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#389316 - 02/06/13 04:48 PM Opposed Subwoofer Design
INANE Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/04/04
Posts: 1665
Loc: Omaha, Nebraska
Curious what folks/Axiom think about opposed subwoofer design in general. Where you have two drivers in a single box on opposite sides of each other.
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#389321 - 02/06/13 06:43 PM Re: Opposed Subwoofer Design [Re: INANE]
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10878
Loc: Central NH
Ummmm....They're opposed?
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::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#389323 - 02/06/13 07:57 PM Re: Opposed Subwoofer Design [Re: MarkSJohnson]
turbo16v Offline
veteran

Registered: 01/19/08
Posts: 175
Loc: SkiUtah!
The Seaton submersive is thought by many to be one of the best subwoofers available at any price. It's dual opposed.


Edited by turbo16v (02/06/13 08:00 PM)

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#389326 - 02/06/13 08:08 PM Re: Opposed Subwoofer Design [Re: INANE]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13333
Loc: Iowa
I heard an Epik Empire once, crazy performance. Almost got a few of them over Axiom, will always wonder.

http://www.epiksubwoofers.com/products.html
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#389331 - 02/06/13 09:15 PM Re: Opposed Subwoofer Design [Re: INANE]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10398
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Wasn't the original Audiobytes sub an opposed driver system?
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#389336 - 02/06/13 10:09 PM Re: Opposed Subwoofer Design [Re: jakewash]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16273
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
Nope. The original Audiobyte sub (EPZero, which I have) is an isobaric sub.
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#389338 - 02/06/13 10:44 PM Re: Opposed Subwoofer Design [Re: INANE]
fredk Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7042
Loc: Canada
The design works just fine. I'm not sure that physics backs up the claim of vibration cancellation. I've heard it keeps the sub from jumping around if you are using two monster 18" drivers. grin
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#389342 - 02/07/13 05:16 AM Re: Opposed Subwoofer Design [Re: fredk]
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10878
Loc: Central NH
Originally Posted By: fredk
I've heard it keeps the sub from jumping around

What if I WANT them to
Jump around
Jump around
Jump around
Jump up Jump up and get down?
_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#389496 - 02/09/13 12:06 PM Re: Opposed Subwoofer Design [Re: INANE]
Andrew Offline
Axiom Engineer
veteran

Registered: 12/18/01
Posts: 172
Originally Posted By: INANE
Curious what folks/Axiom think about opposed subwoofer design in general. Where you have two drivers in a single box on opposite sides of each other.


Ah...a topic near and dear to my heart. If I am not mistaken, Mirage produced the first commercial subwoofer with an opposed woofer design with the drivers operated in phase with one another. This first model was the BPSS-210 and was originally designed for use in systems with the first Mirage bipolar speakers, the M-1 and M-3. This was in the very early days of home theatre and most of the original subs were sold with 2-channel systems. The design benefits behind opposed driver subwoofers are improved room loading from the multiple drivers and an almost complete cancellation of cabinet vibration. These designs are not gimmicks, they most certainly result in improved performance when well designed. I believe the main reason that we don't see more of them on the market is that the second (or third) driver(s) add significantly to the cost. One thing to watch are designs claiming to have force cancelling drivers where one driver is actually a passive radiator. In this case there will be no benefit in terms of reducing cabinet vibration. Interestingly enough, as Ian and I have been working on design ideas for the "v4" series of subwoofers we have been discussing the possibility of one or two models incorporating a balanced or force cancelling driver configuration. As with everything we do the designs would be evaluated strictly based on their performance versus the current models. Now is as good a time as any to throw the question out there: Is this type of design something that would interest you? wink

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#389500 - 02/09/13 01:27 PM Re: Opposed Subwoofer Design [Re: Andrew]
cohesion Offline
local

Registered: 03/27/12
Posts: 211
Loc: Maple, Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: Andrew
Originally Posted By: INANE
Curious what folks/Axiom think about opposed subwoofer design in general. Where you have two drivers in a single box on opposite sides of each other.


Ah...a topic near and dear to my heart. If I am not mistaken, Mirage produced the first commercial subwoofer with an opposed woofer design with the drivers operated in phase with one another. This first model was the BPSS-210 and was originally designed for use in systems with the first Mirage bipolar speakers, the M-1 and M-3. This was in the very early days of home theatre and most of the original subs were sold with 2-channel systems. The design benefits behind opposed driver subwoofers are improved room loading from the multiple drivers and an almost complete cancellation of cabinet vibration. These designs are not gimmicks, they most certainly result in improved performance when well designed. I believe the main reason that we don't see more of them on the market is that the second (or third) driver(s) add significantly to the cost. One thing to watch are designs claiming to have force cancelling drivers where one driver is actually a passive radiator. In this case there will be no benefit in terms of reducing cabinet vibration. Interestingly enough, as Ian and I have been working on design ideas for the "v4" series of subwoofers we have been discussing the possibility of one or two models incorporating a balanced or force cancelling driver configuration. As with everything we do the designs would be evaluated strictly based on their performance versus the current models. Now is as good a time as any to throw the question out there: Is this type of design something that would interest you? wink


Thanks Andrew for sharing a bit more about what you and Ian are currently considering for the v4 subs!

I for one am very interested in the new designs. I need a new sub now more than any other component! So how would a dual opposed sub be better than an EP800? Would it cost more?

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