual playback, but with quality sounds would be nice.

WiFi would be preferred over bluetooth to accomodate greater distances from the source to the "receiver" point for the speakers, but having both would have its advantages too.

Technologies just as DLNA would offer a wide variety of options for connectivity.

Than again, it is probably easier to cater to a single segment of the music steaming audience, but if you want to true attempt at audiophile sound for steaming audio, then it SHOULD cater to more than one market component.

Oh, and definately a wall-wart. Some people are going to do more "permanent" installs and will just leave them turned on. Even with a "sleep mode" to save power, the batteries wouldn't last long. Most "wireless" surround speakers are powered via a wall-wart instead of batteries for this exact reason.
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#382958 - 09/19/12 11:55 AM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
Amie Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 1620
This is really helpful everyone - thanks for the input! Keep it coming!

I didn't ask but should have - what are your 'weight tolerances'? How much can this weigh before you find it too big / too inconvenient?
_________________________
Amie Colquhoun
Axiom Audio

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#382959 - 09/19/12 12:00 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
vassillios Offline
aficionado

Registered: 02/28/07
Posts: 597
Loc: Warrenton, VA
Originally Posted By: Amie
This is really helpful everyone - thanks for the input! Keep it coming!

I didn't ask but should have - what are your 'weight tolerances'? How much can this weigh before you find it too big / too inconvenient?


For true mobility, it shouldn't be more than 16oz (that might even be too much). For stand alone, I don't think weight is a consideration.
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#382961 - 09/19/12 12:06 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
a401classic Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 11/29/06
Posts: 1189
Loc: Alpharetta, GA
Seeing some of the Gizmodo references brought back recent thoughts of what to do with my VP150 - I was thinking of pulling the middle speaker and somehow stuffing a small amp (Lepai LP-2020 guts, for instance) and an iPod docking port inside the cabinet and fabricating a power switch and volume knob that would fit in the round void up front. This would leave a set of horizontal stereo speakers on either side of the controls and dock. I know, not the best imaging, but for my kid's dorm room it's probably better than nothing.
Now, incorporating the electronics for AirPlay would eliminate the need for the dock and make for a cleaner finish.
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Scott

My HT

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#382963 - 09/19/12 12:48 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
Allan_A Offline
newbie

Registered: 09/17/04
Posts: 4
Yes Amie! Yes Ian!. I really hope this comes to market - there is a huge gap that is not being filled by anything decent.

I have a house full of speakers and do use airplay for a couple of rooms (I do it using airport expresses)..

Here are my thoughts and wishes...

Two models, indoor, outdoor.

Outdoor should be single, easily hangable on a wall box, (re-chargable) battery pack, weatherproof'ish would be great.

Actually I would make them both single boxes, nicely powered.

Indoor...

The bar for this (to me) would be the JBL Soundstage 400 which I drag around outside and in the kitchen. I like it ascetically as it is not too big and is not very placement dependant, and even with that size, as far as sound quality as it is the only single box I've heard that has any type of oomph and stereo imaging.

Competition: The new Beats audio boxes are very appealing to the youth. While not sonically very accurate, they do produce an appealing (to that market) sound.

On that note, to widen the appeal into teens bedrooms, I would add a dock for the device, even if it is just a usb port so that it could be used as a charger for phones.

Again, if you wanted to widen the use you could also add in an optical port so that the it could be used as a soundbar type of device to use in smaller tv rooms, bedrooms that may not have stereo set ups - most cable/sat boxes have optical outs on them.

Finally, I think that aesthetics are important in this market category.

And that is really my thoughts for these types of speakers, thanks for listening and good luck Amie!


Edited by Allan_A (09/19/12 12:51 PM)

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#382966 - 09/19/12 01:50 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8290
Loc: Tacoma
I'm with Vassillios; two, distinct products.

First, stereo speakers based on the M3 for permanent installation. I think an external power supply is okay as long as it attaches to the wall with a regular size plug. I'm interested to know everyone's thinking on whether both speakers plug into the wall or one plugs into the wall and the other one plugs into the first one (I suspect the latter is the only feasible solution). The carrying case is a nice idea, but should be optional.

As to connectivity, I think you have to make provision for Bluetooth in addition to airplay. Maybe they are different models with different internals. A third option could be a wireless version that includes a transmitter that could be connected to any source device via analog jack so that the speakers could be used as surround speakers where wiring is problematic.

The second item would be small, portable, rechargeable and one piece. Something like a Jawbone Jambox. In our house, there is demand for something in the bathroom that can connect to iPad, iPod or Android phone. It wouldn't have to be tiny, but form factor matters.

Fun!
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#382969 - 09/19/12 02:00 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
jweisberg Offline
newbie

Registered: 05/09/12
Posts: 1
I believe there are two separate products here.

1. A single box portable solution, heir to the boombox. Think Audiobyte speakers on either end with a single woofer for bass support in the middle. Class D amp for energy efficiency. Wi-Fi, 1/8" input jack; no Bluetooth. USB charging port for portable player/phone. Maybe an iPhone/iPod dock, but would need to be with adapters for different models. A well to hold non-Apple player devices so that it isn't sitting loose on top or lying beside.
Power options: AC adapter, rechargeable battery pack, and external 12v input (e.g., for car powerpoint adapter). I like the idea of eliminating the external, plug-hugging wall-wart, but building it into the device adds weight that may be undesirable at times. A solution I haven't seen anyone use yet is to have the battery pack or AC power adapter fit into the same pocket in the device - plug in the one you need for mobile (around the yard) vs portable (around the house) use.
The unit should be as much under 10lbs / 4kgs as you can get it while still surpassing the sound quality of existing units. Weather resistant, so getting a couple of minutes of rain on it before putting it under cover isn't an issue. Limited colour choices.
The market for this unit is people who want better quality sound than current consumer offerings, and are willing to have a bit heavier unit to gain that, but who would never consider going to the extent of something like a self-built Boominator, which is designed for all weekend use.

2. Two separate powered speakers for use indoors. Fills a niche between the Audiobytes (connected to computer) and something like M2s with a receiver, for bedroom and den type systems, or primary systems for those who don't want a full-size set-up.
Power supply built-in, 1/8" input for non-Airplay use, USB charging port for portable devices. No bigger than M2s. Optional powered sub-woofer. Available in all Axiom's finishes.
Market for this is people who want a compact, convenient, good-sounding and stylish unit for secondary rooms, or a main system if they aren't into home theatre and dedicated music listening (or want a smaller system because they expect to move a lot or live in a smaller residence). So needs to be more convenient and attractive than an Airport Express/Apple TV plus separate powered speakers, and better quality but not dramatically more expensive than big-box Airplay solutions. I think Axiom's range of finishes is a big competitive edge for this product.

Why no Bluetooth? Limited range and bandwidth, most wireless music playing devices support Wi-fi anyway.
Why not focus on Apple devices? Because Apple may be dominant, but they still have less than 50% of the market in areas such as smart-phones. And there are way more competitors doing Apple only audio devices.

Two other technology thoughts, possible inclusions depending on cost. One is DLNA support, which makes possible use with systems other than Airplay. The other is for the second product - audio input from a HDTV, DVD player, or laptop/tablet. Seems a lot of people have secondary TVs, and don't want a full surround system, but do want better sound than the TV speakers or laptop/tablet provide. Their obvious option right now is a HTIB or cheap receiver + soundbar, neither of which would sound or look as good, or be as well integrated, as a powered Axiom solution.

Good luck with the product development!

John

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#382972 - 09/19/12 02:34 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17782
Loc: NoVA
DLNA, of course. I'd prefer to have Airplay over DLNA, but having both would be ideal.
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#382974 - 09/19/12 02:51 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
Murph Offline
axiomite

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 6833
Loc: PEI, Canada
Lots of good stuff said already so I'll just add my votes.

--Airplay.
--Bluetooth
--Stereo
--2 way minimum, we need that tweeter.
--AC vs. battery?? as long as it's not battery only. Question... How long can a decent speaker last on a set of batteries anyways?

--No wallworts!!!!!

--Left and rights are separate units. I have never understood stereo when the two speakers are mashed close together in a single unit. Two channels give better sonic reproduction I'm sure but certainly no stereophonic effect.

--DLNA would be useful, but I think this would overcomplicate your product. You are not trying to build the smarts into the speaker, you just want to make it an audio slave (no reference to the band intended) to other smart devices, correct?

For me personally, if I was buying 'outdoor' speakers, I'd go with permanent outdoor speakers. For this model, an indoor set that I can occasionally drag outdoors would be fine. I'll pull em back in if it rains.

--Don't shoot me folks but if you go with an outdoors model, they may need a bit of a bass bump to overcome the tinney outdoor sound some speakers get without reflection points, but hey, I'm delving into design here, which is your bag and I know nothing.....notttinggggg.

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#382981 - 09/19/12 03:38 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
nickbuol Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/16/04
Posts: 4474
Loc: Marion, IA
If there isn't something more than Airplay and a good wireless method to stream, then I am out. Then again, if you advertise it with the right marketing, you will make a killing in the Apple market. Some of those folks will buy anything no matter the cost. laugh

Seriously though, I can't complain because the original question was about creating an Airplay speaker. You could keep it simple and just have that.

Power without batteries or wallwarts would mean that the conversion from wall power to what the speakers would use just moves from the wallwart to inside the speaker. It has to be put somewhere. Make it sexy. Include Airplay (obviously). Offer it in white only. Charge a small fortune. Market it like crazy. Make a lot of money.
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M60s, VP180, VP150, QS8s, SVS 20-39PCi, HTPC, JVC RS45, Onkyo TX-NR709, Shakers

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#382984 - 09/19/12 04:41 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
INANE Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/04/04
Posts: 1668
Loc: Omaha, Nebraska
Timing is everything I guess. Enter Miracast.

Miracast appears to be making a stab at becoming an Airplay-like industry standard. I like what I'm reading about it. The iSheep will prob continue to use Airplay (why would they not) but this could become a possible/probable replacement for DLNA, widi and the like.
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HT v2.0 !
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#382985 - 09/19/12 05:24 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
Amie Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 1620
That is freaky timing! Am I understanding correctly that it will only work forward? Meaning it won't work with currently available devices that don't have it? Or am I misunderstanding?
_________________________
Amie Colquhoun
Axiom Audio

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#382987 - 09/19/12 06:20 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
dakkon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 1846
Amie, if the speakers were an airplay enabled outdoor version of the M22's i would be in... I would like speakers for outside by the pool... It would be wonderful to be able to just plug the speakers in and have no other components or stuff to mess with.... It would also be nice to be able to have more than 1 pair work simultaneously as i would probably get 2 pair... As far as power goes, 115V would be fine with me, i will just run power to where i need it.

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#382988 - 09/19/12 06:53 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
vassillios Offline
aficionado

Registered: 02/28/07
Posts: 597
Loc: Warrenton, VA
Originally Posted By: Amie
That is freaky timing! Am I understanding correctly that it will only work forward? Meaning it won't work with currently available devices that don't have it? Or am I misunderstanding?


By "it", do you mean AirPlay?
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#382989 - 09/19/12 06:55 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
Amie Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 1620
No, I meant the Miracast - I was just reading that post on Gizmodo that Ben linked.
_________________________
Amie Colquhoun
Axiom Audio

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#382991 - 09/19/12 06:56 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
vassillios Offline
aficionado

Registered: 02/28/07
Posts: 597
Loc: Warrenton, VA
Just a thought, but perhaps a small LCD display that would show the currently playing media (if this info is passed through AirPlay). Sure you could see this info on the device streaming to the speakers, but perhaps your guests cannot see your device and they may want to know the name of the song/artist/media


Edited by vassillios (09/19/12 06:57 PM)
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#382992 - 09/19/12 06:58 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
gearcruncher Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 04/16/12
Posts: 37
Loc: Red Lake Ontario
I have owned a Siruis radio boombox since Sirius radio began . The sound of the original ( Emerson ) box is very good considering all they supplied you with was a volume knob . 8 D cell batteries is good for one day on the boat with the volume at 3/4 .The second design boombox does not sound as good as original boombox but will still get the attention of the local police department if played after hours .
If only Sirius would poll their customers for design implementations ???

I have never owned an apple airplay but can base my opinion of where I beleive a few things can be improved upon with an already reliable product .
Things I would add to the box .
1 - capability of ciggarette lighter 12 volt adapter .
2 - The ability to separate the speakers from the main unit .
3 - a built in hard drive with recording capability so if the receiver head unit was being used somewhere else , the unit could still be utilized .
4 - Weatherproofing

http://shop.sirius.ca/edealinv/servlet/E...erLangISO=en_US

I have been looking everyehere for one of these airplay boxes that will play using a Blackberry . Seems almost unavailable ?


Edited by gearcruncher (09/19/12 07:03 PM)
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#382993 - 09/19/12 07:24 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
minorman Offline
newbie

Registered: 09/19/12
Posts: 1
In order to make it so that true audioholics are impressed, it needs to stream more than just mp3s. Needs to support flac, wav, etc. streaming. The world needs less mp3s!

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#382994 - 09/19/12 07:27 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8290
Loc: Tacoma
I think "Keep it simple" is a good approach for Axiom.

The company's proven technical competencies are in loudspeaker and amplifier design and manufacturing.

Obviously, this kind of product is also going to need - at minimum - some kind of wireless network connectivity and a DAC chip.

Once you start going beyond the pieces that are absolutely necessary to deliver sound, you start needing more boards and/or custom boards, presumably from China.

Likewise, I think many of the "features" we used to associate with the equipment are now instead delivered through the handheld device. If I'm using my iPad or Android phone to stream the content anyway, I don't need a display on the speaker part, and I don't want the R/D and production costs added to it.

Just deliver the music. That's all.
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#382995 - 09/19/12 08:33 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
Ken.C Offline
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Registered: 05/03/03
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I agree with Tom, leave the LCD off. That's going to raise the price and there's no guarantee (or way) to make it work with everything.

Airplay will play anything that it receives; it's not a translator, it's more like an optical cable without the cable.

Heck, if you were to package Airfoil from Rogue Amoeba and, say, Twonky Beam for Android with the speakers, you could get away with making them Airplay only, except for anti-bois like Ben who won't touch anything that possibly might have been associated with Apple. wink

Well, that and people who only run Linux.
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#383001 - 09/19/12 10:40 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
Lampshade Online   sad
connoisseur

Registered: 11/08/05
Posts: 1163
Loc: Holbrook, MA
Here is what I would want. I single m3 with a lunch box handle on it so I could carry it easily from room to room where I needed it. I would not need stereo or a sub. It would take the place of my tivoli pal radio.
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#383006 - 09/19/12 11:53 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
Hansang Offline
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Loc: New York
I know the thread is "AirPlay" but I think it would be foolish to leave out Android with GooglePlay users.


The "Q" is pretty innovative in that it allows people to create play lists and "send it" to Q automatically. It's a different way of thinking about how music can be created in a large party. but I digress.

It would be great if Android support is embedded as well.
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#383008 - 09/20/12 12:35 AM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
INANE Offline
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Registered: 02/04/04
Posts: 1668
Loc: Omaha, Nebraska
Originally Posted By: Amie
That is freaky timing! Am I understanding correctly that it will only work forward? Meaning it won't work with currently available devices that don't have it? Or am I misunderstanding?


I believe the article did mention that some devices on the market already have the ability to use it, like the Samsung Galaxy S III. Also read someone in the comments said the next update to Intel's WIDI will also support it.
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#383009 - 09/20/12 12:37 AM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: minorman]
INANE Offline
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Registered: 02/04/04
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Loc: Omaha, Nebraska
Originally Posted By: minorman
In order to make it so that true audioholics are impressed, it needs to stream more than just mp3s. Needs to support flac, wav, etc. streaming. The world needs less mp3s!


mp3's have their uses especially in places where you don't have a controlled environment with background noise like in cars and outdoors. Most of the time I can't even tell the difference between a properly encoded mp3 and flac sitting in front of my M80's.
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#383010 - 09/20/12 12:38 AM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Ken.C]
INANE Offline
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Originally Posted By: Ken.C
...except for anti-bois like Ben who won't touch anything that possibly might have been associated with Apple. wink


indeed

smile
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HT v2.0 !
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#383019 - 09/20/12 09:49 AM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
CatBrat Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/05/09
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I'd prefer one that would display the current price of my stocks.

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#383028 - 09/20/12 11:56 AM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
chesseroo Offline
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Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 4829
Loc: western canada
This is an interesting thread since just this past summer we had the opportunity to take a portable ipod player with us on the road. It was used far more heavily than i ever figured it would and as i'm thinking about this, it also got great use in the hockey dressing room during a tournament in Banff back in March.

We don't use the ipod much, but for travel it is a great way to take alot more music along than via cds, and with the right application, we could upload mp3s in high quality formats for playback (in the event it got plugged into a better system).

The convenient options of the portable (Logitech) player was the fact it could use batteries or be plugged in (not everyone's dock or beach has power outlets).




The bass boost was nice considering the unit was so small. It made it sound alot less like a cheap AM radio.
It also had a stereo plug in the rear so one could hookup other electronics. In our case we watched a movie on a laptop down by the dock but got sound from the Logitech instead of the tiny laptop speakers but hooking up the headset out to the Logitech in port.

Obviously it would be nice to have a better quality build unit, but its size was perfect for our packed vehicle and stowed nicely in a Swissgear laptop bag i bought from Staples for this sort of thing two years ago.
Something like this:



Quite obviously this is not a wireless streaming unit, but incorporating that into such a package only adds to its possibilities for connections (one does not always need the streaming option at any given time).



Edited by chesseroo (09/20/12 11:59 AM)
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#383033 - 09/20/12 02:25 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
tomtuttle Offline
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Registered: 06/20/03
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+1

I guess I was always assuming that a stereo 1/8" jack for wired analog connection would ALSO be included.
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#383036 - 09/20/12 03:14 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
chesseroo Offline
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Registered: 05/13/02
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Since the image i included of the Logitech got replaced by some stupid add for the website, here's another image of our portable ipod player.
Maybe this one won't get clipped.


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#383037 - 09/20/12 03:16 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
real80sman Offline
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Registered: 05/16/02
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Loc: Ontario, Canada
Once they get everything figured out, I would like to buy just the electronic portion of the device. A plug-in airplay receiver, with an amp and speaker jacks, in a box as small as possible. One mono version, and one stereo. That way I can use it with my existing M3's and Algonquins. Love it. Let me know when it's ready. I'll take 2.
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Epic 80/600 + M3's + Custom Finish Algonquin V3's

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#383038 - 09/20/12 03:19 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
real80sman Offline
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No dock required.
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Shawn

Epic 80/600 + M3's + Custom Finish Algonquin V3's

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#383039 - 09/20/12 03:21 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
real80sman Offline
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The mono version would have a mounting bolt for the threaded hole on the back of the M3's/Algonquins.
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Epic 80/600 + M3's + Custom Finish Algonquin V3's

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#383041 - 09/20/12 03:57 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
tomtuttle Offline
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Great idea, Shawn.
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#383042 - 09/20/12 04:32 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: real80sman]
pmbuko Offline
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That there is some genius. smile
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#383043 - 09/20/12 04:35 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
Ken.C Offline
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I love that idea.
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#383044 - 09/20/12 05:14 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
real80sman Offline
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Registered: 05/16/02
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Loc: Ontario, Canada
Thanks guys! This really would be useful to me. The new house is completely finished, and it will be a pain to run speaker wires to the kitchen and back deck. It will convert my M3's into true "plug 'n play" speakers. Super high quality "wireless" sound, anywhere I want to place them!

The only other thing I would add would be a 1/8" input just in case I take them somewhere without wifi, OR, someone comes over with a non-apple product.
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Epic 80/600 + M3's + Custom Finish Algonquin V3's

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#383068 - 09/21/12 01:15 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
Amie Offline
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These suggestions are awesome; thanks to everyone who is weighing in!

So is the consensus that we need to be able to dock music players to the speakers? Rather than the simplicity of something along the lines of Airplay / Android's Player where you can whip out your phone or tablet, select a playlist, set it to play on these particular speakers, and then put your phone / tablet away again?
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Axiom Audio

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#383071 - 09/21/12 01:21 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
CatBrat Offline
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Registered: 08/05/09
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I no has a music player frown

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#383074 - 09/21/12 02:40 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
Ken.C Offline
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No no no no, I want Airplay/wireless music.
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#383086 - 09/21/12 03:59 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
tomtuttle Offline
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Registered: 06/20/03
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Loc: Tacoma
I think a "dock" is unnecessary.

However, if it doesn't add appreciably to the cost or complexity, I think that having a 1/8" analog input jack in addition to the Airplay and/or Bluetooth might make the device applicable to more applications and sources.

Or maybe that's already covered by the Audiobytes.

I have an Android phone, an iPad and PC's. If the device ONLY had Airplay, I probably wouldn't buy it since I'm not running an Apple router at my house. Ken/others: isn't it true that you need the Airplay/Airport router or an Apple TV to make this scenario work? That is, an iPhone, iPod or iPad wouldn't be enough to stream music to speakers like this, right?
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#383087 - 09/21/12 04:02 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
Ken.C Offline
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You do NOT need an Apple router to use an Airplay receiver such as one that would be found in this, in Denon/Marantz receivers, or in point of fact an Apple TV.

These speakers would have the Airplay receiver built into them and all you would need would be an Airplay-enabled source.
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#383088 - 09/21/12 04:12 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
real80sman Offline
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Registered: 05/16/02
Posts: 1124
Loc: Ontario, Canada
I may be in the minority, but I've never been a fan of docks. When you want to search or change songs, it's a pain having to walk over to the device. Plus the strain it puts on the connectors when you are pressing on the screen when drunk, can't be good. Definitely wifi, with a 1/8" jack for backup.
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Epic 80/600 + M3's + Custom Finish Algonquin V3's

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#383091 - 09/21/12 04:49 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
tomtuttle Offline
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Ken - Thanks. I really appreciate the clarification. That makes it much cooler.

So, you know, never mind. Go on about your business.
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#383092 - 09/21/12 04:49 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: real80sman]
pmbuko Offline
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Exactly. Like this commercial clearly illustrates, the dock is dead.
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#383093 - 09/21/12 04:59 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
Amie Offline
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Yowza! That thing is SMALL!
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Axiom Audio

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#383095 - 09/21/12 05:19 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
CatBrat Offline
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The new iPhone 5 is thinner and has a new unique plug that doesn't fit in any of the docks anymore.

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#383097 - 09/21/12 05:30 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
Murph Offline
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Registered: 10/05/06
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Loc: PEI, Canada
No dock please.
Another Axiom dock party? YES!!
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#383102 - 09/21/12 06:39 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
St_PatGuy Offline
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Registered: 03/07/05
Posts: 7405
Loc: Glendale, Arizona
Originally Posted By: Amie
Yowza! That thing is SMALL!


I sure hope Ian doesn't check in on this thread. . . .



Awkward.


Edited by St_PatGuy (09/21/12 06:41 PM)
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#383103 - 09/21/12 06:48 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: St_PatGuy]
Ian Offline
President
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Fortunately she was not referring to one of my products.
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#383104 - 09/21/12 06:52 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
St_PatGuy Offline
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Registered: 03/07/05
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Loc: Glendale, Arizona
Well played, sir.


laugh
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#383110 - 09/21/12 07:34 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
tomtuttle Offline
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Nice work, everyone. laugh
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#383111 - 09/21/12 07:42 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

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Even though I'm not in the market for an Airplay speaker, I'm definitely interested in Axiom making one. Wrong side of Canada, I know, but I still suggest calling it/them the Chinook(s).

Does anyone here have first-hand experience with the Jawbone Jambox, out of curiosity?

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#383166 - 09/23/12 01:16 AM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
CV Offline
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Amie and Ian, have you guys tried and compared any of the existing top-rated options for Airplay speakers? I imagine you would include that as a part of your research, give you an idea of what works and what doesn't, and where to set the bar at whatever price point you're shooting for.

I think I'd hope for something drastically different in design from any of Axiom's other speakers, just because it's looking to satisfy a specific demand in a seemingly already competitive space. As in, even though stereo separation is amazing, I'd still consider a single-unit design. If nothing else, have something that fits together but can be easily pulled apart.

I know I'm an Amazon.com whore and have already mentioned how much I think their Prime shipping helps sell products to me, but this would be a good Axiom product to trial that with. I think a well-reviewed Axiom Airplay speaker with Prime shipping would give Axiom enough visibility to interest people in other speakers in the Axiom line. Being legendarily impatient, the shipping speed is one of the biggest niggles for me when ordering Axiom products. Even if the only Axiom products being offered with Prime shipping were the smaller items, I think I'd order more frequently. For example, ordering from Blue Jeans Cable is convenient because they're based in Washington, and it usually takes two business days for me to receive my order from them. One to complete the order, and one for shipping. With Amazon.com's Prime shipping, Axiom could suddenly compete for my money on accessories like cables/adapters/etc. I'm sure the price would have to be slightly higher than Axiom offers on their own site, but I'd personally find it worth it for the fast processing time and shipping speed.

Maybe I went too far on that tangent. I dream of it often, though. Ha ha.

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#383175 - 09/23/12 01:13 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
Ken.C Offline
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I really think single unit is the wrong way to go. Axiom has an opportunity here to create a great sounding pair of extension speakers. The boombox avenue has been covered, extensively, by other manufacturers. The trick with stereo, of course, is getting a different signal to both speakers wirelessly. I don't know how that would work.
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#383178 - 09/23/12 01:16 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Ken.C]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7047
Loc: Canada
You put your speakers on the network as lefty and righty?
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#383182 - 09/23/12 02:05 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8290
Loc: Tacoma
I think Ken is right relative to market differentiation. But I still want both possibilities.

I don't see how you could do it without having one "master" speaker with the amp and electronics in it and a speaker wire running to the other speaker.

I'd rather have that connection use plain old speaker wire and connections rather than some kind of jack.

You could have a switch on the back to use the master speaker either in mono or in stereo with another speaker attached.

That scenario would allow the second, slave speaker to be an existing M2 or M3, which might offer some advantage for existing customers. If you already have a pair of bookshelf speakers, you could buy only the smart speaker and use one of your existing speakers.

This would also allow people to more easily upgrade; buy the airplay M3 first and then add a single M3 later to complete the stereo pair.

So, it could just be one, new product. Offer the AirPlay M3 and the Algonquin AirPlay M3.
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#383183 - 09/23/12 02:07 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: tomtuttle]
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
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Excellent idea.

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#383185 - 09/23/12 03:19 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
real80sman Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/16/02
Posts: 1124
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Excellent job, Tom. I don't think having the slave speaker wired is a deal breaker. But, for those who absolutely need the slave wireless, there is still the issue of L/R. I don't think iTunes software is setup for it. What if the master Airplay speaker had WiFi, AND Bluetooth connectivity? You could have a small add-on amplified bluetooth receiver for the slave speaker. (And have that nifty bolt I was talking about.)
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Epic 80/600 + M3's + Custom Finish Algonquin V3's

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#383191 - 09/23/12 04:57 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
terzaghi Offline
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Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 4848
Loc: Tulsa, Oklahoma
I don't have much to add other than I am excited to see what comes out from axiom once again
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#383192 - 09/23/12 05:10 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: real80sman]
chesseroo Offline
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Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 4829
Loc: western canada
Originally Posted By: real80sman
Plus the strain it puts on the connectors when you are pressing on the screen when drunk, can't be good.

Spoken with experience!!
grin
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#383207 - 09/23/12 09:13 PM Need help with amplifier options for my system [Re: Amie]
Alfonso Offline
regular

Registered: 09/23/12
Posts: 7
I currently own an Axiom pair of M60’s tower speakers, Axiom QS4 surround speakers and Axiom VP 150 center channel. I am considering ordering a Marantz MM7055 5-Channel Power Amplifier and Marantz’s AV7005 preamp/Processor ($2,700 for the combo). Is this a good choice for my Axiom home theater speakers? Is it good for audio listening? Is the Marantz MM7055 5-Channel Power Amplifier powerful enough to move the M60’s?
I also have the choice of buying a used Creston CNAMPX-7X200 amplifier ($1,500). Is this a better choice than the Marantz combo?
My budget is around $2,700 for amp and preamp in case of better suggestions. Please advice, thanks
Alfonso

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#383211 - 09/23/12 09:47 PM Re: Need help with amplifier options for my system [Re: Alfonso]
pmbuko Offline
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Registered: 04/02/03
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Alfonso, you should post a new topic with your question. What you have just done is called "thread-hijacking" -- changing the subject on an existing active discussion.
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#383212 - 09/23/12 09:48 PM Re: Need help with amplifier options for my system [Re: Amie]
Ken.C Offline
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Granted, that's got a long and storied history around here, but generally we threadjack in, well, sillier ways.
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#383233 - 09/24/12 08:58 AM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
pmbuko Offline
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#383236 - 09/24/12 09:39 AM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: pmbuko]
Amie Offline
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Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 1620
Interesting about the lack of dock - I wonder if that's hedging because of the new Apple connector (the iPhone 5 doesn't use the standard 30-pin connector, right?) It's really good looking unit, and if you describe it with an accent it sounds very posh indeed!
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Axiom Audio

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#383245 - 09/24/12 04:02 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
rprice54 Offline
old hand

Registered: 10/16/09
Posts: 88
Loc: North Georgia
There are Android apps that can stream to AirPlay speakers.
http://m.gizmodo.com/5883721/the-top-7-android-music-apps-for-apple-airplay

There are also windows and Mac software to stream from desktop computers to AirPlay speakers (Airfoil)- so I don't think making an airplay speaker would seriously limit your audience to just Apple people. I was shopping AVRs recently and it seems everyone except Onkyo is building in AirPlay functionality.

Definitely no dock. I want to control the music from the phone/device in my pocket. Gotta love the clean, no dock, no controls look. Plus docks only tie you down even further to a specific device/brand.

What about a ported VP 150ish kind of design? I would put that in my living room. Maybe a hair less wide for WAF.

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#383246 - 09/24/12 04:16 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
tomtuttle Offline
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Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8290
Loc: Tacoma
I think the B&W models in that video are hideous.
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#383247 - 09/24/12 04:45 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
pmbuko Offline
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Registered: 04/02/03
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Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
I found a product (slated for October 2012 release) from a Swedish company called Nocs that could possibly resemble what people are wanting from Axiom:

http://www.nocs.se/collections/speakers/products/ns2-air-monitors

This is a stereo pair of speakers with integrated class D amp. Because the set includes a pair of speaker cables (one is 3m long, the other 1.25 m long), I'm guessing one speaker serves as the receiver and the cable is just used to send one channel to the other speaker.
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#383265 - 09/25/12 10:32 AM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: pmbuko]
Ian Offline
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Registered: 03/13/01
Posts: 808
I want to start out with a big thanks to everyone who has been participating in this process. It is a very fun way to create a new product. From all the information supplied so far I think we are looking at two distinct products: a high-quality pair of indoor speakers, and a high quality portable system.

Starting with the indoor pair we are looking at doing the following based on the M3:

1. A powerful internal amplifier that runs off the wall socket with no wall-wart. The amplifier will be an Axiom-worthy 150 watts (the 20 watt market seems saturated already and not conducive to the level of quality sound we are going after with this product).

2. On the rear of the M3 we’re picturing a selector switch for Right, Left, and Mono. The mono setting is for those places where you can live without stereo separation. Frankly having the right and left channel side-by-side, as is the case in many current offerings, is virtually no different than just blending the right and left into a single speaker (In a somewhat ironic side note: the advantage to a side-by-side right and left speaker is the added effect of the comb filtering. . . a phenomenon that I would be one of a handful of designers to call an advantage).

3. We will also have right and left RCA inputs, an Ethernet input, and of course a reset button on the rear panel.

There is also another possibility here which we may need to get through the pricing stage for anyone to give us an opinion about, but we could have a version or perhaps a selection on the switch for a slave M3. This would mean only needing the Airplay receiver and amplifier in one of the speakers and then running a speaker wire to the other. It would be 75 watts per channel in this case and there would be a speaker output on the rear to go to the slave. This would bring the price of a pair down dramatically.

The other model would be a portable unit which I will give a brief description of here but will also get some renderings drawn up and posted here for a real detailed discussion point:
1. It will run on 12 volts with a brick in the power cord and a lighter socket cable.
2. It will have an optional rechargeable battery pack. I am thinking about 4 to 8 hours of use is needed on the battery between charges assuming normal listening levels.
3. It will have a centre-mounted 6.5” sub-woofer flanked by two 4” two-ways. The 4” two-ways will be detachable with retractable speaker cables built in for full stereo separation when desired.
4. The total power will be 150 watts.

Please let me have your thoughts on these two directions for the new Axiom Airplay products.
_________________________
Ian Colquhoun
President & Chief Engineer

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#383266 - 09/25/12 11:28 AM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
Ken.C Offline
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Loc: NoVA
Ian,

Are you able to feed L/R separately from Airplay so as to have two completely wireless (aside from power) speakers? Otherwise, it would have to be the slave M3 option, correct?
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#383267 - 09/25/12 11:55 AM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Ken.C]
Ian Offline
President
aficionado

Registered: 03/13/01
Posts: 808
It is no problem to send the left and right separately. We actually send both channels of information to each speaker and then you would use the switch on the back to make one right and the other left.
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Ian Colquhoun
President & Chief Engineer

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#383268 - 09/25/12 11:59 AM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
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Why didn't any of us think of that?
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#383269 - 09/25/12 12:05 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
Murph Offline
axiomite

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 6833
Loc: PEI, Canada
clap clap clap clap clap
(was too lazy to find a clapping emote.)
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#383278 - 09/25/12 04:27 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8290
Loc: Tacoma
Hey, Murph's got the claps!

I recognize that I may be wrong or in the minority on this, but I like the slave M3 idea an awful lot, especially since it would make the overall system cheaper. The second speaker would always need SOME kind of cord (either a power cord or a speaker cable). So, the only thing that the extra cost buys you is plugging it into a wall outlet instead of into the other (master) speaker.
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#383280 - 09/25/12 04:36 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: tomtuttle]
pmbuko Offline
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If you used regular speaker wire from the "master" AirPlay M3, a slave M3 could be an existing M3, correct?
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#383281 - 09/25/12 04:38 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
Ken.C Offline
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I'd much rather not have to string more speaker wire. Here's the thing about power: the really ugly stuff is already in the wall. You could even put some outlets high up in the wall.

Then again, I guess if you were going to that trouble, you could just run speaker cable behind the wall.

Please ignore the crazy guy arguing with himself.


Edited by Ken.C (09/25/12 04:39 PM)
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#383282 - 09/25/12 05:00 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8290
Loc: Tacoma
Peter, that's what I was thinking.

Ken, that's what I was thinking.
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#383283 - 09/25/12 05:00 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: tomtuttle]
Ian Offline
President
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Registered: 03/13/01
Posts: 808
There is also the drop in power per channel from 150 watts to 75 watts when using a slave speaker as opposed to two active ones. A regular M3 would be perfect for the slave.
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Ian Colquhoun
President & Chief Engineer

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#383284 - 09/25/12 05:09 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8290
Loc: Tacoma
Maybe one switch for Left - Right - Mono

and one switch for External amplifier On - Off

Use the first switch to also designate which channel content to send to the slave.
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#383290 - 09/25/12 07:43 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
michael_d Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 3904
Loc: Up yonder
I think there might be a really good market segment that would buy surrounds with this tech.......

Some nice discrete and paintable, flat power cords would be nice as well.
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#383292 - 09/25/12 07:51 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
Ken.C Offline
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The problem with that, Mike, is that the Airplay protocol itself doesn't really support surround speakers; it takes stereo output from computers or mobile devices and transmits that.
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#383331 - 09/26/12 02:32 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
michael_d Offline
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Registered: 07/23/04
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Loc: Up yonder
Sounds like a challenge to me Ken.... It'll keep Ian busy.
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#383340 - 09/26/12 04:28 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
rprice54 Offline
old hand

Registered: 10/16/09
Posts: 88
Loc: North Georgia
Ian, I like the idea of a modular system. For those of us who don't want to run wires I guess the other option would be to buy two of the wireless units- I know iTunes/Airfoil on the computer side can send to multiple speakers at once.

I wonder what a single M3 would sound like in a moderately sized living room, it would definitely help keep costs down for those of us just looking for a convenient compact/background music solution. Just for fun, what about two drivers on either side of the tweeter like the VP100? I guess once you guys develop the Amp/control panel it could be adapted to other speakers. I'm envisioning wireless, in wall, M3s. Just run a line of 120 to it, wire it directly in, and you have the ultimate in-wall self contained wireless living room setup. A little more drywall work and you run regular speaker wire to the second in-wall unit. That I would buy today if it were available.

What about wireless Airplay EPIC 800 subwoofers!!! Sorry, I'm one of those guys always asking for a little more...

On a slightly more serious note, if you're talking about the M3s, an outdoor waterproof speaker with it's own amplifier to drive it and another would be super cool. I wouldn't have to drill a hole through my brick/concrete walled house to get wires from my Amp in the basement out to the deck. I've already done it, but looked really hard for a quality outdoor wireless setup (there aren't any out there, I checked). Airplay outdoor M3s would have been an easy choice. I'm guessing moisture control would be a huge issue though.

Man, there I go spending more money in my head...

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#383341 - 09/26/12 04:41 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: rprice54]
pmbuko Offline
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Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16280
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
Originally Posted By: rprice54
I know iTunes/Airfoil on the computer side can send to multiple speakers at once.
You are correct, and you can even adjust the output levels between speakers to adjust for room reinforcement. This feature only works with iTunes. iPhones, iPads, and other devices can only send to a single AirPlay device.
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#383357 - 09/26/12 08:19 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Ian]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7047
Loc: Canada
Those two models sound like a good place to start. I could see a pair of M3s as a set of mobile 'around the house speakers. Put them in the kitchen when you are in there. Move them to the deck when you entertain out there. Move them to the shop when you are working on a project.

Well, ok, they might not go loud enough when Mahk gets all his power tools going at once. grin

I could see the portable version being a great student speaker. Depends on price point though.
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-------
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#383369 - 09/26/12 09:10 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
SirQuack Offline
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Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13337
Loc: Iowa
Slightly off topic, but I would like Axiom to come out with something like portable powered Orbit.

_________________________
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M22-OWM22-VP100-Denon2805
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#383374 - 09/27/12 12:16 AM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: SirQuack]
pmbuko Offline
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Registered: 04/02/03
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Seriously?
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#383386 - 09/27/12 08:08 AM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
Murph Offline
axiomite

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 6833
Loc: PEI, Canada
What Peter said.
But add something funny to it. I'm too tired to be funny.

Seriously though, the small, portable, ok to miserable sounding dock market is saturated. If Axiom wants to sell these things, they need to stick with what they do best. Excellent sound equalled by excellent bang for your buck.

Still, what you want is what you want. Your view is as good as any of ours, just different so it warrants discussion. That's what we are here for.
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#383401 - 09/27/12 11:54 AM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8290
Loc: Tacoma
Seriously, Murph? THAT'S what you're here for?!?!

I'm here to mock JP whenever possible and learn how to be a better human being from Jack.

I agree with Murph, though. I don't think a small, cheap, single-driver thingy is really in Axiom's wheelhouse.

I'm much more excited about the AirPlay+Slave M3 idea than I am about the detachable boombox concept. I guess I'd need to see it.

One of the other uses for either of these things would be to provide quality sound to a system where there is only a TV (doing the switching) and some video components. Eliminating the necessity of a receiver would make "typical" (i.e. non-Axiomoe) installations much simpler. I'd rather have a pair of M3's than a soundbar.
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#383405 - 09/27/12 12:09 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: tomtuttle]
medic8r Offline
axiomite

Registered: 02/05/06
Posts: 6396
Loc: Fredericksburg, Virginia
Originally Posted By: tomtuttle
I'm here to mock JP whenever possible and learn how to be a better human being from Jack.

Ah, so I am the bad object and Jack is the good. Melanie Klein would have had a field day with you ...

wink
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#383406 - 09/27/12 12:21 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8290
Loc: Tacoma
Swing and a miss, brother.
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#383407 - 09/27/12 12:27 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
Amie Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 1620
Timely article in the Audiophile Review this morning about setting your iTunes for high-res output:

http://audiophilereview.com/cd-dac-digital/itunes-and-hi-rez.html
_________________________
Amie Colquhoun
Axiom Audio

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#383409 - 09/27/12 01:07 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
Boltron Offline
veteran

Registered: 11/18/11
Posts: 171
Loc: Toronto
I get high def versions for all my music now (whenever possible). 24 bit 96/192K does make a noticeable difference in sound I find. I don't use Apple however, I go to HDtracks.
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#383410 - 09/27/12 01:14 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
medic8r Offline
axiomite

Registered: 02/05/06
Posts: 6396
Loc: Fredericksburg, Virginia
Tom has taken his mockery to Facebook, I see.

Wait, I probably shouldn't draw attention to that. Especially not to Ray3. Even though his Spidey sense is probably tingling.
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"The Universe is the game of the self, which plays hide and seek forever and ever" - Alan Watts

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#383411 - 09/27/12 01:20 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10901
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So, I did a Google search for "ralph malph mock" to see if I could find a video clip, and the third result was interesting.

What? Am I the only one who gets the reference?
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#383412 - 09/27/12 01:22 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
Amie Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 1620
That's just crazy!!!
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Amie Colquhoun
Axiom Audio

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#383413 - 09/27/12 01:39 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8290
Loc: Tacoma
Good heavens. And you all said posting here would never amount to anything. Mark is now Google-famous.
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#383414 - 09/27/12 02:16 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: tomtuttle]
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10901
Loc: Central NH
Originally Posted By: tomtuttle
Good heavens. And you all said posting here would never amount to anything. Mark is now Google-famous.

Actually, it was that all of them said that I, specifically, would never amount to anything. True Dat!

Sadder, though, is Don Most's legacy. Evidently, I'm the only one who remembers the episode.

Does it drive you people up the wall that I've never seen the Princess Bride but remember Happy Days episodes? grin
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#383415 - 09/27/12 02:42 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
medic8r Offline
axiomite

Registered: 02/05/06
Posts: 6396
Loc: Fredericksburg, Virginia
Well, at least if your electronics ever go on the fritz, you'll know how to do the Fonzi bump to get them working again.
_________________________
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#383416 - 09/27/12 02:46 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
Ken.C Offline
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Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17782
Loc: NoVA
Hint: don't try the Fonzi bump on a hard drive array.
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#383417 - 09/27/12 03:40 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10901
Loc: Central NH
NOW you tell me, Ken.
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#383421 - 09/27/12 06:26 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13337
Loc: Iowa
yes, actually seriously. when camping and enjoying a cold one, I'm tired of bringing my AC powered speakers to plug into the camper. The orbits actually have decent sound, suppose I can spend my money there.
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#383423 - 09/27/12 08:09 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: MarkSJohnson]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16280
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
Originally Posted By: MarkSJohnson
NOW you tell me, Ken.
Eeeeyyyyy!
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#383516 - 10/01/12 07:35 AM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
Murph Offline
axiomite

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 6833
Loc: PEI, Canada
"There are fixed points throughout time where things must stay exactly the way they are. This is not one of them, this is an opportunity. Whatever happens here will create its own timeline, its own reality, a temporal tipping point. The future revolves around you, here, now, so do good!"

The Doctor on Axiom Airplay Speakers.
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#383524 - 10/01/12 11:43 AM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
ClubNeon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/06/09
Posts: 3448
Loc: Western Maryland, USA
Oh, now DTS has entered the WiFi streaming arena, and they're developing their solution for Android.

http://www.playfiaudio.com/
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Axiom M22s, VP150, QS8s
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#383662 - 10/04/12 02:09 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8290
Loc: Tacoma
Hey, here's a neat little $16 gadget from (where else) Monoprice.

Bluetooth Music Receiver

Quote:
The Bluetooth Music Receiver connects to the Line-In or Aux input on your home audio system. You can then stream audio from your Bluetooth enabled cell phone or MP3 player to your home audio system. Enjoy the convenience of having your music source in the palm of your hand and listening to it through your home stereo.

Features:

-Connects to Aux input on home audio system
-Bluetooth support for all Bluetooth equipment with A2DP audio streaming
-USB A female port for powering the receiver from any USB power source
-Will work with iPhone OS 4.2.1 or Later
-Compatible with all Bluetooth devices that support media audio, including iPad and iPad 2


Looks like you can power it as a wall-wart or via USB, and it has a 3.5mm stereo minijack output (but includes the cable for stereo RCA).

Hmmmmmm.
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#384263 - 10/17/12 03:35 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
Andrew Offline
Axiom Engineer
veteran

Registered: 12/18/01
Posts: 176
Just a quick update on where we are currently and what we a pursuing:

As you can imagine, there are a seemingly endless number of possibilities for system configurations, sizes, features, and levels of performance possible with any system that looks to free up wires. What comes with that freedom is the difficulty in narrowing down the options into something both feasible and desirable to the purchasing public.
Our first step toward developing any AirPlay capable product is to secure a workable hardware package and the required licensing that goes along with that search. We are speaking to a number of approved development partners and hope to begin work on the hardware side soon.
On the product side, I admit to initially having missed the fact the Apple has decided not to "allow" multiple device streams to be sent from their portable iDevices. This is really a shame and limits the desirability of our initially conceived L/R/Mono solution, in my opinion. During testing in the lab I have also discovered some minor latency issues between multiple AirPlay sources and a "catch-up" period for the two channels to sync after a network dropout. All of these discoveries have me leaning toward the powered airplay speaker + M3 slave idea, which will also be a significantly less expensive option. We are also looking at the complete "portable" stereo-in-one model which could be available with or without battery power supply.
The time consuming portion of the development of these products is going to be out of our hands, to a certain extent, as we have to involve development and licensing parties, but rest assured we'll keep you posted as we proceed.

Thank you for your input!

Andrew

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#384269 - 10/17/12 04:47 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
spish Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 02/19/07
Posts: 32
Not sure if this has already come up, but please address planned obsolescence in your airplay product. If you plan on adding a lighting or dock connector please make it modular such that the device can be dock or lighting compatible. This would also allow for other types of connections down the road. Axiom is quality product and as such should last a long time. It would be a shame to have to toss it out or leave it aside because some other manufacturer decides to change their spec, again.

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#384943 - 10/31/12 04:30 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16280
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
So JBL just came to market with an interesting product: SoundFly

An interesting feature of this product is what they call AnyStream -- you can sync up to four devices so they all play the same stream in different rooms.
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#386517 - 12/03/12 06:44 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8290
Loc: Tacoma
So, Paradigm has a powered speaker - Shift A2

However, they want you to plug an Airport Express into the built-in AC outlet on the back of the speaker.
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#386524 - 12/03/12 08:07 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
rprice54 Offline
old hand

Registered: 10/16/09
Posts: 88
Loc: North Georgia
Cool- except the airport express is no longer a wall wart. It's a box with a power cord like the Apple TV. A lttle clumsy in my opinion, although I guess it passes some of the cost to the end user. What they need is a powered USB port to charge the attached mobile devices.

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#391038 - 03/16/13 02:21 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8290
Loc: Tacoma
So, what's up?
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#391050 - 03/16/13 05:29 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: tomtuttle]
Ian Offline
President
aficionado

Registered: 03/13/01
Posts: 808
Hi tomtuttle,

We are in that lengthy design phase now where we take all the information we have received and work through all the nitty-gritty details to end up with a final design and cost. Give us another month or so and I think we will have lots to report.

Cheers,
_________________________
Ian Colquhoun
President & Chief Engineer

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#391079 - 03/17/13 12:15 AM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8290
Loc: Tacoma
Great news, Ian! Thanks!
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#394520 - 06/24/13 12:26 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8290
Loc: Tacoma
I guess this is my quarterly ping. How goes the nitty and the gritty?

Are you going to use the new 6.5" woofer in the AxiomAir?
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#394585 - 06/26/13 02:00 AM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: tomtuttle]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10398
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Originally Posted By: tomtuttle
I guess this is my quarterly ping. How goes the nitty and the gritty?

Are you going to use the new 6.5" woofer in the AxiomAir?


I see you are getting a head start on the speaker naming contest.
Axiom FreeAir
_________________________
Jason
-----------------
TTTHHHPPPPPTTTT!

My HT

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#396596 - 08/28/13 05:49 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
georgerogers42 Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 02/26/11
Posts: 21
Take the audiobytes and add airplay as one of the inputs to the amp.
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#397004 - 09/10/13 07:11 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: tomtuttle]
EFalardeau Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 08/27/07
Posts: 3270
Loc: Laval, Quebec, Canada
Any news on this? In the next year, I have 3-4 rooms to add music capabilities and M3/built-in-amp-and-wireless would provide a very attractive alternative to having to get new amps and airports and passing more wires through walls.
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#399111 - 12/04/13 04:18 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
rprice54 Offline
old hand

Registered: 10/16/09
Posts: 88
Loc: North Georgia
Bump. C'mon. Enough teasing already.

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#399178 - 12/10/13 01:52 AM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
MichaelTrottar Offline
old hand

Registered: 12/10/13
Posts: 84
I think having them as music rather than sat+sub is fairly important as far as mobility. I'd like to be able to shift them around the home. It's just too much of a stress.
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#402337 - 04/01/14 04:04 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
rprice54 Offline
old hand

Registered: 10/16/09
Posts: 88
Loc: North Georgia
It's been over a year since the last reply from Axiom. I'm guessing this project is DOA?

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#402341 - 04/01/14 07:32 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
exlabdriver Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/07/11
Posts: 1027
Considering the significant amount of great stuff that they've come out with in the past year or so, I'm amazed that they have time to work on anything else...

TAM

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#402386 - 04/02/14 07:19 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: exlabdriver]
Ian Offline
President
aficionado

Registered: 03/13/01
Posts: 808
We have been working on some very cool ideas for this product but until we verify they are actually going to work out successfully we kind of don’t want to talk about it too much. Give us a few more weeks and we may be ready to make an announcement about the direction we are headed.
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#404638 - 05/25/14 10:47 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8290
Loc: Tacoma
Bump?
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#404645 - 05/26/14 03:47 AM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: tomtuttle]
Ian Offline
President
aficionado

Registered: 03/13/01
Posts: 808
We are getting closer now but not quite ready to spill the beans on it as there are a few details still not decided.
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President & Chief Engineer

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#404646 - 05/26/14 04:06 AM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Ian]
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11208
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
Originally Posted By: Ian
We are getting closer now but not quite ready to spill the beans on it as there are a few details still not decided.


Hmm.... One detail is that it involves beans. That's a good sign, because they're the musical fruit!

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#404649 - 05/26/14 07:06 AM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
oakvillematt Offline
veteran

Registered: 05/06/14
Posts: 186
Loc: Oakville, Canada
You fool. I said a "Dart" gun.
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#404691 - 05/27/14 05:28 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
Cork Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/19/10
Posts: 76
Loc: Pennsylvania, US
I completely missed this thread - but I hope the new speaker is sealed and small. I'm going to need a small surround to go into a tight spot once my 20+ year old Advent-Minis die. So far my best bet was an NHT Super-Zero, but I'd rather move to all Axiom.

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#404756 - 05/28/14 04:54 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
cohesion Offline
local

Registered: 03/27/12
Posts: 216
Loc: Maple, Ontario, Canada
I am fairly certain that Ian was talking about coffee beans, not the kind known as the musical fruit. Anyway I was lucky enough to have a coffee with Ian and Debbie just yesterday after Debbie was pulled away from building something that might not have been a prototype for the new Wireless whatever-it-is to give me a tour of the plant.

So I take full responsibility for any further delay in the release of that Wwii. (Potential new product name?)

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#406330 - 07/25/14 04:07 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
Listener Offline
local

Registered: 09/05/08
Posts: 269
Loc: CT, US
bump
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#406338 - 07/25/14 11:14 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: cohesion]
brwsaw Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 10/12/12
Posts: 1050
Originally Posted By: cohesion
might not have been a prototype for the new Wireless whatever-it-is.


Sounds like it was a good tour
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#406362 - 07/28/14 08:28 AM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: cohesion]
Murph Offline
axiomite

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 6833
Loc: PEI, Canada
Originally Posted By: cohesion
something that might not have been a prototype for the new Wireless whatever-it-is


One of my favorite Dilbert quotes.

"I don't know what that is but that looks like a great one of those."
.
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#406543 - 08/13/14 07:42 AM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Murph]
jmone Offline
veteran

Registered: 01/08/06
Posts: 158
Loc: Sydney Australia
I'm really looking forward to the Axiom Airplay... In the interim there was a local deal spilling the Pioneer A3 DLNA speakers cheap, and FYI here is my first impressions a posted on the JRiver Media Center site:

Quote:
Just arrived and setup. First impressions:
- Easy to setup with a wired connection first, then configured the wireless from Its web page
- Updated Firware just fine
- Works on Wireless just fine
- Supports LCPM @ 2ch at 44.1 or 48hz (setup a profile in MC and associted it with the speaker)

Audio quality is "OK". Certainly not a high fidelity box, more of a small room or workshop quality as it gets quite boomy at high volumes (and you need that to get reasonable sound pressure levels... and even then it will never fill a large space).... but this is what I would expect from a $125 setup.

I've not had a chance to test how it goes with Sync in a multi room setup (I've had all sorts of probs with mutltiple devices getting out of sync).

There is also a Android (and iOS) app but why bother, as remotes like Gizmo/EOS controls it all.

Verdict? For A$125 (US$110) it is a great buy as you get
- DLNA Connectivity to MC & Control from Remote Apps (Gizmo, EOS etc)
- Battery Operated
- Wired / Wireless Support
- Acceptable sound quality for casual listening.

The original price was $400... and at that price point it would be overpriced.
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#406704 - 08/19/14 09:47 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
Listener Offline
local

Registered: 09/05/08
Posts: 269
Loc: CT, US
Chirp Chirp...
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#406902 - 08/29/14 07:20 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
brwsaw Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 10/12/12
Posts: 1050
Originally Posted By: Amie
Here's your chance to help us design the perfect speaker! We think there is a need on the market today for a pair of audiophile-quality Airplay-enabled speakers, for people who like both great sound and easy-to-use products.

We're intrigued by the possibility of creating an Airplay Speaker that allows for easy interfacing with an iTunes account running anywhere on your home network.

We’ve been tossing ideas around internally, but we would really love to hear what you are looking for in a networked speaker. Do you think it's enough to be Airplay-enabled only, or do you think Android is where it's at and that we need to look at a speaker solution that supports both MAC and Android operating systems? What about Bluetooth?

How important is portability to you? Is it enough to have a pair of speakers you could just plug into a wall outlet anywhere in the range of your Wifi network that would stream music from your iTunes, or do you want something with a battery pack so that you can take it outside with you?

Stereo, or single speaker solution?

We’d love to hear your thoughts – help us design the perfect speaker!


I'm not familiar with Airplay but I am interested in a portable unit with Axiom branding, are there any tidbits you can share while we wait?
You must be (hopefully) very busy with sales, I look forward to seeing what you come up with next.

Blair
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#407082 - 09/08/14 11:20 AM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
Murph Offline
axiomite

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 6833
Loc: PEI, Canada
I was ready to buy a portable solution this summer for my deck. My wife wasn't ready for Algonquins as there are none to few inconspicuous places to put them. It's also a harsh environment with a north or nor east wind bringing a ton of salt spray that eats away at, well, everything.

I was hopefully holding out for an Axiom solution I could support but the summer is waning. Hopefully by next spring there will be something to try out as I'll probably break down and get something else. This summer was crazy so there was a reprieve.

It will be a tough market though as there are a lot of options now so hopefully they are planning something worth the wait.
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#407098 - 09/09/14 08:53 AM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Murph]
Ian Offline
President
aficionado

Registered: 03/13/01
Posts: 808
Hi Murph,

I think you will find it was worth the wait. We will be posting some further information on the Axiom Play wireless platform later today or tomorrow for everyone's input.
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President & Chief Engineer

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#407099 - 09/09/14 09:33 AM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17782
Loc: NoVA
Contractually required to wait until after the Apple event, eh? wink
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#407100 - 09/09/14 10:06 AM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
CatBrat Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 5872
Loc: Milky Way Galaxy
I'd prefer one with a fish tank front with some guppies swimming around in it.

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#407104 - 09/09/14 11:16 AM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10901
Loc: Central NH
Brian, your cats have signed onto your Axiom account again.
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#407117 - 09/10/14 11:18 AM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Ian]
Andrew Offline
Axiom Engineer
veteran

Registered: 12/18/01
Posts: 176
AxiomPlay Wireless Platform

We are finally far enough along with our hardware and firmware prototyping to begin outlining and discussing our new AxiomPlay wireless platform. The term platform is important as our plan is to employ this new technology within a number of different systems from an all-in-one single speaker system with battery power that can be used both indoors and outdoors to active desktop speakers, stereo pre-amps, and a module that can be installed during production in any of our existing speaker models. We will be starting with the bookshelf models and adding the others as we make the necessary circuitry to employ higher powered amplifiers. The current amplifier is 75 watts RMS per channel.

Much of our time over the past year (or two) was dedicated to evaluating and assessing the various systems already in the marketplace and the streaming technologies available. As many of you know, we originally intended to design a dedicated Airplay speaker, which would use a specific hardware platform. Our research suggested that this would be far too limiting for most people, many of whom do not own iDevices and prefer Android and other platforms. Thus began a search for how best to offer the widest range of device compatibility. At the end of all this work, and looking forward to the potential for new technologies, we decided that a fixed hardware system would be too limiting and decided to use an SoC (system on chip) based microcomputer to perform the various streaming and interface functions. Strapped to this embedded system is a high-quality, stereo DAC (digital to analog converter) capable of native playback up to 24bit/192kHz.

Now, without further ado, here is the current feature list:

WiFi and Ethernet network connectivity.
Wireless WiFi hotspot for use outdoors and anywhere that a WiFi network is not available.
Direct streaming from smartphone/tablet/computer via UPnP.
Direct streaming via Airplay.
Playback from attached USB sticks or USB hard drives.
Playback from NAS.
Playback of internet radio stations.
Web-based GUI for setup, playback control, and volume (USB/NAS/Internet Radio).

We are also working on allowing multiple AxiomPlay devices to be named and controlled from any network connected device with a web browser, allowing a simple to configure and use whole-home audio system.

As always, your input and suggestions are extremely valuable as we move forward with this exciting project!


Edited by Andrew (09/10/14 11:26 AM)

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#407123 - 09/10/14 02:36 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Andrew]
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11208
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
I don't have any valuable feedback at the moment, but I'll just say, wow, that's ambitious, and I could certainly see taking advantage of this platform.

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#407130 - 09/10/14 07:27 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8290
Loc: Tacoma
Andrew, I think you've stunned everyone into silence.

I'm with Charles, "ambitious" is what came to mind. Y'all are nerds.

I think that (unlike Ray), I may have reached the point in my life where technology has become sufficiently difficult to keep up with that I don't try as hard to do so. And there is so much paradigm shifting!

So, I guess the key question for me is, literally, how do you work this thing? I get the part about flinging stuff from my mobile device to the speakers - that part makes sense. What I'm having a hard time understanding is how to control playback when the content resides on a USB drive, NAS, etc. That whole "web based GUI" thing - and using it from a mobile device - is going to tell the tale for me.

I also don't really understand this:
Quote:
Wireless WiFi hotspot for use outdoors and anywhere that a WiFi network is not available.

Does this mean that even when I can't connect my AxiomPlay and my iPad (for instance) to the same wireless network that I will still be able to connect them to each other via wifi?

Good luck. Can't wait to see what you guys do next.


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#407134 - 09/11/14 12:50 AM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: tomtuttle]
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11208
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
Originally Posted By: tomtuttle
So, I guess the key question for me is, literally, how do you work this thing? I get the part about flinging stuff from my mobile device to the speakers - that part makes sense. What I'm having a hard time understanding is how to control playback when the content resides on a USB drive, NAS, etc. That whole "web based GUI" thing - and using it from a mobile device - is going to tell the tale for me.


Yeah, I think we'll all have a lot more to say when we see fuller explanations and maybe even videos of the products in action. Right now it's almost like there are too many possibilities, so it would be great to have a taste of something concrete. Curb stomp me!

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#407146 - 09/11/14 03:46 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Andrew]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16280
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
Wow! That's quite a feature list! I am impressed.
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#407147 - 09/11/14 03:48 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: tomtuttle]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16280
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
Originally Posted By: tomtuttle
I also don't really understand this:
Quote:
Wireless WiFi hotspot for use outdoors and anywhere that a WiFi network is not available.

Does this mean that even when I can't connect my AxiomPlay and my iPad (for instance) to the same wireless network that I will still be able to connect them to each other via wifi?

That's what I'm assuming. If you take it to a picnic, you won't necessarily have a network available, so the AxiomPlay device can create its own which your phone/pad can then join.
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#407154 - 09/12/14 02:49 AM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: tomtuttle]
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11208
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
Originally Posted By: tomtuttle
That whole "web based GUI" thing - and using it from a mobile device - is going to tell the tale for me.


I'm particularly curious about this piece of the puzzle. This seems like something that could make or break the experience, and I think it's probably the piece that will inspire the greatest amount of feedback. Useful feedback? I'm not sure, but I'm sure I'll speak up about what will make it better for me, specifically. Ha ha.

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#407157 - 09/12/14 08:36 AM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
Murph Offline
axiomite

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 6833
Loc: PEI, Canada
I'm liking it so far. It's just what I need. Kudos for not falling into the "only-i am good enough" trap! (Hey, can I copy-write that quote?)

Charles is likely correct. The GUI will make it or break it. I love betas and I'm willing to try early model software/hardware that needs improvement if (big if) it brings me something cutting edge. However, the mass market is often won over by 'ease of use'.

Will the device software be open source, allowing 'those who can,' to develop alternative controller Apps? Having someone develop a possibly even better App that shows up all of a sudden on Google Play or iTunes, is not a bad thing and can actually promote sales. I'm assuming that if your control app is web based, it will be easy to reverse engineer in any case.

I did not expect to see portable hot spot capability. Nice touch! I could use one of those tonight as I try to squeeze in one last bonfire for the season. My firepit is just beyond range of my house WLAN and we could use some quiet tunes for when the guitar folk get tired.

Tom, I will gladly come and set up your device for expenses and beer.
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#407194 - 09/13/14 10:43 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Murph]
chesseroo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 4829
Loc: western canada
Originally Posted By: Murph

Charles is likely correct. The GUI will make it or break it.

And stability.
Although Sonos recently updated their GUI and frankly it is less efficient than the previous one, the big thing is STABILITY.
When the system goes down, usually due to so many factors it makes getting the system running again one serious pain in the a$$.
Problems solving Sonos over time:
  • Windows Firewall (even though i have it turned off)
  • Installed firewall (Zonealarm- system works with it off, sometimes blocks when it is on, but won't block if i start ZA after Sonos system is running....???)
  • Router dropping IP addresses of Sonos components so they can't connect to the network (requires Sonos controller reset and sometimes a router power off and on)
  • Baby monitors (even the neighbor's) seriously blocks signal
  • If the app is running on another device while troubleshooting, you can't figure out why things still aren't working.
  • All peripherals and tablets must be updated to current versions of software and firmware or you get a headache trying to figure out why one unit connects and another doesn't.
  • Occasional and unexplained dropouts of the media folders connected from the NAS or central computer.
  • etc.
  • etc.
  • etc.


Edited by chesseroo (09/13/14 10:44 PM)
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#407195 - 09/14/14 01:22 AM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: chesseroo]
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11208
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
I always have issues with wireless anything, but for me, if the hard-wired options of ethernet and USB function correctly, I'll be happy.

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#407247 - 09/16/14 07:19 AM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
cohesion Offline
local

Registered: 03/27/12
Posts: 216
Loc: Maple, Ontario, Canada
Whole home audio, too! Very cool!

Need any beta testers? I have an existing wired and wifi network in my house with a file and multimedia server, laptops, tablets, and both Android and iPhone/iPad devices in my house. Not to mention two sets (so far) of Axiom speakers...

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#407372 - 09/22/14 06:43 AM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
jmone Offline
veteran

Registered: 01/08/06
Posts: 158
Loc: Sydney Australia
Andrew, the specs look good! Regarding your planned DLNA/UPnP implementation will it support:
- gapless playback (SetNextAVTransportURI), and
- For Synchronised Playback (Whole House / Multi Device) and you using the V2 DLNA additional expanded guidelines or antoher method?
- What Declared Audio Support do you plan, eg:
http-get:*:audio/L16;rate=44100;channels=1:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get:*:audio/L16;rate=44100;channels=2:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get:*:audio/L16;rate=48000;channels=1:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get:*:audio/L16;rate=48000;channels=2:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get:*:audio/mpeg:DLNA.ORG_PN=MP3
http-get:*:audio/x-ms-wma:DLNA.ORG_PN=WMABASE
http-get:*:audio/x-ms-wma:DLNA.ORG_PN=WMAFULL
http-get:*:audio/mp4:DLNA.ORG_PN=AAC_ISO
http-get:*:audio/3gpp:DLNA.ORG_PN=AAC_ISO
http-wavetunes:*:audio/x-ms-wma:*
http-get:*:audio/wav:*
http-get:*:audio/x-wav:*
http-get:*:audio/flac:*
http-get:*:audio/x-flac:*
http-get:*:audio/mp4:DLNA.ORG_PN=AAC_ISO_320
http-get:*:audio/3gpp:DLNA.ORG_PN=AAC_ISO_320
http-get:*:audio/vnd.dlna.adts:DLNA.ORG_PN=AAC_ADTS_320

Thanks
Nathan
_________________________
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#407373 - 09/22/14 07:53 AM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
wschwartz Online   content
old hand

Registered: 12/29/02
Posts: 60
Speaking of UPnP, I hope you will make certain that this feature is *not* exposed to the public internet, but instead strictly limited to the local network. Steve Gibson of grc.com provides perhaps the best advice (https://www.grc.com/su/UPnP-Rejected.htm):



Here's what you need to know about Universal Plug n' Play (UPnP):

UPnP is a “zero-authentication” (no passwords required) system for allowing networked devices to discover and easily connect with each other on a private local network.

Additionally, software such as Skype and BitTorrent, and gaming consoles, which wish to be “seen” on the Internet, are able to use UPnP to open “holes” through the protection normally provided by routers in order to allow “unsolicited” traffic to enter.

THE HUGE MISTAKE IS: No part of UPnP was EVER MEANT to be exposed to the EXTERNAL public Internet. It was only ever meant for private local control of devices and routers. Its exposure gives malicious hackers direct access to the inside of any exposed private network.



You probably know all this, but just in case...

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#407381 - 09/22/14 05:01 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: tomtuttle]
Andrew Offline
Axiom Engineer
veteran

Registered: 12/18/01
Posts: 176
Originally Posted By: tomtuttle
Andrew, I think you've stunned everyone into silence.

I'm with Charles, "ambitious" is what came to mind. Y'all are nerds.

I think that (unlike Ray), I may have reached the point in my life where technology has become sufficiently difficult to keep up with that I don't try as hard to do so. And there is so much paradigm shifting!

So, I guess the key question for me is, literally, how do you work this thing? I get the part about flinging stuff from my mobile device to the speakers - that part makes sense. What I'm having a hard time understanding is how to control playback when the content resides on a USB drive, NAS, etc. That whole "web based GUI" thing - and using it from a mobile device - is going to tell the tale for me.

I also don't really understand this:
Quote:
Wireless WiFi hotspot for use outdoors and anywhere that a WiFi network is not available.

Does this mean that even when I can't connect my AxiomPlay and my iPad (for instance) to the same wireless network that I will still be able to connect them to each other via wifi?

Good luck. Can't wait to see what you guys do next.




Apologies for the confusion Tom (and anyone else)!
Basically, as you point out, the flinging or "pushing" audio from another device where the audio files reside to AxiomPlay puts all control in the hands of that device, including volume.

If you want to play an audio file from a USB drive or your NAS, the WebUI (web user interface) is required in order to display the files as a library structure (using existing file tags), select which files to play and in what order (playlist functionality is included), start, stop, pause, and control volume. The same applies for internet radio where you can select a channel from a library and then start playback and adjust volume. The reason this must be done via the WebUI is that AxiomPlay is now acting as the SERVER for the files, so it must also be the controller.

The WiFi hotspot is a really neat feature and something we are very proud of. Many times someone will want to take their AxiomPlay portable speaker to the dock, away camping, or maybe even to the garage where a WiFi network is not available. With the built-in hotspot you can still playback from any device, or control AxiomPlay with the WebUI simply by connecting to the hotspot WiFi address! It also works in an "auto-fallback" mode so that if your home's WiFi network goes out for any reason, you can keep on streaming music from your phone or tablet.

We are planning to have a preliminary version of the WebUI on our site soon. This will allow you look at the layout and see how the display will render on your specific device.

Thanks,

Andrew

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#407382 - 09/22/14 05:02 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: pmbuko]
Andrew Offline
Axiom Engineer
veteran

Registered: 12/18/01
Posts: 176
Originally Posted By: pmbuko
Originally Posted By: tomtuttle
I also don't really understand this:
Quote:
Wireless WiFi hotspot for use outdoors and anywhere that a WiFi network is not available.

Does this mean that even when I can't connect my AxiomPlay and my iPad (for instance) to the same wireless network that I will still be able to connect them to each other via wifi?

That's what I'm assuming. If you take it to a picnic, you won't necessarily have a network available, so the AxiomPlay device can create its own which your phone/pad can then join.


Correct! And anyone can join it, so your friends can start streaming their files from their own devices!


Edited by Andrew (09/22/14 05:02 PM)

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#407383 - 09/22/14 05:08 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: jmone]
Andrew Offline
Axiom Engineer
veteran

Registered: 12/18/01
Posts: 176
Originally Posted By: jmone
Andrew, the specs look good! Regarding your planned DLNA/UPnP implementation will it support:
- gapless playback (SetNextAVTransportURI), and
- For Synchronised Playback (Whole House / Multi Device) and you using the V2 DLNA additional expanded guidelines or antoher method?
- What Declared Audio Support do you plan, eg:
http-get:*:audio/L16;rate=44100;channels=1:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get:*:audio/L16;rate=44100;channels=2:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get:*:audio/L16;rate=48000;channels=1:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get:*:audio/L16;rate=48000;channels=2:DLNA.ORG_PN=LPCM
http-get:*:audio/mpeg:DLNA.ORG_PN=MP3
http-get:*:audio/x-ms-wma:DLNA.ORG_PN=WMABASE
http-get:*:audio/x-ms-wma:DLNA.ORG_PN=WMAFULL
http-get:*:audio/mp4:DLNA.ORG_PN=AAC_ISO
http-get:*:audio/3gpp:DLNA.ORG_PN=AAC_ISO
http-wavetunes:*:audio/x-ms-wma:*
http-get:*:audio/wav:*
http-get:*:audio/x-wav:*
http-get:*:audio/flac:*
http-get:*:audio/x-flac:*
http-get:*:audio/mp4:DLNA.ORG_PN=AAC_ISO_320
http-get:*:audio/3gpp:DLNA.ORG_PN=AAC_ISO_320
http-get:*:audio/vnd.dlna.adts:DLNA.ORG_PN=AAC_ADTS_320

Thanks
Nathan


Hi Nathan,

We are still working on the final parameters, but I can say that gapless playback is supported and will likely be a preset that can be selected if desired.

The first version of AxiomPlay will not allow synchronisation, but the plan is to make that possible in a future release.

Pretty much all audio file formats can be played back, except for encoded multi-channel formats like Dolby Digital or DTS. We are still in the process of testing as many file formats as possible, and so far I have not run into a file type that has not played correctly.

Thanks!

Andrew

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#407384 - 09/22/14 05:09 PM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: wschwartz]
Andrew Offline
Axiom Engineer
veteran

Registered: 12/18/01
Posts: 176
Originally Posted By: wschwartz
Speaking of UPnP, I hope you will make certain that this feature is *not* exposed to the public internet, but instead strictly limited to the local network. Steve Gibson of grc.com provides perhaps the best advice (https://www.grc.com/su/UPnP-Rejected.htm):



Here's what you need to know about Universal Plug n' Play (UPnP):

UPnP is a “zero-authentication” (no passwords required) system for allowing networked devices to discover and easily connect with each other on a private local network.

Additionally, software such as Skype and BitTorrent, and gaming consoles, which wish to be “seen” on the Internet, are able to use UPnP to open “holes” through the protection normally provided by routers in order to allow “unsolicited” traffic to enter.

THE HUGE MISTAKE IS: No part of UPnP was EVER MEANT to be exposed to the EXTERNAL public Internet. It was only ever meant for private local control of devices and routers. Its exposure gives malicious hackers direct access to the inside of any exposed private network.



You probably know all this, but just in case...



For sure UPnP will be locked down and not accessible outside of your local network.

Thanks,

Andrew

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#407391 - 09/23/14 12:03 AM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8290
Loc: Tacoma
Nice work, Andrew.
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#407392 - 09/23/14 12:50 AM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Andrew]
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11208
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
What Tom said.

Originally Posted By: Andrew
We are planning to have a preliminary version of the WebUI on our site soon. This will allow you look at the layout and see how the display will render on your specific device.


Can't wait. I'm going to be merciless.

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#407393 - 09/23/14 07:51 AM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Amie]
Murph Offline
axiomite

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 6833
Loc: PEI, Canada
Oh no. Does this mean a return of the Medusa Hand Bag? The Humanity!!!!

Since i'm going to go on the well deserved assumption that this will sound good, the feature set sounds like exactly what I'm looking for Andrew. I'm looking forward to to it's release.
_________________________
With great power comes Awesome irresponsibility.

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#407408 - 09/24/14 06:52 AM Re: Designing The Axiom Airplay Speaker [Re: Andrew]
jmone Offline
veteran

Registered: 01/08/06
Posts: 158
Loc: Sydney Australia
Originally Posted By: Andrew

The first version of AxiomPlay will not allow synchronisation, but the plan is to make that possible in a future release.


Bummer, that is the part that is missing from all other DLNA devices on the market to date (well apart from sonic quality that I'm sure Axiom will deliver). In all my testing of DLNA devices, device drift is horrific and makes whole house audio unworkable. My understanding is that DLNA V2 spec allows this but needs a network based time clock that seems to have so far not been taken up by anyone.
Thanks
Nathan
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HT:M80s,VP150,QS8,EP500 Outside:2 Pair M3 1 Pair M22 Office:AudioBytes, Games Room: M60,VP150

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