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#391903 - 04/11/13 01:42 PM ADA1000 3ch vs XPA-3 vs three Outlaw M2200
TroyD Offline
devotee

Registered: 02/17/04
Posts: 302
Ok,

So I am getting my M80's soon. I have a friggin Pioneer VSX-1525-K ( sc-32 equiv. ) long story, but that's what I got class D amp.
I am also narrowed down my options, to the three in the subject.
Mainly, for movies, but an starting to watch Music video's.

So, wonder which is the better one as I've read Class A or A/B is best for Music. Class D if I am using for a PA system, which is not the case.

Outlaws are $1500
ADA-1000 will cost $1200
Emotiva will cost $977


Edited by troyd (04/11/13 01:56 PM)
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#391908 - 04/11/13 03:09 PM Re: ADA1000 3ch vs XPA-3 vs three Outlaw M2200 [Re: TroyD]
brwsaw Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 10/12/12
Posts: 1124
If you're planning on sitting in the same room as your M80's and don't have crazy friends who think clean sound means they should turn it up until there is distortion, you shouldn't need an amp.
I was told so many times and didn't believe it.
I did purchase a 4 channel ADA1000 because I wanted to.
We do listen to loud music while outside of the room and we have remote hungry friends who know how to party.
Most of the time we wouldn't come close to using the power in my receiver which has similar specs.
There are times when my HT gets used at close its potential and its nice to know we have some headroom on all channels when we need it.
Its over kill 99.9% but...




Edited by brwsaw (04/11/13 03:10 PM)
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#391912 - 04/11/13 03:36 PM Re: ADA1000 3ch vs XPA-3 vs three Outlaw M2200 [Re: TroyD]
J. B. Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/19/11
Posts: 1274
Loc: Quebec, Canada
all well designed amps, whatever the class, (except class B, which is not used anymore) will put out a signal free of distortion.

the only thing they do is amplify low level signals in order to drive speakers, using different classes to do this.

the main requisite is that you have enough power - Watts - to attain satisfactory loudness levels.
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#391915 - 04/11/13 05:10 PM Re: ADA1000 3ch vs XPA-3 vs three Outlaw M2200 [Re: TroyD]
Dduval Offline
devotee

Registered: 01/14/09
Posts: 349
Get the ADA-1000 and don't look back...you can always sell it later if your needs/desire change.

Dana
_________________________
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#391916 - 04/11/13 05:18 PM Re: ADA1000 3ch vs XPA-3 vs three Outlaw M2200 [Re: TroyD]
J. B. Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/19/11
Posts: 1274
Loc: Quebec, Canada
if you ever need more channels, the Axiom amps can be upgraded.
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#391925 - 04/11/13 09:37 PM Re: ADA1000 3ch vs XPA-3 vs three Outlaw M2200 [Re: TroyD]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10412
Troy, the first suggestion would be that the present consideration of any of those units is premature. When you get your M80s and set them up with your Pioneer you may find that it's more than sufficient.

Some of the stuff you read sounds like utter nonsense from someone not very knowledgeable about amplifier technology. The bottom line is whether the unit puts out enough voltage for the required maximum sound level with the speaker being used, does so with flat response over the audible range, and with inaudibly low noise and distortion. That's it; "class" can't change this. In particular, the statement about class D being for a PA system is absurd.
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#391947 - 04/12/13 06:03 PM Re: ADA1000 3ch vs XPA-3 vs three Outlaw M2200 [Re: TroyD]
cb919 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/17/09
Posts: 1041
Loc: Ottawa, Canada
Originally Posted By: troyd
... I have a friggin Pioneer VSX-1525-K ( sc-32 equiv. ) long story, but that's what I got class D amp.
...


I understand wanting more power - even if you don't use it it's nice to know it's there. Why ride a crotch rocket or own a Porsche when the speed limit is only 65?

Curious though, what's the beef with class D amp design?

Sorry, I have no experience to help with your actual question.
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In/On Wall 500 w M2 Center Channel

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#391988 - 04/13/13 10:39 PM Re: ADA1000 3ch vs XPA-3 vs three Outlaw M2200 [Re: cb919]
TroyD Offline
devotee

Registered: 02/17/04
Posts: 302
Originally Posted By: cb919
Originally Posted By: troyd
... I have a friggin Pioneer VSX-1525-K ( sc-32 equiv. ) long story, but that's what I got class D amp.
...


I understand wanting more power - even if you don't use it it's nice to know it's there. Why ride a crotch rocket or own a Porsche when the speed limit is only 65?

Curious though, what's the beef with class D amp design?

Sorry, I have no experience to help with your actual question.


It's not the Class D I don't like ....it's the Pioneer ..;)

I just need to turn the volumn up to oh say 0db for movies.

I just want to know I have enough power , when it comes to running 7 channels.

Plus, everywhere I read and in reviews every one that has hooked up a 3 ch amp and let the A/V reciever run the surrounds, say how much more detail and clarity and better sound they now have.

Is this not true ? I am looking at the Anthem MRX500 upgrade amd was going to get one of these amps to run the front three and let the Anthem take care of the rears.
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#391990 - 04/13/13 10:55 PM Re: ADA1000 3ch vs XPA-3 vs three Outlaw M2200 [Re: TroyD]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10412
Troy, no it's not true if the comparison was done with other factors being held equal, so that a false impression isn't given. In particular, if the volume level was precisely the same(not just the same setting on the volume control, which can result in different sound levels with different amplifiers), there's nothing that can in reality produce greater "detail...clarity", etc. If enough voltage is being output by the amplifier in the receiver for the sound level in question, that's all that can be done.
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#391992 - 04/13/13 11:12 PM Re: ADA1000 3ch vs XPA-3 vs three Outlaw M2200 [Re: TroyD]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10400
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Originally Posted By: troyd
Is this not true ? I am looking at the Anthem MRX500 upgrade amd was going to get one of these amps to run the front three and let the Anthem take care of the rears.


Was there supposed to be a link to an external amp somewhere in there? The MRX is an avr like your PIO, so not much difference, you would need an external 3ch. amp to do as you are suggesting.
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#391994 - 04/13/13 11:29 PM Re: ADA1000 3ch vs XPA-3 vs three Outlaw M2200 [Re: jakewash]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10412
Jason, since Troy's off the board now, I'll note that he's proposing to use one of the separate amplifiers named in the thread title in combination with the MRX500.
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#392006 - 04/14/13 07:44 PM Re: ADA1000 3ch vs XPA-3 vs three Outlaw M2200 [Re: TroyD]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10400
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
There it was hiding in plain sight, thanks John.
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#392100 - 04/17/13 02:51 PM Re: ADA1000 3ch vs XPA-3 vs three Outlaw M2200 [Re: jakewash]
TroyD Offline
devotee

Registered: 02/17/04
Posts: 302
Originally Posted By: jakewash
Originally Posted By: troyd
Is this not true ? I am looking at the Anthem MRX500 upgrade amd was going to get one of these amps to run the front three and let the Anthem take care of the rears.


Was there supposed to be a link to an external amp somewhere in there? The MRX is an avr like your PIO, so not much difference, you would need an external 3ch. amp to do as you are suggesting.


Yup, I did order the Anthem MRX500. I will give this a shot as JohnK said. However, I am thinking I want a 3 ch or three mono amps for my front three.

I just want more gas in the tank and all reviews and reading I do, everyone says how much better is sounds with an external amp running the fronts.
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#392102 - 04/17/13 03:26 PM Re: ADA1000 3ch vs XPA-3 vs three Outlaw M2200 [Re: TroyD]
Socketman Online   content
connoisseur

Registered: 07/12/09
Posts: 1215
Loc: Whitehorse YT
If ya got the yearnin and the money I say go for it. I bought an xpa 3 for my m80's and don't regret it one bit. That's what this hobby is all about, good for the economy too. Enjoy
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#392117 - 04/17/13 10:36 PM Re: ADA1000 3ch vs XPA-3 vs three Outlaw M2200 [Re: TroyD]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10412
Very good, Troy; the MRX500 should serve you well.

Using the "more gas in the tank" attempted analogy though, indicates that you may not be grasping the concept. A car doesn't run any better with ten gallons in the tank than with one. If the tank was completely empty, then there's a difference. If the amplifier in the receiver can supply enough voltage for the needed volume, there's no benefit in buying another unit with a higher voltage supply which would just sit there partly unused.
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#392219 - 04/19/13 11:00 PM Re: ADA1000 3ch vs XPA-3 vs three Outlaw M2200 [Re: JohnK]
TroyD Offline
devotee

Registered: 02/17/04
Posts: 302
Originally Posted By: JohnK
Very good, Troy; the MRX500 should serve you well.

Using the "more gas in the tank" attempted analogy though, indicates that you may not be grasping the concept. A car doesn't run any better with ten gallons in the tank than with one. If the tank was completely empty, then there's a difference. If the amplifier in the receiver can supply enough voltage for the needed volume, there's no benefit in buying another unit with a higher voltage supply which would just sit there partly unused.


not enough power. I am tunring the reciever to about oh say +5 db there not a whole lot left. It has the volume display onscreen and the power bar is about 80 - 85% up.

I would love it and feel more comfortable if I was oh say about 30%


Edited by troyd (04/19/13 11:01 PM)
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#392226 - 04/20/13 12:16 AM Re: ADA1000 3ch vs XPA-3 vs three Outlaw M2200 [Re: TroyD]
CatBrat Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 5931
Loc: Milky Way Galaxy
I always see JohnK as a strictly by the numbers type of guy. If the numbers or chart says it's good then it has to be good, or good enough. Myself, I prefer to throw away all the numbers and charts and let my senses tell me whether it's good or not.

That's why I shun Denon/Audyssey as inferior to Pioneer/MCACC of near equal value. That's also why I have 6 speaker boxes surrounding the TV. More sounds better. Although 2 would probably be good enough, numbers wise.

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#392230 - 04/20/13 01:02 AM Re: ADA1000 3ch vs XPA-3 vs three Outlaw M2200 [Re: CatBrat]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16297
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
I think your theory would fall apart in a blind listening session. smile
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#392244 - 04/20/13 05:08 PM Re: ADA1000 3ch vs XPA-3 vs three Outlaw M2200 [Re: TroyD]
CatBrat Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 5931
Loc: Milky Way Galaxy
I doubt it.

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#392331 - 04/22/13 11:49 PM Re: ADA1000 3ch vs XPA-3 vs three Outlaw M2200 [Re: TroyD]
AdrianD Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/09/12
Posts: 85
Loc: Maple, Ontario
Originally Posted By: troyd
Yup, I did order the Anthem MRX500. I will give this a shot as JohnK said. However, I am thinking I want a 3 ch or three mono amps for my front three.

I just want more gas in the tank and all reviews and reading I do, everyone says how much better is sounds with an external amp running the fronts.

If you like to listen/view music and movies at a loud volume you are on the right path. The sound itself being "better" is another issue which I find highly subjective and I try to stay away if I can.
More powerful amp vs anemic receiver is a different story; we can go with the car analogy, although I think I posted something similar in another thread.
CAR 1 - 120 HP and 160 Km/h top speed
CAR 2 - 300 HP and 280 Km/h top speed

a) Cruising on a highway at 120 Km/h means using the car at 75%. For CAR 2 it means ~43%; which one do you think will last more?

b) 5 persons and same luggage in both cars; which one do you think will perform better? Which one you think will consume less gas? NOTE for those not believing: there is test done by Top Gear between a Toyota Prius and a BMW M3; the beemer turned out to consume less gas than the hybrid car driven at the same speed. Google it.

Take the above with a grain of salt as this is only my personal opinion, but since you asked on a forum... I though I give it a go smile.
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#392352 - 04/23/13 07:17 PM Re: ADA1000 3ch vs XPA-3 vs three Outlaw M2200 [Re: jakewash]
TroyD Offline
devotee

Registered: 02/17/04
Posts: 302
Originally Posted By: jakewash
Originally Posted By: troyd
Is this not true ? I am looking at the Anthem MRX500 upgrade amd was going to get one of these amps to run the front three and let the Anthem take care of the rears.


Was there supposed to be a link to an external amp somewhere in there? The MRX is an avr like your PIO, so not much difference, you would need an external 3ch. amp to do as you are suggesting.


This is exactly what I was thinking of doing.
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#392353 - 04/23/13 07:23 PM Re: ADA1000 3ch vs XPA-3 vs three Outlaw M2200 [Re: JohnK]
TroyD Offline
devotee

Registered: 02/17/04
Posts: 302
Originally Posted By: JohnK
Very good, Troy; the MRX500 should serve you well.

Using the "more gas in the tank" attempted analogy though, indicates that you may not be grasping the concept. A car doesn't run any better with ten gallons in the tank than with one. If the tank was completely empty, then there's a difference. If the amplifier in the receiver can supply enough voltage for the needed volume, there's no benefit in buying another unit with a higher voltage supply which would just sit there partly unused.


Ok a little off on that analogy. How about My Hyundai Sonata is a great car. I can drive from Bridgewater to Halifax easily everyday. However, I like to go a little bit faster and some of the hills are quite steep, so my car stuggles. It keeps the speed up buy sputters and I don't quite have the spped at 70 mph only 50 mph and I want to go 70 mph.

Then one day, I am passing a sports car and I am at 70 mph, however as I top a crest a car is coming in the other lane towards me. I have to floor it to get by and out of the way, but hey my car dies at 80 mph and sputters and well we know the result. Either I crash or let my foot off and put the breaks on and pull back in behind the car I was passing. wink
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#392354 - 04/23/13 07:28 PM Re: ADA1000 3ch vs XPA-3 vs three Outlaw M2200 [Re: TroyD]
TroyD Offline
devotee

Registered: 02/17/04
Posts: 302
Yeh, I was thinking of one of the three amps. Use my MRX as a pre pro. The MRX has enough for the surrounds, but I want to use one of the three amps and connect the front L/C/R speakers to this.
Just thought it would be more clear, more juice not alot but enough to get me that I won't be clipping the MRX. my MRX goes from -75 to +15db. I am about +5db on the dial. I am thinking if I had a 300w per channel amp hooked up to the MRX I may have to turn the dial now to about say -20db on the dial.
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#392356 - 04/23/13 10:04 PM Re: ADA1000 3ch vs XPA-3 vs three Outlaw M2200 [Re: TroyD]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10412
Troy, irrelevant analogies to cars aren't helpful and just confuse the issue when audio technology is being discussed. The setting on the volume control(85% or whatever)isn't directly measuring the amount of power which is being used and wouldn't necessarily change one bit when an amplifier with a higher max was substituted. The actual use at a given instant at that setting might be close to zero(if the program material is quiet at that point)or might be 100% if an unusually high peak was occurring. It isn't something which should be a matter of concern.
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#392360 - 04/24/13 06:40 AM Re: ADA1000 3ch vs XPA-3 vs three Outlaw M2200 [Re: TroyD]
J. B. Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/19/11
Posts: 1274
Loc: Quebec, Canada
the "more gas in the tank" isn't a good analogy; a much better one would be a "more powerful engine" so that passing another car does not take 5 minutes but is easily done. the spare power is there for purposes like this.
this is still not a very good analogy though.

what one really needs is enough amp power for any occasion that might present itself: sound pressure level peaks in music or movies.
not enough power for one's needs means the peaks will be clipped, distorted.
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#392361 - 04/24/13 07:28 AM Re: ADA1000 3ch vs XPA-3 vs three Outlaw M2200 [Re: TroyD]
CatBrat Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 5931
Loc: Milky Way Galaxy
A Toyota FJ Cruiser with Supercharger.

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